old EV MT4 designs? |
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Strange Daze
Old Croc Joined: 14 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2861 |
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understood....but with respect.... I DO want some of these cabs and they still are more than a 'pretty good system'......
Im not fussed about weight, as a lot of our gigs next year are outdoors and on a bigger scale than we've done in the past.
(when ya carrying kit half way up a mountain to do a proper exclusive party, its a tad different to rocking up at a festy n rolling the kit out of a tail lift)...
peace,
N
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norty303
Old Croc Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Eastbourne Status: Offline Points: 8806 |
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Someone pointed out that the plans for the sub didn't look right a little while back, but thats because the piccy isn't to scale, the proportions are wrong, but the numbers are right.
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My laser stuff: Frikkin Lasers
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Tom Umney
Registered User Joined: 26 February 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4954 |
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Peter Moller
Old Croc Joined: 26 December 2005 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 2531 |
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real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption )
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JD01
Young Croc Joined: 23 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 819 |
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MTL4s are heavy, don't sound good (unless you are into boomy, non-transient bass), don't play up to 160Hz (there simply was an audible gap) and don't play that much below 55Hz. Loud 60Hz dance party bass, yeah. Nothing more, nothing less. There are much much better designs and much much better things you can do with four 18" speakers. If you insinst on building them, use Oberton 18XB700 instead of the crappy EV original speakers with the 2,5" VC.
The tops mids are quite nice if you get them with the original 10" speakers. Throw out the MHF and HF and put some modern drivers on modern horns there. Edited by JD01 - 08 November 2006 at 9:28pm |
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Strange Daze
Old Croc Joined: 14 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2861 |
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those are some rather sweeping non productive comments.........
Allow me to sweep back.
...yea if your puny and weak. Even the wedding DJ in the picture above seemed to manage.
.....surelly it like everything else in he music world is OPINION.
.......Good........I wouldnt want them to. I want bass.........not mid. I have some decent kick bins to fill from 100-200hz.
.......Again.....good. Most of our gigs next year are Psy Trance. Most of the bass of which exists between 50-100hz.
...........DA DA DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA..............
(drum roll)...
Its ALMOST.........just ALMOST like ive thought this through eh JD01?
:) :) :) :)
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Robbo
Old Croc Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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The MTL4/MTH4 system is one of the finest sounding rigs that you can get--WHEN SET UP CORRECTLY---the biggest problem is that SSE Hire sold loads of these cabinets to clubs,small PA hire companies and other people who did not have a clue what they are doing with them---so you now have lots of these stacks in venues all over the UK and about 90% of them sound aweful---JBs in Dudley being a classic example---and this is why so many people sl*g them off.
If they are run with the old BSS Omnidrive(2 in 8 out) with the correct Xover points and steep slope hi-pass filters set at 40hz then it is like listening to a huge hi fi system and you will rarely blow any bass drivers which has always been the biggest problem with these stacks---Oh and if you think the 4x18s are heavy then just try picking up one of the mid/his.
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JD01
Young Croc Joined: 23 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 819 |
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What is unproductive about my comments? They are mostly simple FACTS. When did FACTS become unproductive? But if you want, we can play this game....
Around 200lbs and more seem a lot to me for the output every good 2x18" cab nowadays can do better and lower.
BTW it doesn't seem to bother you that the WEDDING DJ has to use ONE MTL4 per 12/2 style top box. That's something where ONE good SINGLE-18" would be enough.
The MT4 is a bandpass design. Maybe YOU like extraordinary long decay times on bass, most soundguys doing electronic music shows don't. And this design is especially boomy.
I never said you would use them up there. The ORIGINAL application was up to 160Hz, where the MTH4 top would take over. But even IF the MTL4 was crossed over there, nobody liked the sound coming from 100 to 160Hz (simply 'edited' out on the console and the EQs).
Yeah, so why come here to a DISCUSSION FORUM? What you need are some guys to tell you 'good job', no matter what. People come here to get other peoples opinion and some facts. If you don't like it, a forum where everybody can reply is the wrong place for you.
@ robbo: Of course, the MTH4 is even heavier than the MTL4. But this won't change that the MTL4 is pretty heavy already.
I can make almost every completely active crossovered system sound like a hifi system. What you can't change is the transient response. And that's what the MTL4 lack of. If you are used to HiFi sound from Bose subwoofer-satellite systems, the MT4s sound would be quite suitable. But systems like that can only playback a very limited range of music styles without putting the boxes sound on top of the original signal.
In fact systems like these are used as a 'processor' to give a special sound. Yes, the cabs themselves get to be an effect!
I like systems not adding their own signature to the signal, and do these 'effects' on the controller or with real effect units. Edited by JD01 - 14 November 2006 at 7:30pm |
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rich, ind.st
Young Croc Joined: 14 January 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1096 |
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psy has bass below 50 hz and sounds toss without it.
ive only heard ev's t18's and mtl double 18 cabs, been hugely unimpressed by them every time... psy also relies heavily on the transient response of the bass so if people who clearly know more about the speakers are saying they suffer from bad group delay i'd have a rethink... |
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music is god
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Strange Daze
Old Croc Joined: 14 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2861 |
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mmm......
I guess im going more down the lines of what SoundSystemDan did.......
He designed, built and engineers his system for the type of music he likes, the sound he likes, and for the music he plays....
I guess all im doing is the same for how i like to listen to Psy.
I dont want rumble, i dont like it. I like pure + crisp kick.
I think that your being a little harsh when you say psy sounds crap without <<50hz.
Does that meen that my 16HDs rig sounds crap cos i cut it off around 45-50hz?.......?
Na mate...im not in general discussion.
IM in NEW PROJECTS, to ask advice on designs....
I asked for a design,
NOT a load of people trying to put me off a cab which i quite like.
However much i appreciate your advice im not into overthinking or over engineering.
I do that ALL day and most weekends (engineering sound for other peoples tastes)
This rigs for me.....m'kay? (Laughs)
(if it was good enough for the Hacienda and its DJs...its good enough for me basically :)
Peace,
N
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JD01
Young Croc Joined: 23 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 819 |
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EVERY forum is about discussion of some type...
You say you like pure and crisp kick, that's simply something the MTL4 won't ever do. They just can't, it's physically impossible for them. If you have 16 HD15, that's the way to go. It won't get better by putting bandpasses under them. The only viable way to 'marry' kick fillers with a design like the MTL4 is by crossing them over at 60-70Hz. So what will you get? A huge, heavy box to use from 50-65Hz. If you want serious, somewhat more transient correct output below 80Hz go for LAB subs or even Punishers. Boxes like the MTL4 even rumble ABOVE 50Hz. It's the nature of a bandpass, and there are only very very very few bandpasses that won't rumble.
Just take a look around on HIGH QUALITY systems. They all use bandpasses of 6th order+ only for output below 65Hz, and even there it's just a 'budget' solution, not some luxury solution.
BTW I have seen many many clubs that were really well decorated, with good DJ lineup, big audience and extremely crappy sound systems. Also I have seen the best DJs in the world playing on crappy sound systems. I won't be impressed by things like 'DJ XX played on that system, so it must be ok' or 'This really good club has them'. I'm only impressed if I hear it with my own ears.... and that's not that often. It may sound strange or arrogant, but I'm used to work on some of the finest systems on the planet, some of them not even that much known, but all of them way above the MT4.
But since you're not gonna change your plans: What speakers will you put in them? BTW again: I'm not angry at all, even it may seem so to you. It's just hard for me to write in english. Don't get me wrong.
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dadaumpa
Registered User Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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I agree.
There are two things I dislike about the MTL 4, and both deals with the 6th order bandpass design and the bandwidht they serves.
First, it seems to me quite hard to reach a proper crossover frequency to match properly with the 4 horn loaded DL10 10" loudspeaker in th MTH4.
6th order bandpass with 18" woofers cannot go that high with good transient response, and to be honest, any loading configuration with 18" woofer exhibit poor transient behaviour for frequency above 100 Hz.
Then, the low side extension is severely limited to about 50 Hz, and this is unacceptable.
I usually run an old system with NEXO LS2000 6th order bandpass and SI2000 15" horn loaded, and the crossover frequency setted by the controller is 75 Hz*, quite over the low side natural (unfiltered) cutoff of the horn loaded 15", being still quite low, and the low side extension of the bandpass subwoofer is 28 Hz.
Of course the price to be paid is 2 cabinet instead of 1, 2 way instead of 1, two amplifier instead of 1, two controllers istead of 1, but I still prefer to move more smaller and lighter enclosure than less super heavy units.
It seems to me that the MT4 design goal was to manufacture the loudspeaker system with highest acoustic power/phisycal volume ratio and in this respect achieved the design goal, but with some drawback, and for this reason has been abandoned.
Also the Nexo SI2000 and LS2000 has been dismitted, but surely not for the overall sound quality it is still capable to offer.
Regards
Marcello Croce
Audio Reinforcement Concepts, Portofino, Italy
*Nexo manufactured also a 55 Hz card to use as alternative with the SI2000.
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