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PD.186 / 186.2

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PauliePaul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PauliePaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by fourway hornloaded fourway hornloaded wrote:

There you go, PD1850, PD1851 and PD1851.2.
These guys at prodance do quite a lot of measurements.

http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/721/PD_1850.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/8/15604/PD_1851_2.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/722/TS_PD1851.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/1958/pd.1851_2011_.pdf


Yeah, they look interesting.... BL 42.67 and then 32.56 on the same drivers? (PD.1851 and PD.1851_2011)... Erm... I'm really not sure about any of them really, they may do lots of measurements, but how accurately? 

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

I am not sure the lack of gasket can make any significant difference. If the paint is thick enough and drivers are tightened properly you do not need a gasket.

Oh, it can.... well, it depends on which way you want your argument to go... some people will even go to the lengths of using gaffa tape to cover up the hidden holes if they have been used on the old PD chassis to stop air leakage from the chamber. Paint thickness and baffle cutout size is dependent on the builder I imagine. The new chassis has a recess for the gasket which is around 2mm deep, this recess is in close proximity to the fixing holes - it will leak if there is no gasket.

Originally posted by Tweeter_Box Tweeter_Box wrote:

 
Dunno bout all that, but ive personally done a side by side test with old chassis and new...

Box fresh old chassis and box fresh new chassis or used old chassis and box fresh new chassis? Another unweighted conclusive test?! Pray tell of the details of this test!

Originally posted by ras i ras i wrote:



Didn't know my Identity was a secret  

The new chassis 1852 that was tested did have gasket fitted saw that personally and the cab also had gasket fitted around the cutout.

Did you notice the gaskets were not fitted at the first comparison test?

You usually post on here with a different name right? Why not this time?

There were only two people at the last test, one of them being my customer, the other one being a person who posts on here a lot... curiosity has me wondering why you post under a different user name if indeed that was you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PauliePaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by fourway hornloaded fourway hornloaded wrote:

There you go, PD1850, PD1851 and PD1851.2.
These guys at prodance do quite a lot of measurements.

http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/721/PD_1850.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/8/15604/PD_1851_2.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/722/TS_PD1851.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/1958/pd.1851_2011_.pdf


Oh, and then there's the PD.1850 and PD.1850/2... again wildly differing BL figures for drivers which have identical motors and voice coils.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by PauliePaul PauliePaul wrote:

Originally posted by fourway hornloaded fourway hornloaded wrote:

There you go, PD1850, PD1851 and PD1851.2.
These guys at prodance do quite a lot of measurements.

http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/721/PD_1850.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/8/15604/PD_1851_2.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/722/TS_PD1851.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/1958/pd.1851_2011_.pdf



Oh, and then there's the PD.1850 and PD.1850/2... again wildly differing BL figures for drivers which have identical motors and voice coils.


From what I can tell though, every driver manufacturer has sometimes quite wild variance in production models and published specs even from driver to driver of the same model.
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PauliePaul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PauliePaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by PauliePaul PauliePaul wrote:

Originally posted by fourway hornloaded fourway hornloaded wrote:

There you go, PD1850, PD1851 and PD1851.2.
These guys at prodance do quite a lot of measurements.

http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/721/PD_1850.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/8/15604/PD_1851_2.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/722/TS_PD1851.pdf
http://www.prodance.cz/files/dl/1/1958/pd.1851_2011_.pdf



Oh, and then there's the PD.1850 and PD.1850/2... again wildly differing BL figures for drivers which have identical motors and voice coils.


From what I can tell though, every driver manufacturer has sometimes quite wild variance in production models and published specs even from driver to driver of the same model.

Ever seen a driver with a BL of 40+ ?
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QSS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote QSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by ras i ras i wrote:

Not sure what the deal is with PD at the moment, but what I know for sure is the new 186 is not the same as the old ones. I tested them myself and the new ones perform more like the fane sov 18 than the old 186. Whether or not the parameters where incorrect on the old ones, they certainly are different to the new ones which IMO is not good.

I was also present last week when the 1852s in question was tested in the lev scoops and the new chassis 1852 didn't sound as smooth as the proto ones used when the lev scoops where played in Golden Palace. Not only did they not sound as smooth they seemed to bottom out much ealier. And yes they did all have gaskets in place.


I was trying to keep away from this drama regarding the 1852s that were tested. But seeing that the test has now been made public let me shed a little light on what actually happened.
After the performance of the lev scoops and my prototype 1852s at GP last year a customer ordered 8 scoops and then bought 8 of the production 1852s. But after his first outing with them he was not pleased with the performance. So because I was the one that built the boxes I felt obligated to offer a solution.
The customer brought 4 boxes to my unit along with 2 production 1852s and 2 prototypes and I also had 2 of my own prototype/oem 1852s on the old chassis. We spent a few hours comparing the 3 different drivers in the lev scoops and it was clear that all 3 were different. The prototypes that the customer brought down were the least favoured with the production one's not far behind. My prototype/oem drivers were far superior to the others.
The test was done with the customer at the control with his pre amp and music selection. All I did was provide the space and the amps we used at GP along with a couple others just for compare with his amps to see if that made any difference.
I then had a call a week or so later from my customer saying that he was told that the drivers didn't work right because the rear gaskets were not used, which to me wouldn't make much difference seeing that even after undoing the bolts the driver was still sealed to the baffle by the 5 coats of paint but just to satisfy his curiosity I took them back and done the test again last week with gaskets on. Results was the same

There was 5 people present at the first test and 4 people at the second test.
Ras I uses 1851s in his hog scoops and is ordering some minis and was contemplating on going for 1852s which is why I invited him to the second test


Edited by QSS - 06 May 2014 at 7:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ras i Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 8:22pm
@Paulie Paul

I don't know who you think I am but I think you're climbing up the wrong tree. I have no reason to hide my identity. I can pm you my phone number if you want to have a chat. I may also need to chat to you bout some business.

Bless
Ras I (The I stands for Isaiah by the way)


Edited by ras i - 06 May 2014 at 8:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PauliePaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by QSS QSS wrote:

Originally posted by ras i ras i wrote:

Not sure what the deal is with PD at the moment, but what I know for sure is the new 186 is not the same as the old ones. I tested them myself and the new ones perform more like the fane sov 18 than the old 186. Whether or not the parameters where incorrect on the old ones, they certainly are different to the new ones which IMO is not good.

I was also present last week when the 1852s in question was tested in the lev scoops and the new chassis 1852 didn't sound as smooth as the proto ones used when the lev scoops where played in Golden Palace. Not only did they not sound as smooth they seemed to bottom out much ealier. And yes they did all have gaskets in place.


I was trying to keep away from this drama regarding the 1852s that were tested. But seeing that the test has now been made public let me shed a little light on what actually happened.
After the performance of the lev scoops and my prototype 1852s at GP last year a customer ordered 8 scoops and then bought 8 of the production 1852s. But after his first outing with them he was not pleased with the performance. So because I was the one that built the boxes I felt obligated to offer a solution.
The customer brought 4 boxes to my unit along with 2 production 1852s and 2 prototypes and I also had 2 of my own prototype/oem 1852s on the old chassis. We spent a few hours comparing the 3 different drivers in the lev scoops and it was clear that all 3 were different. The prototypes that the customer brought down were the least favoured with the production one's not far behind. My prototype/oem drivers were far superior to the others.
The test was done with the customer at the control with his pre amp and music selection. All I did was provide the space and the amps we used at GP along with a couple others just for compare with his amps to see if that made any difference.
I then had a call a week or so later from my customer saying that he was told that the drivers didn't work right because the rear gaskets were not used, which to me wouldn't make much difference seeing that even after undoing the bolts the driver was still sealed to the baffle by the 5 coats of paint but just to satisfy his curiosity I took them back and done the test again last week with gaskets on. Results was the same

There was 5 people present at the first test and 4 people at the second test.
Ras I uses 1851s in his hog scoops and is ordering some minis and was contemplating on going for 1852s which is why I invited him to the second test

The spec of your protos is identical to the ones that were sent down, I know this because I spec'd them remember...? I had two sets of four, the first four were produced in May 2012 and were banded about during that summer and featured on the Kayak float at Notting Hill, your set of eight were made to the same spec as these in Sept 2012. I had a second set of four built in Nov 2012 with a slightly different spec, these failed due to an amp issue in Dec 2012 and were reconed to the May spec. I sent down one of the May drivers and one of the reconed Dec drivers.

Perhaps call the customer to confirm who he thinks were present at the second test...? He said to me (less than 5 minutes ago, as I had to double check before I wrote this) that there were four people present to start with, two left (business partner and brother) and only two were there during the actual testing of the drivers.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote QSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 9:33pm
Check your pm the reason for the ans from your customer regarding who was at the test will be cleared up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote QSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 9:39pm
If what you say is correct regarding my prototypes being the same as yours which I doubt very much if we go by the test results then I think PD must have done something wrong or right by accident when they made mine
"Music is life"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PauliePaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by QSS QSS wrote:

If what you say is correct regarding my prototypes being the same as yours which I doubt very much if we go by the test results then I think PD must have done something wrong or right by accident when they made mine


Don't blow them then… parts are obsolete.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote QSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2014 at 10:04pm
Funny thing is 4 was out on loan and 1 got blown or failed for whatever reason I'm not sure. But got sorted by PD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArthurG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2014 at 5:29am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by ArthurG ArthurG wrote:

Original 186 and V2 are the same, only chassis change. From the start, this driver had a high qts (>0.45). Datasheet was wrong. 

Excellent.

Any chance you could list the measured parameters of the V1 & V2 parameters side by side ?
unfortunately, 5 years ago, I've lost 10 years of measurements when, the same day, my HD laptop died the same time as my USB drive backup Dead
But I remember very clearly that original 186 has a QTS around 0.5 and low BL around 20

Now regarding the new 186, I have a friend engineer who compared the 2 drivers earl this year and except some minimal production consistency, he told me they are basically the same. I will check if he can send me the test report.

--Arthur

PS: out for a week and this topic went crazy Shocked 

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