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PDs vs Void 18"
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Jake_Fielder View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

The main question I remember from that tread was will the V18-1200 take its rated power. Many are starting to think the V18-1000 is stronger. All I can say is that I’ve managed to destroy every driver on this planet except the V18-1200. I can take out a P Audio P18 650EL in less than 2 minutes with the test tracks I have. Adam and others can verify this. The best drivers with 5” coils apart from the V18-1200 will last aprox 8 minutes with the same materiel. This includes the V18-1000 which will survive around the same time as an 1850. V18-1200 will keep playing and I’ve not managed to blow one to date. Of course if I used a very small amp that clipped badly I could take one out in a few minutes, but my destruction test is carried out using around 2000 watts of unclipped power. The test tracks I use contain all the nasty crap that drivers hate and would not normally exist on any other tracks, like a kick drum made from square waves and two test tones set slightly apart to introduce beat frequency oscillations. The resulting oscillations can range from 8 to 30Hz and combine that with the square wave transients and there’s not a lot that can survive those test tracks with serious power levels. Before you ask no you can’t have a copy of these test tracks. I can’t have stuff like that get into enemy hands. If other people had those tracks they too could be in a position to make there woofers even stronger. 
What cabs were the drivers tested/wrecked in Rog? were they all in the same cab? or do you mean that over time at some point you has destroyed every speaker except V18-1200
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lol just read it back n it does sound a bit "Mykey" doesnt it lol
 
Sorry to dissapoint you Adam but im not that way inclined!


Edited by tweeter box - 28 March 2008 at 9:55am
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Jake_Fielder View Drop Down
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What were you talking about anyway? Confused
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Cant remember now!!  Confused
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Originally posted by tweeter box tweeter box wrote:

 
Just spoke to a friend of mine who does recones n stuff n hes got a PD on the bench at the moment n i think i might just take the V1200 down there and do some tests coz into that kinda stuff. What do you guys reckon?
 
Gonna be doing this sometime next week, so ill keep ya posted. Big%20smile
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Originally posted by Jake_Fielder Jake_Fielder wrote:

Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

The main question I remember from that tread was will the V18-1200 take its rated power. Many are starting to think the V18-1000 is stronger. All I can say is that I’ve managed to destroy every driver on this planet except the V18-1200. I can take out a P Audio P18 650EL in less than 2 minutes with the test tracks I have. Adam and others can verify this. The best drivers with 5” coils apart from the V18-1200 will last aprox 8 minutes with the same materiel. This includes the V18-1000 which will survive around the same time as an 1850. V18-1200 will keep playing and I’ve not managed to blow one to date. Of course if I used a very small amp that clipped badly I could take one out in a few minutes, but my destruction test is carried out using around 2000 watts of unclipped power. The test tracks I use contain all the nasty crap that drivers hate and would not normally exist on any other tracks, like a kick drum made from square waves and two test tones set slightly apart to introduce beat frequency oscillations. The resulting oscillations can range from 8 to 30Hz and combine that with the square wave transients and there’s not a lot that can survive those test tracks with serious power levels. Before you ask no you can’t have a copy of these test tracks. I can’t have stuff like that get into enemy hands. If other people had those tracks they too could be in a position to make there woofers even stronger. 
What cabs were the drivers tested/wrecked in Rog? were they all in the same cab? or do you mean that over time at some point you has destroyed every speaker except V18-1200
 
Obviously not every driver Jake, but I do own most of what people would call strong drivers. I carry out tests in known box volumes and also in production cabs that people use. If I can play my test tracks with some serious power levels and one the driver lasts longer than another in the same cab, then I know which I would call the stronger driver. Of course some drivers will handle more power in certain types of cabinets as there paramemters were designed that way, so I don't blindly put any driver into any cab to see what happens. I test drivers that I know will work in a certian cab type and then compare untill one goes pop.
 
I'm not saying the V18-1200 is indestructible, if you connect it to a 66,000v plyon it will go bang, but from my real world power tests its doing well in my books. 
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norty303 View Drop Down
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I think I know why you may have had trouble moving the V1200.
 
The PD has been around for many years, every sound man under the sun has heard them/of them.
 
Void are relatively new, and not yet broken through in certain markets.
 
Ask 100 soundmen what they think is best, PD1850 or V1200 and the PD will win hands down, not because its neccessarily better, but it's familiar and a known quantity, in the same way that people who know very little about pro audio think Behringer is good, because its a name they recognise.
 
 
I also think that you have to test each driver in its own box, best suited to what its best at, or on a common inf baffle as adam says.  A free air test tells you very little about a driver as it's not how they're ever going to be used.  Drivers require something to push against and are designed to work that way.
 
Otherwise its apples and oranges comparison, akin to testing a Ferarri against an Impreza and doing it on a forest rally stage.
 
 
As Rog has been very keen to point out, the V1000 is more like the PD1850 than the v1200.  So if all of these cabs that have been tested were originally sounding best with the 1850, it makes sense that its probably not the best box for the V1200, and so people shouldn't be surprised if the V1200 doesn't perform as well under those conditions.
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''Ive owned 3 V1200 drivers, still got one and my personal opinion is;
 
I dont think it could take more than 700w before it pops!''

It seems to me that unless you have put 700w plus through the voids, then this is speculation based on cone material and magnet size- or hearsay? If you have had both pd and void side by side (in what box....Confused) and v1200 has popped, or is audibly reaching its limits at the same power then fair enough, maybe it is 'less robust'. If you are looking at the driver sitting on your table then i would have thought its pretty hard to judge things like the failing temperature of adhesives/voice coil or whatever dictates the power capable of being sunk in the driver.   I dont know about the different box debate, this is just my opinion on how i would make a judgement of robustness. No disrespect, matt
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I do hope someone doesn't try and do a power handling test in free air.  With no air load the cone will just try and jump out of the cone.

I think you need to look at how standards like AES specify drivers to be tested. Bandwidth limited pink noise, 6dB crest factor, sealed enclosure?
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Tekasis View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tekasis Tekasis wrote:

The other day a Turbomax 900 in Shortman's full scoop & PD1850 in his Mini scoop performed much better than a v18-1200 in the same scoop. 
 
Just to correct what I'd written before when I said same scoop, it was meant to mean in a full scoop, which has had me thinking for a long time since Levy first brought down the v12-1800 for testing.
 
That evening we were all concentrating on it in a mini-scoop as it sounded the best, especially for the cab size compared to the other drivers in a large chamber full scoop & small chamber RX18.
 
What was brought to my attention then by Ren was to see how the PD1850 was vibrating at low frequencies which was then it was explained to me that is what is what happens when the driver is un-loading, which I haven't seen mention here.
 
Can someone who knows explain what it actually means & why this happens ?
 
Is it when the driver doesn't match the cab it's in or does it mean there should have had a filter of some type fitted ?
 
This un-loading didn't happen when the PD1850 or even the v18-1000 was in the RX18 or in HBL's Hog scoop.
 
I don't own any large chamber mini-scoops for myself, but from what I've been reading & hearing when I borrow some, Rog was right to ask the other day why are some of us concentrating on the v18-1200's to sound the best in large chambered cabs.
 
Maybe a medium chamber is what it needs, enforcing why it sounds better in the mini over the full scoop. Taking it the chamber in the mini is smaller than the full scoop.
 
Levyte is well overdue to get this cab of yours built by someone.
 
Hope this all makes sense.
 
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Originally posted by Tekasis Tekasis wrote:

 
Just to correct what I'd written before when I said same scoop, it was meant to mean in a full scoop, which has had me thinking for a long time since Levy first brought down the v12-1800 for testing.
 
That evening we were all concentrating on it in a mini-scoop as it sounded the best, especially for the cab size compared to the other drivers in a large chamber full scoop & small chamber RX18.
 
What was brought to my attention then by Ren was to see how the PD1850 was vibrating at low frequencies which was then it was explained to me that is what is what happens when the driver is un-loading, which I haven't seen mention here.

 

Yes, that night the V18-1200 sounded the best in the Mini scoop. 

And even though the PD1850 has higher BL, it started losing control and unloading, where at the same volume with same eq, the V18-1200 was just sounding mellow, with no issue at all.

We didnt put 1kw thru each driver that night, but when that happens, that will really tell the true story.

A fair comparison would be PD1850 in RX18 vs V18-1200 in a scoop designed for it, or Superscooper modded just for it.



Edited by levyte357 - 30 March 2008 at 5:09pm
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Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

Originally posted by Jake_Fielder Jake_Fielder wrote:

Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

The main question I remember from that tread was will the V18-1200 take its rated power. Many are starting to think the V18-1000 is stronger. All I can say is that I’ve managed to destroy every driver on this planet except the V18-1200. I can take out a P Audio P18 650EL in less than 2 minutes with the test tracks I have. Adam and others can verify this. The best drivers with 5” coils apart from the V18-1200 will last aprox 8 minutes with the same materiel. This includes the V18-1000 which will survive around the same time as an 1850. V18-1200 will keep playing and I’ve not managed to blow one to date. Of course if I used a very small amp that clipped badly I could take one out in a few minutes, but my destruction test is carried out using around 2000 watts of unclipped power. The test tracks I use contain all the nasty crap that drivers hate and would not normally exist on any other tracks, like a kick drum made from square waves and two test tones set slightly apart to introduce beat frequency oscillations. The resulting oscillations can range from 8 to 30Hz and combine that with the square wave transients and there’s not a lot that can survive those test tracks with serious power levels. Before you ask no you can’t have a copy of these test tracks. I can’t have stuff like that get into enemy hands. If other people had those tracks they too could be in a position to make there woofers even stronger. 
What cabs were the drivers tested/wrecked in Rog? were they all in the same cab? or do you mean that over time at some point you has destroyed every speaker except V18-1200
 
Obviously not every driver Jake, but I do own most of what people would call strong drivers. I carry out tests in known box volumes and also in production cabs that people use. If I can play my test tracks with some serious power levels and one the driver lasts longer than another in the same cab, then I know which I would call the stronger driver. Of course some drivers will handle more power in certain types of cabinets as there paramemters were designed that way, so I don't blindly put any driver into any cab to see what happens. I test drivers that I know will work in a certian cab type and then compare untill one goes pop.
 
I'm not saying the V18-1200 is indestructible, if you connect it to a 66,000v plyon it will go bang, but from my real world power tests its doing well in my books. 
 
Cheers for explaining what you ment.
In another thread you implied that the cone of the V18-1200 was one of the best ever made by Muller, What do you mean by that? because you have said previously that the v18-1000 has a stronger cone (dunno if it was made by muller, i assume not)
Is the cone exceptionally strong for its weight or what?
 
Personally i'd give my left ventricle for a couple of V18-1200s i dunno what all this fuss is about!
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