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P. Audio C18-650el in PD1850 horn

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streetsounds View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote streetsounds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2008 at 3:10pm
BISAG - ASA? where is this place Pards!
Bass matters...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silas )))))) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2008 at 5:25pm
right well i have them loaded in my 186's and they sound good. Not as lovely and drawing as the pd's but they dont half move some air.
 
Well chufffed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heinrich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2008 at 5:03am
BISAG-ASA............alaska!
.....power is nothing without control....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2014 at 5:27pm
whow the specs for this driver changed a lot! now its 22,76 BL & claims 1200W rms aes, but still same poor xmax
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Kos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 7:08am
The Xmax on the C18-650EL is a little low...
 
BUT
 
P-Audio use the 'true' mathematical calculation for Xmax: ie
 
Voice Coil Winding Height  - Gap Depth
_______________________________
 
                            2
 
25.5 - 15
_______
 
    2
 
which gives you 5.25 mm.
 
Another popular 18" driver has Voice Coil Height of 22, magnet gap depth of 11mm, which gives a calculated Xmax of 5.5mm, yet it's published specs are 8mm Xmax.
 
With a strong magnet, the field will extend outside the gap, so many manufacturers use Klippel measurements to determine at what point the magnet field no longer provides linear response, which in some cases can be 2 or 3 mm bigger than the calculated Xmax.
 
Potentially, the P-Audio could be used beyond 5mm excursion, ultimately the limiting number would be what most manufacturers would call Xlim (or Xdamage) which is the point at which excursion can cause mechanical damage due to the voice coil hitting the back plate or other similar mechanical limit.
 
Unfortunately very few manufacturers publish this info, so it's hard to know.
 
One thing is for sure, you cant just look at the Xmax quoted by different manufacturers and compare it directly, as there are different calculations used which can cause variations of as much as 50% for what should be the same number if they stuck to the true mathematical calculation.
 
Ideally, everyone should publish calculated Xmax, which is mathematical, and then measured Xmax deduced by Klippel Analysis or other similar method, and stick to a standard measurement method.
 
To some extent, Xmax is becoming misquoted in order to make drivers seem better
 
 
 
 


Edited by Andy Kos - 17 November 2014 at 7:11am
just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Jake_Fielder Jake_Fielder wrote:

Xmax (mm) means how far the cone can move backwards and forwards while still being controlled by the magnet, If its exceeded then your driver will distort. If Xdam is exceeded then the driver will destroy itself!
 
Generalisation> So a small Xmax means than that at low frequencys and high power the driver is more likley to get damaged than a driver with a large xmax, (there is other stuff to take into account though)
 
[[[haha just realised i was replying to a 2 year old bit of the thread!]]]
 
To answer you Pozest, im not really sure, i would have thought that the 186horn would be more appropriate. hopefully someone else can help u theough!!!


??? Xmax = the linear region of cone movement it is not controlled by the magnet either but by the output stage of an amplifier  jeez basic stuff not very well understood eh?
we have some P-Audio we are field trialing in enclosures designed for 1850's seem to work quite well 2 single 18 units do very nice job for a 300 percap venue we will be ordering 16 drivers as they seem to do the job
best thing is suck it n see I guess
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Kos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 11:56am
Originally posted by SMP SMP wrote:


we have some P-Audio we are field trialing in enclosures designed for 1850's seem to work quite well 2 single 18 units do very nice job for a 300 percap venue we will be ordering 16 drivers as they seem to do the job


 
Just curious - Which driver is it you are using?
just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 12:09pm
right now cannot recall but you have sent us 4 so far it is an 18 (takes a kwik look at an empty Carton) "E18-600"
seem to be fairly good we were looking for a kwik load to deal with an urgent need & you are kwik of the mark for shipping. I would like to try some others too but as yet had no time to invest in further research.
but all in all pretty good for a cheap driver. I am sure there are others worth trying when it gets a bit slack after new year I will have the time just not now.
I am all ears to any suggestions you may have as it is one of your product lines. so feel free to make suggestions you may have
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mircea Bartic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2016 at 1:10pm
C18-650EL has an X-lim of 22mm / direction
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2016 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:

C18-650EL has an X-lim of 22mm / direction
is that the mk1?
i thought it was more like 4mm lolLOL
personaly id only use these in the 186 horn i will be reporting back in a couple of weeks on how they went at an actual event hopefuly well because iv nearly got 8 of the things lol
If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mircea Bartic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2016 at 10:07am
yes, the MK1

there were several 1850 horn built in Romania using this woofer. Most are still working today.
This is still one of my favorite woofers of all time. Perfect overall combination of Tonality and performance


Edited by Mircea Bartic - 27 April 2016 at 10:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2016 at 11:21am
wow if they survive the 1850 then il guess the 186 is a safe bet i hope
If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?
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