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PKN prices huge drop!??

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snowflake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2019 at 1:25pm
the prices on the PKN website are higher than the full prices on the Blue Aran website
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2019 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:


The X series plays nowhere outside of closed government projects since collapsing after the first beat and ways too expensive. X4 advertised as " 20000Watts amplifier" while in the reality can do just little more average power than the small PKN LC4004U



Sorry, this is just utter horseshit. I just provided insanely powerful audio for 50,000 people using only four X4s and an X8 Dante the other week. Show me the speakers that can actually dissipate more than 500W long term please. I know of a few, and they are few.

Edited by toastyghost - 19 November 2019 at 1:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2019 at 2:12pm
X4 is weak* with power hungry speakers or more than average crest factor signals.
Very important to split the load and frequencies between channels too for avoiding rail collapses.
If you split the speakers carefully and work with not dense music X4 could work but forget reserves in headroom.
The whole electrical construction of the X4 did not support to provide 5KW per channel, neither fuses, cooling or power supply as we have discussed previously.
X8 I do not know, never saw that.

* weak = in the meanings that advertised as an 10000-20000Watts amplifier
better matching classification as an 4-5000Watt category amp...


Edited by U.Viktor - 19 November 2019 at 2:23pm
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2019 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

X4 is weak* with power hungry speakers or more than average crest factor signals.
Very important to split the load and frequencies between channels too for avoiding rail collapses.
If you split the speakers carefully and work with not dense music X4 could work but forget reserves in headroom.
The whole electrical construction of the X4 did not support to provide 5KW per channel, neither fuses, cooling or power supply as we have discussed previously.
X8 I do not know, never saw that.

* weak = in the meanings that advertised as an 10000-20000Watts amplifier
better matching classification as an 4-5000Watt category amp...




How odd, an amplifier designed for best practices - spreading your load across multiple amps so one failure doesn't take out an entire passband - works best that way!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote logsquared1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2019 at 11:01pm
Why is everybody so caught up with watts?  Powersoft gives the long term power of their amps so you can design a system around it.  They even have a spreadsheet that gives headroom for different loads and passbands.  No more wandering in the dark trying to match loads to amps.  

With these new high voltage rail amps we (sound guys) should be cheering.  Now we can get full dynamic sound AND SPL without compressing the crap out of each passband.  Particularly sub and bass.  Technology is good.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2019 at 6:44am
Yes, for those of us who move with the times high rail amplifiers like Powersoft give is the dynamic range capability that we always wanted back in the days of heavy, dynamically limited amplifiers such as creat p series, macrotechs and other often lauded amplifiers on here.

I had racks and racks and racks of p8001/9001 back in the 1990’s with far higher  continuous power output( that unless you were extremely heavily compressed you could never use) than my current racks, and just recently had a macrotech powered logic system through my hands which reminded me just how dynamically limited these old amplifiers are. Go back? NO THANKS!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2019 at 8:09am
Of course not! These modern switching amplifiers have many advantages over old technology, like better capability to drive the speakers when the output Voltage is NOT in phase with the output Current. We know that almost all of the speakers do it.

However to provide the desired output at least 1/4 or 1/3 continuous power capability IS required based on common loudspeaker standards. So to provide "5000Watts Audio" based on the EIAJ standrad at least 1650W "average" is required, NOT 390W as Powersoft delivered in the X4...

We found that when driving low-frequency, the stored energy in the amp quickly falling in case of not very strong power supply, therefore going down to 20Hz at least 50% "average capability" IS required.
My PKN XE amps can do 60-70% continuous power of the rated output for several seconds, which may burn down the voice coils if not properly set the limiters and levels but definetely required to keep up the SPL even with dense signals. Sometimes not only the low section pulls out big power but some rock bads too playing in the upper low and mids range..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2019 at 9:59am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:



So can we expect any of the amps they announced in the last 5 years yet, or what?
lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Kos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2019 at 3:33am
There are a few things going on here. I would be lying if I said I understood all of them, but a few have been mentioned.

Firstly, as has been mentioned, the Hungarian currency has been weakened against the Euro, this means the buy price in Euros has gone down. This is fact.

Separately, the amplifier market is pretty hot right now, there are a lot of chinese clones (many of them complete pants without CE and RoHS) coming into the market. They may not be as good, they may blow up after a year, they may technically be illegal to import into the EU and sell, but its happening, and money is changing hands. This has had some impact on PKN, and they have decided to react, and some of this revolves around the first point above, but also they have ramped up production, and the economies of scale kick in. If you can increase your production runs, and increase manufacturing efficiency, you can lower costs. So overall, PKN prices are down.

Bits I dont understand:

1. Their decision to drop prices on their own website, completely undermining their distribution network, and 'probably' pissing off all their dealers.

2. Their decision to sell direct to anyone, whilst technically not being allowed to do so. Under EU law, any electronic equipment coming into a given territory (country) must have a 'producer' registered with the environment agency, and that producer is required to ensure CE certification, RoHS compliance, and they must also contribute financially to WEEE recycling centres to avoid waste Electrical equipment going into landfill.  PKN are not the producer in other EU countries, so they should be registering as a 'producer' in each country they sell to. In reality, most people ignore this, and cross border selling is standard, its a weird bit of EU law that directly contradicts the freedom of movement of goods.

So as a few people have mentioned in this thread. Whats going on?....

 
just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2019 at 7:12am
Originally posted by Andy Kos Andy Kos wrote:

There are a few things going on here. I would be lying if I said I understood all of them, but a few have been mentioned.

Firstly, as has been mentioned, the Hungarian currency has been weakened against the Euro, this means the buy price in Euros has gone down. This is fact.

Separately, the amplifier market is pretty hot right now, there are a lot of chinese clones (many of them complete pants without CE and RoHS) coming into the market. They may not be as good, they may blow up after a year, they may technically be illegal to import into the EU and sell, but its happening, and money is changing hands. This has had some impact on PKN, and they have decided to react, and some of this revolves around the first point above, but also they have ramped up production, and the economies of scale kick in. If you can increase your production runs, and increase manufacturing efficiency, you can lower costs. So overall, PKN prices are down.

Bits I dont understand:

1. Their decision to drop prices on their own website, completely undermining their distribution network, and 'probably' pissing off all their dealers.

2. Their decision to sell direct to anyone, whilst technically not being allowed to do so. Under EU law, any electronic equipment coming into a given territory (country) must have a 'producer' registered with the environment agency, and that producer is required to ensure CE certification, RoHS compliance, and they must also contribute financially to WEEE recycling centres to avoid waste Electrical equipment going into landfill.  PKN are not the producer in other EU countries, so they should be registering as a 'producer' in each country they sell to. In reality, most people ignore this, and cross border selling is standard, its a weird bit of EU law that directly contradicts the freedom of movement of goods.

So as a few people have mentioned in this thread. Whats going on?....

Completely off-topic.  Congrats on hitting your 3000 posts Andy.
Only users lose drugs
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Andy Kos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Kos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2019 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Completely off-topic.  Congrats on hitting your 3000 posts Andy.
 good point, would probably have been a lot more by now... but....

I kind of got busy doing stuff that earns money, rather than arguing about pointless stuff on here LOL
just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2019 at 10:48am
You'll never get anywhere with that attitude.

To complete the derailing, did you ever do anything productive with all the foam wall coverings I offloaded to you?
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