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Phase Alignment - Smaart

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AngusR9090 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AngusR9090 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2018 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

The delay setting will vary depending on measurement conditions - distance to source, source type, soundcard/interface, etc etc.

You can often use SMAART's auto finder when doing midtops but it's pretty useless on subs because of the lack of useful data when measuring subs (low SnR ratio) and the fact that EVERY sub is stretched across a very broad period of time in it's usable passband.

Your best bet for sub alignment is to start using tape measure or laser measure for subs, and then add on the processing delay of your soundcard, processor/LMS and if in use, mixing desk. Then tweak up or down using the manual controls until the trace looks reasonably flat - really it's a matter of setting something in the right ballpark and then sticking with it when you measure the other passbands so that the reference doesn't change.

When doing midtops I would also strongly recommend going outdoors and putting the cab on its back, firing up into the sky, and then dangle the measurement mic above it at a reasonable distance - much easier to avoid reflections from buildings that way.



Just coming to this after setting up basic distance delay for the new subs. Do you think there is an incredible improvement by phase aligning a soundsystem? Is there some sort of tutorial how to do so? 


When I was young.... we still had parties
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2018 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by AngusR9090 AngusR9090 wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

The delay setting will vary depending on measurement conditions - distance to source, source type, soundcard/interface, etc etc.

You can often use SMAART's auto finder when doing midtops but it's pretty useless on subs because of the lack of useful data when measuring subs (low SnR ratio) and the fact that EVERY sub is stretched across a very broad period of time in it's usable passband.

Your best bet for sub alignment is to start using tape measure or laser measure for subs, and then add on the processing delay of your soundcard, processor/LMS and if in use, mixing desk. Then tweak up or down using the manual controls until the trace looks reasonably flat - really it's a matter of setting something in the right ballpark and then sticking with it when you measure the other passbands so that the reference doesn't change.

When doing midtops I would also strongly recommend going outdoors and putting the cab on its back, firing up into the sky, and then dangle the measurement mic above it at a reasonable distance - much easier to avoid reflections from buildings that way.



Just coming to this after setting up basic distance delay for the new subs. Do you think there is an incredible improvement by phase aligning a soundsystem? Is there some sort of tutorial how to do so? 




Yes, there really is. For a start, you don't get huge holes in response in the magnitude, but you also get a much clearer and less smeared sound too. There's no step by step guide because it's a method you learn based on the data you measure - the software is just a dumb thing that responds to your questions, not some magic bullet that fixes everything for you. There are however courses to get used to the methodology and what you're looking for, but you have to not be scared of doing actual maths and also spending a bit of cash to do the course. Rational Acoustics' website and customer service is pretty good for advising you of any courses near your area if you ask them.

Otherwise, you can get a free copy of REW, a UMIK-1 USB mic and have at it with forum trawling, video watching, and paper reading. Expect to take a lot of bad measurements before you make good ones, and half the fun is learning how to know which are bad and which are good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IvCu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2018 at 12:35am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by AngusR9090 AngusR9090 wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

The delay setting will vary depending on measurement conditions - distance to source, source type, soundcard/interface, etc etc.

You can often use SMAART's auto finder when doing midtops but it's pretty useless on subs because of the lack of useful data when measuring subs (low SnR ratio) and the fact that EVERY sub is stretched across a very broad period of time in it's usable passband.

Your best bet for sub alignment is to start using tape measure or laser measure for subs, and then add on the processing delay of your soundcard, processor/LMS and if in use, mixing desk. Then tweak up or down using the manual controls until the trace looks reasonably flat - really it's a matter of setting something in the right ballpark and then sticking with it when you measure the other passbands so that the reference doesn't change.

When doing midtops I would also strongly recommend going outdoors and putting the cab on its back, firing up into the sky, and then dangle the measurement mic above it at a reasonable distance - much easier to avoid reflections from buildings that way.



Just coming to this after setting up basic distance delay for the new subs. Do you think there is an incredible improvement by phase aligning a soundsystem? Is there some sort of tutorial how to do so? 




Yes, there really is. For a start, you don't get huge holes in response in the magnitude, but you also get a much clearer and less smeared sound too. There's no step by step guide because it's a method you learn based on the data you measure - the software is just a dumb thing that responds to your questions, not some magic bullet that fixes everything for you. There are however courses to get used to the methodology and what you're looking for, but you have to not be scared of doing actual maths and also spending a bit of cash to do the course. Rational Acoustics' website and customer service is pretty good for advising you of any courses near your area if you ask them.

Otherwise, you can get a free copy of REW, a UMIK-1 USB mic and have at it with forum trawling, video watching, and paper reading. Expect to take a lot of bad measurements before you make good ones, and half the fun is learning how to know which are bad and which are good.

Is it somehow possible to route UMIK-1 usb microphone to soundcard/laptop to get a reference signal and measuring signal in smaart to "activate" FFT? I'm having difficulties finding this configuration scheme. 
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Timo Beckman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Timo Beckman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2018 at 3:25pm
The sound will be as good as the band play's
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