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Next best thing to a Pre-Amp

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levyte357- View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 March 2018 at 12:32pm

The illustrious Klark Teknik -DN410 5 independent band, Stereo parametric

Not even the Rane Stereo Parametric has the features, or sounds as good as this..

https://forum.speakerplans.com/klark-teknik-dn-410-stereo-5-band-parametric-eq_topic101391.html

I personally prefer this, as opposed to Reggae pre-amps for shaping mid tops, as is silky smooth and simple, into decent LMS.

Only Pre amp I know of, that had variable Q on 5 bands, is the custom unit, I own. LOL



Edited by levyte357- - 05 March 2018 at 12:41pm
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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RiddimKid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RiddimKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2018 at 7:21pm
Is that what King shiloh and that other roots sound used to use, can't remember their name. They had loads of Klark Teknik equipment. 

Was looking for one years ago and gave up LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2018 at 7:45pm
Shhhh!!! They're expensive enough without you telling everyone about them! ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ILuvDub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2018 at 7:16am
I have one of these and I love it! Very easy to tune on the fly. Lots of control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2018 at 9:24am
Not managed to sell it yet then? Good luck with the advertising.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2018 at 10:25am
+ 1 lev , i use mixer ,rane eq and rane para into lms , much more versatility than a pre and better imho,esp as i use 2 diff kinds of kicks and mids at times so need alignment features etc  tho i love the look of pres esp the tubbys ones with the arc vu leds :) 
TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM
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Roman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 7:50pm
I hope your right. I am looking at getting a stereo parametric and the Klark Teknik DN410 is the one mentioned on here as being a preferred unit.

I have been offered a Klark Teknik DN800 4 way crossover. I was reading the manual yesterday. It has limiters in each band. Mute switches, they should let me cut out the subs for that bring in the bass party trick.

So my set up will be:
Audio sources into a Midas Venice 320 mixer. Into a parametric eq into the crossover.

Hopefully I can sound decent without the religiously advocated 'reggae pre amp'.
Hopefully I can get the highly desired 'round' bass.

I've got (8) BGW VX660 amps and (4) VX440 amps so far. I'm getting some more too.
To power (16) 18 inch subs, (8) 15 inch low mids, (4) JBL2445H horn drivers and (8) 2404 JBL tweeters.

It has been stated that a reggae pre allows eqi'ng of each frequency band separately, which I read to mean after the crossover. But am assuming that eq'ing before a crossover means your only eq'ing that band anyway because of the filtering in the crossover. So isn't it equivalent in theory?

Reading you praise of the Klark Teknik DN410 for highs etc is motivating me.


Edited by Roman - 04 November 2019 at 7:54pm
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valve head777 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 9:18pm
Horse for courses. If I remember correctly, you know of someone with a reggae pre, so you could a/b your preferred equipment and choose what suits you. Sound quality and ability to be a showman is subjective. Knowing what you want to achieve is the first step. Some believe that ultimate hifi quality in a soundsystem dance situation detracts from the vibes and energy and excitement. For others it's the exact opposite. How eq interacts with the xover is to some important. I don't like adjusting the low mid and find when dropping the bass the bass has become honky due to upper bass being subject to those tweaks for instance.
There are many ways of running sound. Personally I find a decent reggae pre does and gives me the Ultimate control for the style I play and no amount of outboard will  mirror this. That's just me though. Others are  mixer oriented and have different needs.
If you can, play with all scenarios then do. Only then can you make your decision.
My 2ps worth












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Roman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

Horse for courses. If I remember correctly, you know of someone with a reggae pre, so you could a/b your preferred equipment and choose what suits you. Sound quality and ability to be a showman is subjective. Knowing what you want to achieve is the first step.

I am starting to get a clearer picture of what I want. The ability to perform live dubs and have some musicians like horn players and vocalists perform versions, IOW microphones into the 32 channel Midas Venice 320. Multi tracks for dubbing from a laptop and audio interface

Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

 Some believe that ultimate hifi quality in a soundsystem dance situation detracts from the vibes and energy and excitement. For others it's the exact opposite.

Out of the roughly 6 sound systems putting on dances here, I like the one with the best sound quality. Clear and high quality, no distortion, smooth but restrained highs, Soft round bass from scoops etc. A real high quality sound system from A-Z. Other sounds that lack clarity and sound distorted changes the experience for me to lacklustre. I think fidelity is a safer goal for me than lesser sound quality. I've been reading about hi fi phono pre amps. I wouldn't want to spend audiophile money on one though. But if I can improve on my Vestax PMC07 DJ mixer and get bang for buck, it seems a potentially sensible upgrade. I wonder how the 'reggae pre' phono pre amps would compare to hi fi offerings?
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

 How eq interacts with the xover is to some important. I don't like adjusting the low mid and find when dropping the bass the bass has become honky due to upper bass being subject to those tweaks for instance.
Are you saying you've operated a sound with an EQ before a crossover and found it different to a 'reggae pre' where the EQ is apparently after the crossover on each band?
I interpret your described scenario as, you boosted the low mids on a parametric EQ before a crossover and then muted the subs band, then you dislike the sound of the boosted low mids on the bass sound with the subs muted. And if you had boosted the low mids on the low mid band of a reggae pre which EQ's after the crossover then you wouldn't have suffered the unpleasant honky low mid bass boost?
Is this something you actually have done? It just seems to me that EQ'ing before a crossover or after should in theory be the same result. When I think of how EQ'ing before the crossover means the frequencies I am boosting or cutting are only going to go to the band that they are in. I suppose you could EQ frequencies that cover more than one crossover band. But then that is user experience of what fequencies to EQ perhaps?
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

There are many ways of running sound. Personally I find a decent reggae pre does and gives me the Ultimate control for the style I play and no amount of outboard will  mirror this.
No amount of outboard could mirror a 'reggae pre'? That seems hard to believe. Perhaps not in as convenient a package.
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

 That's just me though. Others are  mixer oriented and have different needs.
If you can, play with all scenarios then do. Only then can you make your decision.
My 2ps worth
Do you know of any sound systems that don't use dedicated 'reggae pre amps'? How do they sound?













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valve head777 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 11:31pm
Briefly, I have used different pre amps from different builders, vintage to modern, have used outboard with a xover to attempt what a pre does with some success and have heard soundsystems using mixers and outboard etc as well as standard pre amps.
As regards to interaction between frequency bands, the dB per octave slope is important, I prefer a steep slope for cutoff characteristics. As Lev and Paulus was suggesting in the previous posts, an Lms will do this. As for clarity, clean mid and tops is a given. No one likes harsh or unintelligible sound, however, our brain equates a certain type of, for want of a different discription, distortion, as loud and exciting and, if done subtly, brings an added dimension to the entertainment side of a session. Your discription of round warm bass is suggestive of a certain type of distortion albeit pleasent distortion.
b
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2019 at 12:50am
So the 'reggae pre' adds some pleasant distortion to the bass making it round and warm? It suggests there is a difference between the 'reggae pre' EQ and other off the shelf stuff like the Klark Teknik DN410.
So far my plan is to output my Midas Venice 320 32 channel analogue mixer into a Klark Teknik DN410 parametric and then into a Klark Teknik DN800 4 way crossover. 
Interesting to read in the DN800 manual that each band has a limiter to protect the amps from clipping. And 360 degree phase adjustment. Just reading about getting the phase of each band aligned for maximum level and flat frequency response.

You prefer sharp filter slope on the crossover points. After reading this I looked up the specs of the KT DN800 Frequency division filters .

Butterworth, Bessel or Linkwitz-Riley 12, 18 or 24dB/Oct.

I don't know yet which ones the unit I am being offered has. But you recommend the 24db filters?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2019 at 1:11am
This is it you see... Depends on what floats your boat. I personally would experiment with 24 for sub definitely, and perhaps 18 for mid and tops or mid, high mid and tops.  my taste dictates high degree of separation between bass and the rest. I hate hearing even an inkling of low mid/upper bass through the subs unless i specifically want that as an effect.
Going back to the reggae pre, I've seen/heard a good operator mimic the sound manipulation heard on classic tunes engineered by King Tubby etc, through their own skill as an operator and the equipment being flexible enough for that to be a possibility. That to me is what a pre allows. It's not just about tuning the pre in.
Your proposed set up should allow you to do this but whether it's easy, as in all the controls are readily accessible for on the fly dubbing/mixing is the point/question. A good pre was designed by people who knew what possibilities were desired by the operator.
Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.
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