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    Posted: 11 June 2019 at 10:51pm
Evening Guys.

Just returned home from a pickup of some used boxes i have bought. 
And amongst them, there was a set of MTH30. Unloaded.
Solid build and in very good condition. 
Are these worth the time and money to load, or should i just use them as trash bins?

And what to load them with today?
The recommended PD is a No-go, so what else is out there? :)
PD, B&C, 18sound, Beyma, Fane and RCF is easy to get. 

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2019 at 8:39pm
Well, after a little searching around, i found out that the 12SB30 have been suberseded by the PD 123C01, and after a little comparing, those two drivers looks to be exactly the same. Or am i missing something?

Also found some writing on the big interweb, about Beyma 12LX60V2 being quite nice.
But havent found any proof of that, besides that post. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2019 at 12:25pm
I think Rich Ind St on here used the Beyma 12LX60 on some boxes some years ago and thought very well of them.
I had some manifold subs of a Beyma design that used the 18LX60.
If you Google "mth30 beyma 12lx60" you'll get some vids and links to a number of threads here where the cab and driver are discussed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2019 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by norty303 norty303 wrote:

I think Rich Ind St on here used the Beyma 12LX60 on some boxes some years ago and thought very well of them.
I had some manifold subs of a Beyma design that used the 18LX60.
If you Google "mth30 beyma 12lx60" you'll get some vids and links to a number of threads here where the cab and driver are discussed.


Hi Norty.

Thats just those threads i am talking about :) 
I would prefer the Beyma 4" coil over the PD 3".
But havent been able to see any sims of the two drivers compared to each other, so a bit hard to tell if the Beyma would be a better choice :)
Anyhow, both the PD 12SB30 and Beyma 12LX60 are very hard to obtain.
Now we got PD 123C01 as a direct replacement and Beyma 12LX60v2.

Have also been looking at more modern drivers, with higher powerhandling, but when comparing prices, i doesnt seem to find any better suggestions than PD 123C01 and Beyma 12LX60v2.
They seem to give the best bang for the buck.

But afaik it was the Beyma 12LX60 he used. 12LX60v2 are not completly the same driver. There are some TS differences.
I am not able to sim anything as i am only running from tablet and phone at this moment.


If its the dual 18 bandpass, magnet-to-magnet design your mean, i know that one also.
Pretty good for such a compact enclosure.

Cheers




Edited by FOO - 14 June 2019 at 1:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote godathunder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2019 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by norty303 norty303 wrote:

I think Rich Ind St on here used the Beyma 12LX60 on some boxes some years ago and thought very well of them.
I had some manifold subs of a Beyma design that used the 18LX60.
If you Google "mth30 beyma 12lx60" you'll get some vids and links to a number of threads here where the cab and driver are discussed.

iirc him and james were using them in those decware wicked one scalable horn bandpass things that seemed popular for a while. have never knowingly heard that particular combo but the lx series were really good sub drivers although I guess probably superceded now since they are a 20 year old design
LOUDER THAN LOUD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2019 at 2:34pm
Yes they might be superseded by many drivers. I think it was in 2008 or 2009 the mk2 hit the market.
So only 10 years for the mk.2 :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote studio45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2019 at 6:44pm
I have a pair of MTH30 and have at various times loaded them with PD 12.SB30, Mackenzie 12-300, Fane Sovereign 12-500LF and Fane Sovereign 12-200. 

I'd like to say there was a vast difference in output between each driver but there really wasn't! 

Those boxes could get bass out of a paper plate I swear down. 

I've also spent some time modelling them and then measuring the real ones, and come to the conclusion that Hornresp doesn't model them well at all. The simmed output is super peaky and looks like crap, but IRL it is much smoother and goes deeper (45Hz solid). The simmed impedance graph is also not very similar to the real one. There are three peaks, but they are not the same height or at the same frequencies as the sim. This is using Marc.O's specified Hornresp inputs.

The 12LX60 is a great driver but not really current any more. Rich had a hell of a time getting recones out of Beyma, I think in the end they sent him the wrong ones THREE times. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2019 at 10:39pm
Thank you for some great info there :)

Seems you have done your part of the homework on those MTH30. 
Regarding the Beyma 12lx60, they do still make the v2 of it. And it looks to be quite good still, compared to todays standards. 
But dont know if it sims like the v1. 

Maybe you can help me with some sims of the MTH30 with a couple if different drivers?

Beyma 12LX60 v2
B&C 12NBX100
B&C 12NW100
B&C 12TBX100

Its down to these four drivers. 
I have excluded the PD 123C01, because of the 3" coil.

We got some superb service on Beyma here, so thats not a concern for me :) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2019 at 3:10pm
Well... I took a long night and tried to learn a bit about hornresp, and with the help of some old input data from the big interweb, i found out how to sim MTH30 in hornresp. I think hahaha :D
And it actually looks like some sims somebody else have made. I compared a sim with PD 12SB30 up against my own sim with the same driver. And they looked identical.
So i guess i am doing something right :)

Been busy today and compared Beyma 12LX60v2 with PD123C01, 18sound 12LW1400, B&C 12TBX100, 12NW100 and 12NBX100.
Beyma, PD and 18sound are really close. 

I have attached some screenshots of my "work".
Grey plot is the Beyma on all of them.
I actually prefer what i see with the Beyma, PD and 18sound. More flat'ish respons, and especially the Beyma got a big advantage around 80hz.
But can't argue against the fact that all the B&C drivers, especially 12NW100 and 12TBX100 do got some grunt at 55hz.
To my untrained eye, these two drivers are identical besides the magnet.

Price differences and weight are not an issue here.

One thing i do not like, is the connections on 12NBX100. I cant stand those, and really dont understand why someone would use those! Ermm

And some sims...


Grey: Beyma 12LX60v2
Black: PD 123C01


Grey: Beyma 12LX60v2
Black: 18sound 12LW1400


Grey: Beyma 12LX60v2
Black: B&C 12NBX100


Grey: Beyma 12LX60v2
Black: B&C 12NW100


Grey: Beyma 12LX60v2
Black: B&C 12TBX100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2019 at 5:11pm

The Beyma 12LX60v2 is the driver the Tham-12 was developed with, and other than the MTH30 having a dB or so extra output the response for the two enclosures looks extremely similar when using this driver.

This is interesting considering the MTH is over 25% larger than the Tham they both have almost exactly the same output.



Edited by APW - 16 June 2019 at 5:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2019 at 6:17pm
Dont know how interesting it is, really.
We all know that a bigger box usually means bigger boom :)
More boom doesnt come for free, usually?

Tham 12 and MTH30 isnt what i would call big boxes. 25% isnt that big of a increase when they are this small.
But i catch your drift :)

Anyways, if we look at the degree of carpentry skills needed to do both boxes, i would dare to say MTH30 is quite a bit more newbie friendly. The build difficulty is a bit more advanced on Tham12. 
So we might be talking about a simple case of R&D.

But only my 5 cent :)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2019 at 6:45pm

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the MTH-30.... both the Tham and the MTH are good proven designs and have very good output considering their small size.


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