Passive Crossover Design |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan now there is a like full gulp of coffe all over my desk.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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Ok, let me explain some other problems here. Usually the lf driver here will probably be some sort of 15 inch driver and the mid driver most probably a 8 inch driver. Now, if the 8 inch driver is a dedicated mid range driver, it should be about 3-6db more sensitive then the lf driver. Making an attenuation for a driver that will work at like 200-300W means that you need to burn about 100-150W and transfer that in to a heat. That is not a very good idea isnt it? Not that it can not be done, but again, it is on all different level type of work. Not something a newbie can do.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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odc04r
Old Croc Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Sarfampton Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
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Nope, it wasn't important to me. They were for domestic HiFi cabs. If I was happy with how they sounded then nothing else at that point mattered, high power handling was not a concern. I made a couple of versions, one with baffle step correction and one without, played around a bit with component values and took what I preferred. I had already bi-amped them electronically so the acoustic slopes of the drivers had already been taken account of empirically in that listening test. If someone was paying me for the job I would have made the rest of the measurements. |
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Andy Kos
Old Croc Joined: 15 May 2007 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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At this point all that has been asked for is a 200hz crossover, and no attenuation has been asked for. If the drivers chosen match on SPL closely (which is not impossible), there will be no need for attenuation, and if there is a small difference in sensitivity, you could potentially adjust for this with an equaliser. It does depend on what your aim is. If you're trying to go out there and build what might be 'technically' perfect because it ticks all the scientific boxes, then yes you need to go into this in more detail. If you just want a simple crossover to split bass from mid, and arent worried about all the brownie points you win for being technically perfect, then a standard 2 way crossover may well do the job and sound OK for what this guy wants. It's not necessary to over complicate everything and turn it into super high spec top of the range pro audio, sometimes a simple solution will suffice. Before the 'right' solution can be suggested, the OP needs to specify a little more detail as to what he is hoping to achieve, just assuming it's going to be wrong without knowing what he wants is a bit of a big jump.
Edited by Andy Kos - 27 November 2016 at 7:12pm |
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just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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odc04r
Old Croc Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Sarfampton Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
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Or another way of putting it, if you can get 90% of the way there in the half the time it takes you to get to 95% then where do you stop? That's a big part of engineering in any discipline, you have to know when your design is good enough for the sake of time/complexity involved.
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madboffin
Old Croc Joined: 03 July 2009 Location: Milton Keynes Status: Offline Points: 1538 |
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Some good points above, but I still maintain that 200Hz is too low a frequency for a successful homebrew passive crossover as a newbie project.
Components to handle the power properly will be very expensive, especially when considering that you need a range of different values for experimentation. There's nothing to stop you trying and I don't want to discourage experimentation, but it's useful to be aware of the limitiations. The biggest problem is finding suitable inductors. If I wanted to gain some experience, I would start with a mid-to-high crossover. The parts are smaller, cheaper, and widely available. |
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odc04r
Old Croc Joined: 12 July 2006 Location: Sarfampton Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
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You're probably right. Would be interesting to hear some more about the application.
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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For two crossovers it will take (according his calculations) 4 coils of 9mH each.
According to my parts supplier price list, air coiled 9mH made of 1mm wire cost 38 eur. So that is more or less 160 eur for the coils only. And that is if the power is moderate. For anything half serious he is looking at 2mm wire that will double the coils price. Add about 50-60 eur on that for 70uF/160V capacitorsand the total cost might go well over 250 eur for two crossovers. Note my prices are OEM, so double that for a normal small volume purchase.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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One more thing, one 2mm wire 9mH coil is over 2kg in weight. :-)
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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Andy Kos
Old Croc Joined: 15 May 2007 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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Scroll back 2 pages and see my first reply.
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just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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Yes i know. I am just putting some financial perspective to the idea.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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Andy Kos
Old Croc Joined: 15 May 2007 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 3038 |
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It does also depend on power handling requirement, if this is a hi-fi project it could potentially be achieved with smaller/cheaper inductors. If it's for higher power use, it's cheaper to go active.
For a typical 15" driver, I would expect the impedance to be fairly well behaved around 200Hz, depending on your box tuning, it's probably going to be atleast an octave down (100Hz) before you see anything significant happening to the impedance, and in the other direction I wouldnt expect to have any issues from voice coil inductance until 2k or higher. Assuming its crossing over into an 8" or 10", the resonant frequency will be a little higher, so you could see a rising impedance around crossover point (200Hz) which would have some effect, this may or may not be significant in this application, it does depend on the drivers selected. Arguably it may be worth allowing for this, but in a basic application, its entirely possible it may not be a massive problem. If you're aiming for 'perfection' thats a different matter, and yes, hoping to get it right first time without measuring/testing is probably very optimistic. ... but if you just want it to 'work'....
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just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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