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nilsonsound - an ongoing story

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nilspixel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 August 2021 at 5:03pm

Some time has passed since i started my 12v project. Afterall it's an ongoing constant learning process :)

What i came up with so far:

2x THAM15 with PD 15.50

8Ω 600W RMS

2x Self-designed 12" Cabinets with Emince Delta Pro 12A
8Ω 300W RMS

2x Fairly Cheap Sica z009442 +Q07032B in self built cabinets
AES Power     16 W above 3 kHz
Program Power     32 W above 3 kHz
Sensitivity     105.5 dB (Q07020A)
Frequency Range     1000 Hz ÷ 19 kHz (Q07020A)
Recomm. Xover Frequency     above 2500 Hz

1x GreenCeel 12V 90AH AGM Battery

1x Pioneer GMD 8740
4x100W Rms 4Ω
2x300W RMS 4Ω

1x 4x4 DSP t.rack
The setup looks something like that. every speaker is wired in parallel so they are 4Ω.
Watts:
Thams get 150W each
Mids get 50W each
Highs also 50W each


Pro:
  • It actually works!
  • It looks nice (hehe :D)
  • My calculations for the mids kind of work out pretty good.
  • I can get around town with my bicycle!
  • Medium volume is nice.
Con:
  • More Bass! Reggae music always asks for more bass! So this is a point where i'd like to make changes. Give my thams more output power.
  • Better highs. The cheap things on top are on the one side fairly cheap and small. On the other side all high tones sound kind of cheap which sometimes is a pain in the ears...
  • More voulme would be nice!
Changes:
  • I thought about a new high-speaker. Instead of two small shitty ones i'd go for a BSM 4554 in combination with a B&C ME90 Horn.
  • More power means another amp. Here i'm not sure wheter its best to get a mono amp or a 2channel amp bridged to one channel.  For example i found this Eton 450.2 Amp which gives me bridged 908W RMS on 4Ω. So i could get around 450W for each of my thams out of it. Moneywise it's more power for less money in comparison with other monoblocks. Whats the point?
  • More Amps means different battery. I thought about getting a LiFePo4 100AH. Is there a need to get powercaps when using LiFePo4?


Edited by nilspixel - 27 August 2021 at 2:53pm
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Jack1991 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack1991 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2021 at 10:59am
Looking good mate! How do you find towing it by bicycle is it hard work?
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nilspixel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nilspixel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2021 at 4:21pm
thanks mate!
Its fine on flat streets. When it comes to hills its quit hard without ebike power. Fortunately i have a motor on my cycle ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infrasound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2021 at 6:13pm
Given you achieve 150W out of your current amplifier then the increase to 450W is a decent 5dB more. You'll be much closer to justifying such a chonky driver at that point.

There's another 4dB available if you had a horn extension, equivalent to a 1100W amplifier at that point, without the extra power consumption. Could fold it up and 'deploy' when wanted.

Also, I'm sure you've checked - but given the overlap currently between your mids and the Thams, the phase is well worth getting dialled in.

Given the SPL you'll be at, the 4554 is likely overkill - but it sounds great!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nilspixel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2021 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by infrasound infrasound wrote:

Given you achieve 150W out of your current amplifier then the increase to 450W is a decent 5dB more. You'll be much closer to justifying such a chonky driver at that point.

Yes, i think i go for this Eton Amp. Does someone has experience on running two amps from one battery?

Originally posted by infrasound infrasound wrote:

There's another 4dB available if you had a horn extension, equivalent to a 1100W amplifier at that point, without the extra power consumption. Could fold it up and 'deploy' when wanted.
Horn extension sounds good, is there any information to be found?


Originally posted by infrasound infrasound wrote:

Also, I'm sure you've checked - but given the overlap currently between your mids and the Thams, the phase is well worth getting dialled in.

yeah, thats back from when i was doing some weird experiences... :D

Originally posted by infrasound infrasound wrote:

Given the SPL you'll be at, the 4554 is likely overkill - but it sounds great!
You mean smaller ones fit better?





Edited by nilspixel - 26 August 2021 at 4:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2021 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by infrasound infrasound wrote:


There's another 4dB available if you had a horn extension, equivalent to a 1100W amplifier at that point, without the extra power consumption. Could fold it up and 'deploy' when wanted.



Tapped horns (and other horns) need some consideration for a horn extension to ensure the internal flare rate is maintained, and the driver offset created isn’t going to cause a horrible notch in the response by pushing it out of 1/4 lambda.

You can however get a fairly good ~3 dB broadband increase with any stack of subwoofers by making a portable baffle extension that increases the cabinets’ combined frontal area to 3 times the original value. Some flat pieces of 18 mm or greater thickness wood with fold-out outriggers do the job just fine, especially if they’re braced at the back to reduce resonance.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/184986-horn-extender-wave-guide-th.html

This is, of course, at the expense of omnidirectional bass coverage - may or may not be a good thing for a portable battery system.

You can even put a logo or some art on them.

Edited by toastyghost - 26 August 2021 at 3:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2021 at 1:38am
Mostly harmless.... except if catering is shut.

Solar Sound System Shennanigans..http://diyhifi.biz/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infrasound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2021 at 1:57pm
I tried tempting Jack quite a bit in this thread! http://https://forum.speakerplans.com/lockdown-audio-a-12v-3way-small-rig-build_topic105202_page1.html

I would be happy to strap together a basic sim to show the size with an extension, but I am far from an acoustic engineer. I'd be more than happy to help with the mechanical design though.


Re. 4554 - it's a 1.4" designed to do 1kHz+ at high SPL (which you will never reach, being heavily limited by the THAMs)

Better IMO to go with a 1" driver such as BMS 5530ND mated to a PH-3220. Cheaper drivers are available such as B&Cs 1"ers.

That combo is both cheaper, sweeter in the HF, better horizontal dispersion and over 2Kg lighter Star


Edited by infrasound - 27 August 2021 at 3:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nilspixel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2021 at 2:51pm
thanks for your explanation ;) i will consider it for my future plans!

can someone say something about Stetsom preamps? they seem to be fairly cheap for a lot of power.. i don't trust them for now..

what they state:
Power @ 12.6V Bridge 4 Ohms1 x 1000W RMS
Harmonic Distortion 0,4%... quit high isn't it?

another one, perfectly matches my 600W RMS
Power @ 12.6V Bridge 4 Ohms2 x 600W RMS
Harmonic Distortion 0,9%.....(???)




Edited by nilspixel - 27 August 2021 at 3:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infrasound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2021 at 3:57pm
Thumbs Up

I only know a little of car amplifiers, but those small Brazilian amps (don't know why specifically Brazil) have a particular reputation (I hear) for over-inflating their specifications. 

If you can find someone who's actually benched some, might be your best bet. Perhaps trawling some car audio forums / YT.

Although, arguably efficiency is just as important - but that data is far harder to come by. Maybe the only thorough approach here could be to buy a few, run 1/6 pink noise through them to match SPL and measure their power consumption. Not a quick answer though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nilspixel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2021 at 11:48am
yesterday evening i realized that at a higher volume you hardly feel bass anymore. do the thams get outplayed? is it a power problem?

i forgot to mention that for now i only have one 15" installed because of delivery delays...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Found some nice informative videos for calculating all that power needs within a system... its really basic but i needed someone to explain it to me :P

So idealy lets say i run on 14,4 Volts (maybe with some power adapter in the future).

Lets say i use a Rage 1200.2 and my Pioneer 8704:

Single
1200W/14,4V = 83,34A/0,8 =104,2A
600W/14,4V = 41,7A/0,8 = 52,1A

Both
1200Watts RMS + 600Watts Rms at 14,4V = 1800W
1800W/14,4V = 125 A
125A/0,8 = 156,26 A

So my powersurce should be able to do that..



Edited by nilspixel - 28 August 2021 at 1:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2021 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by nilspixel nilspixel wrote:

yesterday evening i realized that at a higher volume you hardly feel bass anymore. do the thams get outplayed? is it a power problem?

i forgot to mention that for now i only have one 15" installed because of delivery delays...

--

The empty cab might eat some of your output......
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