Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Advanced Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - (Power Question) 63a 3ph convert to 'within regs'?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

(Power Question) 63a 3ph convert to 'within regs'?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
JonB67 View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 22 April 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1366 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2021 at 8:19am
Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

I wouldn’t recommend getting “an 18th Edition Sparks”, I would suggest you get someone that is intimately familiar with current requirements, standard practices, etc. for events/temporary installations.

You see enough abortions in houses, etc. done by “XXth edition sparks” house-bashers without them dabbling in shit they know or understand even less about Ouch

This, x 100. 
Back to Top
MattStolton View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 04 September 2010
Location: Walthamstow
Status: Offline
Points: 4230 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2021 at 9:53am
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

I wouldn’t recommend getting “an 18th Edition Sparks”, I would suggest you get someone that is intimately familiar with current requirements, standard practices, etc. for events/temporary installations.

You see enough abortions in houses, etc. done by “XXth edition sparks” house-bashers without them dabbling in shit they know or understand even less about Ouch

This, x 100. 
Yes, much as it falls under "18th" whenever you use it, or 19th when that comes along, BS7909 is really where you need to be at. However, it defers back to BS7671 quite a lot. Consider BS7909 a "Special Installation or Locations" extension as it is so "special", that Section 711 (Exhibitions, Shows and Stands) wasn't enough.

I have never yet seen a domestic XXth Qualified sparks, run anything other than 2.5mm T&E for a ring, despite factors like length and insulation meaning 4mm or maybe even 6mm required. Commercially, I see a lot of 4mm FP being run on rings, almost as a standard, as someone has actually done some calculations...
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"
Back to Top
Boxes-R-Blue View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 11 December 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boxes-R-Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2021 at 1:04am
Pretty much all of above, shocking no one has posted utter twaddle yet!!!

If the price is right it looks a nice setup, you will need to replace the MCBs with RCBOs ( @ £30 a pop! https://www.google.com/search?q=crabtree+rcbo+c+curve&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB942GB942&sxsrf=ALeKk01P_T-g-FoT6Wa167Gk_AtnvIEydA:1619049245196&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizuIi5xJDwAhUtThUIHdYJAu4Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=2844&bih=1377 ) 

to make it useful, I'd get someone with an MFT to do this and provide insulation and L-E/L-N  PFC results for every outlet.

Obviously you want to see the bang times on the new RCBOs as well!

but to me it looks in no way a crapper, the earth tag shows some design so the internal are probably all correct CSA etc.

It is also not a "Chip Van" rubber distro and looks gig worthy.

I'd build something like that and provide an EIC for around £2000 so if you can get the box, RCBOs and testing/installation for a good price, go for it, worse case you need £70 in tri-rate cable and ferrules to re-wire it, but all the panel work and stuff it done and the thing is reasonably well appointed ( you could pull the panel the 13As  on and add Powercon/more ceeforms if you fancied ) but it does need RCD protection and with today kit I would strongly advise against a 63A 3PNE 30/30 incommer!
Kinda Been there, Kinda done that, YOU COULDN'T handle my bar bill!
Back to Top
imageoven View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 28 March 2007
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 2165 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imageoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2021 at 9:19am
Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:


It is also not a "Chip Van" rubber distro and looks gig worthy.


What do you consider the problem with "rubber" distros?
Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
Back to Top
imageoven View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 28 March 2007
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 2165 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imageoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2021 at 10:24am
Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:

 I'd get someone with an MFT to do this and provide insulation and L-E/L-N  PFC results for every outlet.


How is L-E/L-N  PFC measured for a portable device? if connected to a supply then the results are going to be dependent on the supplies PFC? or is it a case of measuring the supply without the distro and subtracting one from another?
Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
Back to Top
Boxes-R-Blue View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 11 December 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boxes-R-Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2021 at 8:26pm
PFC test are a great way to check all your Screws are tight and you have no corroded terminals.

Grab the PFC @ the input and check near to none of it clears off in the box.

Ideally use a 3pne supply (16A will do, does have to be 63A) as you can confirm phase correct reference with your polarity checks but even with a 13A > 63A 3PNE socket PFC checks really show if the thing is good to go, just variance is enough to be useful.

Obviously an MFT will do your RCBOs too and I do a little EIC for all my distros, when someone asked is it PAT (tested) you can say yes, but that isn't really relevant, but email them a complete test sheet, with circuit schedule and results, it kinda show you take stuff seriously and in 99.999% of circumstances will be the last conversation about your electrical kit! :-)



Edited by Boxes-R-Blue - 22 April 2021 at 8:31pm
Kinda Been there, Kinda done that, YOU COULDN'T handle my bar bill!
Back to Top
Boxes-R-Blue View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 11 December 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boxes-R-Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2021 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by imageoven imageoven wrote:

Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:


It is also not a "Chip Van" rubber distro and looks gig worthy.


What do you consider the problem with "rubber" distros?

Nothing if you own burger vans, for gigs they are awkward (crap sticking in all direction for some of them) have stupid flaps over the breakers, usually no metering and really best not on a stage.

For outdoor stuff they aren't waterproof by any stretch so you are better off with Rack kit in a power cabin (pop up gazebo or pref an iso container to lock out the dimlo population) they are just poverty really.......
Kinda Been there, Kinda done that, YOU COULDN'T handle my bar bill!
Back to Top
mk2_ginger_biscuit69 View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 03 November 2008
Location: Brighton
Status: Offline
Points: 7801 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2021 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:

Originally posted by imageoven imageoven wrote:

Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:


It is also not a "Chip Van" rubber distro and looks gig worthy.


What do you consider the problem with "rubber" distros?

Nothing if you own burger vans, for gigs they are awkward (crap sticking in all direction for some of them) have stupid flaps over the breakers, usually no metering and really best not on a stage.

For outdoor stuff they aren't waterproof by any stretch so you are better off with Rack kit in a power cabin (pop up gazebo or pref an iso container to lock out the dimlo population) they are just poverty really.......



what a load of crap. Putting non outdoor key power distro in a popup gazebo LOL. Rubber box distros for chipvans LOL.



''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it''

''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''
Back to Top
imageoven View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 28 March 2007
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 2165 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imageoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2021 at 7:57am
Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:


Grab the PFC @ the input and check near to none of it clears off in the box.

Not quite sure what you're saying there?

Do you mean measuring at the supply without the distro' and then at each outlet and subtracting one from another?




Edited by imageoven - 23 April 2021 at 8:59am
Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
Back to Top
Boxes-R-Blue View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 11 December 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boxes-R-Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2021 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 mk2_ginger_biscuit69 wrote:

Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:

Originally posted by imageoven imageoven wrote:

Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:


It is also not a "Chip Van" rubber distro and looks gig worthy.


What do you consider the problem with "rubber" distros?

Nothing if you own burger vans, for gigs they are awkward (crap sticking in all direction for some of them) have stupid flaps over the breakers, usually no metering and really best not on a stage.

For outdoor stuff they aren't waterproof by any stretch so you are better off with Rack kit in a power cabin (pop up gazebo or pref an iso container to lock out the dimlo population) they are just poverty really.......



what a load of crap. Putting non outdoor key power distro in a popup gazebo LOL. Rubber box distros for chipvans LOL.





"Outdoor Distro" all leaks and nuisance trips.

Proper kit in a dry space is better, end of!

And whilst I don't use gayzeebos I would sooner be seen with one of those than a chip van distro....!
Kinda Been there, Kinda done that, YOU COULDN'T handle my bar bill!
Back to Top
Boxes-R-Blue View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 11 December 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 146 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boxes-R-Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2021 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by imageoven imageoven wrote:

Originally posted by Boxes-R-Blue Boxes-R-Blue wrote:


Grab the PFC @ the input and check near to none of it clears off in the box.

Not quite sure what you're saying there?

Do you mean measuring at the supply without the distro' and then at each outlet and subtracting one from another?



Grab PFC = measure PFC @ input six times (L1 P-N, P-E, L2 P-N, P-E, etc) 
then make the same tests on every output.

If 1 is on L1 and L1 give 1600A L-N and 1350A L-E given 3-400mm of cable you wouldn't want to see less than 95% of that @ output and you would def want to see the L-N <> L-E ratio as near the same (or better as most supplies have a lower earth (CPC as I think it may be now to hipsters) conductor size than L & N and distro are wires in Tri-rate with the same CSA for L, N & E)  again numbers are academic (unless you find no earth on the supply (more common than you may think!) as you can still check you kit is passing all the nice electrons thru.....
Kinda Been there, Kinda done that, YOU COULDN'T handle my bar bill!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.077 seconds.