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Powersoft X4 real power

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U.Viktor View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2017 at 8:00pm
Need to bridge two channels of X4 to deliver similar (peak) power than the K20.
Please keep in mind that the X4 has 160VDC rails, while the K20 is around 240VDC.
It is a huge, HUGE difference!
Another weirdness is that single phase powered K10/K20 drops less with 50ms burst than bridged X4(with 3x400Vac mains!)  in stereo mode ;_(

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hvedstrup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2017 at 8:38am
I still don't get the Powersoft bashing.
They work very well and are the chosen tool of many big players and installs.
 
Find me one amp that can Power 8-channels of subs like a X8 please and one that can simply play sub like a K20. Not measurements but real world scenarios.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2017 at 1:13am
Originally posted by spongebob spongebob wrote:

Fair point, but it's still gonna be double the resistance with the new amp by definition


And by same definition and the data presented here the boxes get less 'real watts' yet they are more dynamic, deeper, warmer, not struggling with demanding bass content, and the owner is happy enough to not go back to the K20. I personally would rather keep the headroom but the evidence is there, a well respected, world renowned, heavyweight rig is using an amp that apparently is only good for HF at best…

It's almost like people are designing amps to work with the content and clients that they're doing rather than chasing numbers for a spec sheet?

Odd that.

Edited by toastyghost - 07 September 2017 at 1:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 4AC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2017 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

I still don't get the Powersoft bashing.

Welcome to the wonderful world of 'internet'.

People are bashing everything and everyone. Which is not merely a bad thing Smile

Same story with Lab.Gruppen amplifiers, apparantly they all lack on bass... 
uǝɿɿɐʌǝ6ɯo sı ʇsʞǝʇ ǝzǝp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spongebob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2017 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by spongebob spongebob wrote:

Fair point, but it's still gonna be double the resistance with the new amp by definition


And by same definition and the data presented here the boxes get less 'real watts' yet they are more dynamic, deeper, warmer, not struggling with demanding bass content, and the owner is happy enough to not go back to the K20. I personally would rather keep the headroom but the evidence is there, a well respected, world renowned, heavyweight rig is using an amp that apparently is only good for HF at best…

It's almost like people are designing amps to work with the content and clients that they're doing rather than chasing numbers for a spec sheet?

Odd that.


I'm not bashing either amp here, they're probably awesome (never used them myself!) I was just noting that perhaps SOME element of the positive change could be down to running only two drivers in parallel instead of four
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Father-Francis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2017 at 7:18am

Welcome to the wonderful world of 'internet'.

People are bashing everything and everyone. Which is not merely a bad thing Smile

Same story with Lab.Gruppen amplifiers, apparantly they all lack on bass... 
[/QUOTE]
Thats very true Lab's can't do bass , in fact the lab copies are much better on bass ,
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobinMatrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2017 at 3:18pm
I disagree that people are "bashing" ... and the Lab's do fine .. they have some very nice qualities, especially their PFC and control systems ...  but it is important to appreciate that they have limits, and to understand those limits.

If you are happy with those limits and they work for your use case, great, happy days :)

Personally, I still think there is a gap in the market for a nice big bass amp that can make full use of the larger drivers becoming available, and drive them to limits as I don't believe the current amps in the market place are truly capable of doing, but that's just a personal opinion, and not a criticism or "bashing". 

There are some very capable speakers out there now,  6" voice coils, big neo magnets and thermal capabilites of 2000W a driver, looking for 4000W of music and peaks of in excess of 6kw into 4R ...  which in my simple view means if you are going to hang 4 of them off an amp, you need a bit more than 2000 odd watts of average power to get the best out of them, but that's just my  personal opinion .. I could of course be completely wrong.


Edited by RobinMatrix - 11 September 2017 at 3:19pm
Matrix Pro Audio ::http://matrixproaudio.com/"
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2017 at 12:26am
For those that are curious, the XTA APA - an amp considered to be able to produce 'real power' compared to it's published specs, handily shows it's own continuous bench sine wave output ratings in the operators manual, page 60/61:
http://www.audiocore.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/APA-Operators-Manual-Version-1p1.pdf

To save you some time, it's 4x 750w.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2017 at 10:51am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

For those that are curious, the XTA APA - an amp considered to be able to produce 'real power' compared to it's published specs, handily shows it's own continuous bench sine wave output ratings in the operators manual, page 60/61:
http://www.audiocore.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/APA-Operators-Manual-Version-1p1.pdf

To save you some time, it's 4x 750w.


"The RMS value of the dispensed performance amounted to 4 × 400 W and reduced itself during the 15-minute test to 4 × 270 W. At the end of the 15 minutes, the amplifier showed an operating temperature of 63°C. "" That's X4.

In the real world Toasty, 750W for over an hour is more than 270W after 15 mins.

Read the context and don't pick up some random numbers.
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U.Viktor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2017 at 11:56am
There is nothing wrong with temperature of 63°C.
Today's power semiconductors are 150 or 175°C rated, few of them are even higher...

The problem is the 4 x 270W, this is OK for a narrow range of applications only.


The X4 sold as 4 X 5000W amp, but the 4 x 270W sustained performance is OK only for a 4 X 1000W amp.
(still some of the 4 x 1000W amps can do more...)
That is the ugly.


Edited by U.Viktor - 18 September 2017 at 12:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Father-Francis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 4:44pm
Nice amp this , now after listening to what people say , I think best to just try stuff on me own . May end up with K20 on kicks and X4 for subs . This place is sometimes full of fake news .
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2017 at 7:52pm
Please share your experience.
Marjan Milosevic
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