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Omnitop 12 build pics

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Lasse Lukkari View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lasse Lukkari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2007 at 12:17pm
Link edited. Sorry that I didn't see this earlier.
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planman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2007 at 12:31pm
Sorry about that guys, I didn't mean to place the board owners under any stress. However, the legal information posted by Bgavin is of questionable accuracy, and certainly not as cut and dry as is made out. As I only linked to the copyright material and didn't actually upload it, neither speakerplans nor me is involved in copyright theft, nor could you just say outright that either of us is liable for however many times the file was downloaded. Letters have been sent in the USA by large corporations arguing that sites such as tv-links.co.uk who do link to content should cease and desist etc. However, the sites are still online and it looks like they're going to stay. After all, if linking to copyright material was against the law, you couldn't link to anyone's website, as that's their copyright. Additionally, Google indexes many, many files which infringe copyright, and so also link to pirate material. I'm not meaning to stir up trouble and I won't repost the link but i just agree with Rog's sentiment about the spirit of the scene, and find the litigiousness of Bill Fitzmaurice quite a turn off when considering whether to buy his plans or not.

Check out this link and the comments:
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2006/12/is_simply_linki.html


Edited by planman - 07 August 2007 at 12:33pm
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Disco Stu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2007 at 1:57pm
I can understand why Bill would be a bit more concerned if his plans were being spread for free because thats his business, he doesnt make or build the cabs for a living he just sells the plans so that others can. However planman is right about the legal issue providing he did not upload it, however the fact that he is a new user suggests to me that he wishes to remain anonymous which is probably what aroused BGavins suspicions.
 
Rogs business is Void and if the Void plans were being made public (even though the correct drivers for most of his cabs are not commercially available) I am sure he would have something to say about it
 
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2007 at 3:55pm

I have been reading through this thread trying to understand what is happening. It's obviously about copying. There will always be a bit of argie bargie with this subject. I would never encourage copying, but instead, try to be inspired enough to go down a similar path but with improvement. I am always amazed that some people are after copying what sometimes amounts to a square box. I never see any future in this. None of are going to re-invent the wheel, so most of our designs will always be a modification on a theme.

The first picture in this tread shows an omnitop cab. Is this a Bill Fitzemaurice design. I am not aware of his stuff.

Here's a picture of our old M212 designed and built 27 years ago.



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Disco Stu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2007 at 1:22am
You are right tony yes the cab is the design that I will be building that I bought crossover bits from you for, its very similar to that cab you posted and your MX600 in the mids. Nothing new except as is plainly obvious from the pics the cab is a 4560 style design with a larger ported rear chamber and a different spec for the drivers. All of these types of cabs are very similar MT122, MT102, MX600, M212, Omnitop2x12 etc. the only real difference being with the fitzmaurice designs is the absolute sizes of the flare and the fact that the entire build is documented from start to finish including techniques for construction etc. So there is nothing particularly mystical about the design.
 
The fact that planman linked to the ENTIRE Tuba 30 plan is probably what set BGavin off.
 
Anyone could have drawn up a plan for a cab resembling the Omnitop2x12 by hand and posted it around several forums and it would have probably taken weeks before anyone realised it was a copy of someone elses plan. 
 
To that end I pose a question, how close does it need to be to something else before its a copy?
Could you change 1 dimension 1mm and its a completely different design? If you just post the dimensions of the box drawn up in a different way to the original without any details of how to build it is that still a breach of copyright?
 
All of these seem to fall into a grey area, has anyone here got enough legal expertise to explain this?
 
Stu
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2007 at 8:06am

The copyrite is broken if in court where they would give it the laymans test. An outsider would be asked if one box looks the same in essence as the other. One box could be twice as large as the other, but it would make no difference. The most dangerous one to be caught up in is passing off, where you are deliberately misleading by saying what you have copied is the genuine artical or calling it the same.

The grey area for me is whether people technically have copyrite. The drawing must exist before the artical is produced. This doesn't have to be a technical drawing, it can be the original sketch. If the cab (for instance) is produced before the drawing then copyrite can't apply.

Very few real designers would ever draw planes for production unless they have made the cabs and know that they work. Because of this situation I would guess there can't be too much protection out in the field for most of the cabs that exist today.

I have been in the high court with this so I am talking from past experience.
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Disco Stu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2007 at 12:53pm

So in essence even if a bass horn for example had an identical response to another but was a different shape or design due to a slightly different fold it wouldnt be the same horn? Not that thats likely to happen in the real world but just hypothetical. But say for example I went and refolded the 1850 Horn to put it in a different shaped box, would it then be a different horn?

Stu
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2007 at 1:03pm
performance doesn't come into it. It's only what it looks like. If someone made a roller with a mini engine in it, they would get done.
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Disco Stu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2007 at 3:17pm

So technically you might be able to sue bill for copying your M212?

Crazy stuff!
 
Stu
All you need to know is:
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TONY.A.S.S. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2007 at 4:33pm

or somebody elses 2x12. Drawings have to be dated and backed up otherwise we could all doodle and put 5th March 1763. on it. although the biro would give it away I suppose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pooju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2007 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by Disco Stu Disco Stu wrote:

To that end I pose a question, how close does it need to be to something else before its a copy?


Obviously Tony's name speaks for his experience, he'll know more than me and most, but i think in the u.k. there has to be 7 'significant differences' to a design - that is that the copier/defence has to prove.

anyone remember asda getting in trouble from ripping off other clothing designs, in the papers and i think there was even a tv documentary on it? Asda got to close to the wire and had to burn a lot of stuff ...  they still pay people to go and snoop designs, fashion shows etc, loads of companies do it and have been for donkeys years.

but i think from reading up on  it some time ago i seem to remember that, like the 'person of competence' required for pat testing, exactly what constitutes a 'significant difference' was a bit vague and essentially a judgment call.

for a layman and the likes of Rog and Tony ... and any speaker nonce, the concepts of significant differences are going to be world apart. But this is internet info, still .gov sites, but not speaking to anyone direct.  Whe're the lawyer come speaker perverts?

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DAVID_L_PERRY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DAVID_L_PERRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2007 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

.......Does paying for it really not make you want to share it. Thats a perfect business.


I have purchased the full set of plans from Bill
I would not share them purely on the grounds that it's his request not to do so and his business loss if I did so. 

The reality is that the plans cost very little to an individual, and are way more than simple drawings, and have masses of construction photos.

When you are posting on Bills forum, the man himself will answer generally within a few hours of the post being made....they are genuinely worth every penny in my view.

The plans are constantly being updated and anybody who has purchased a set of plans can obtain the latest version free of charge as long as they can confirm the original purchase date and email...

Dave



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