Powersoft X4 real power |
Post Reply | Page <1 1920212223 24> |
Author | ||
Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2716 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Id say the opposite, high voltage rails and good limiters peak + RMS are the are the most useful tools to safely rinse every last dB out of a cabinet. If it does limit / reduce output a bit on the occasional sustained low crest factor section then not really the end of the world, less chance of cooking a coil.
|
||
James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
||
csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
off course, but i kind of think you miss my point. what you are talking about is doing it properly and relatively safely.
|
||
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
|
||
Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5175 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Exactly!
The common mistake that many assume is the loudspeaker is immune to damage due to offering a limiter. If the user forces a stronger signal into the limiter, the limiter will just reduce the peaks further until it offers a similar output level as the RMS.
It is similar to those assuming a HPF will prevent loudspeaker damage. All a HPF does is reduce lowest frequencies from passing through which, may be useful if the loudspeaker you are using is incapable of producing the rolled off frequencies without, a high dose of excursion based on the amount of power you are feeding it.
However, using the above method creates havoc to the voice coil for it relies on cone movement in order to extract the heat from the voice coil. When JBL first released the EON around 20 years ago, it used the cone excursion to not only reduce the voice coil from heating up but, to cool off the amplifier as well.
Best Regards, |
||
Elliot Thompson
|
||
Earplug
Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, true - like the dj´s that aren´t happy unless everything is in the red. I guess that it keeps the reconers and repair engineers in business. |
||
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
|
||
snowflake
Old Croc Joined: 29 December 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 3122 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I had always assumed that into a resistive load the RMS power was equivalent to the real power. so are people defining RMS power as the power that would theoretically be delivered by a sine wave signal with same peak voltage as the actual signal (which is not a sine wave)? PP
|
||
Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2716 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes basically that is what they are doing, peak voltage x 0.707. But the test signals are often sine waves with duty cycle. EG when a manufacturer specs 1000Wrms@8ohms 6dB crest factor, it might be a 1KHz sine wave but with 50% duty cycle, 1ms on / 1ms off, then they take the RMS voltage of the sine wave when its on (89.4V) and calculate the 1000Wrms@8ohms power with that. RMS means Route Mean Squared, it does not mean continual power, or real heating power. |
||
James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
||
U.Viktor
Young Croc Joined: 04 May 2010 Status: Offline Points: 716 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I was unable to measure even ~400W continuous per channel on the X4, if I remember correctly. If Powersoft says X4 is a 4* 1600W amp.. it could be OK! But keep in mind it sold as 4* 5000W amp, total 20000Watts which are very, very far from the reality. This is the only thing what is disturbing me.
|
||
Earplug
Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
"RMS means Route Mean Squared, it does not mean continual power, or real heating power." No, Root Mean Square means exactly that! Here: Edited by Earplug - 13 September 2019 at 12:24pm |
||
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
|
||
Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2716 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Its not the same as long term heating power / real power, or it is not with a signal other than a continual sinewave. Its the RMS voltage of the sine wave while it is playing, but not long term.
|
||
James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
||
snowflake
Old Croc Joined: 29 December 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 3122 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
edit
Edited by snowflake - 13 September 2019 at 2:52pm |
||
toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'll trust PP's tests over yours, thanks. Also, they very clearly do not state that power is continuous sine wave, because as discussed, the real world does not require almost anybody to actually power that. When they do, they commission a K22 from Powersoft... if you don't know what that is, you don't need to know. 6dB crestfactor noise bursts of 200ms (AES) or 500ms (Meyer) are a much more usable measurement figure, for the real world of compressed, heavy dance music. 12dB crestfactor for these periods is indicative of almost everything else. Where the issues really lie, for me, are with amps like the LA12X that use only 8ms and 20ms bursts for their ratings. Sadly the XTA APA4E8 hasn't been reviewed by PP, but I have gone through their own spec sheet in detail. It has a lot of storage capacity internally, and the output side is super strong, but the limit is still going to be the power supply - perfectly reasonable, given the focus on touring, and the real world. Let's have a look at some world-class touring 4 channel amps, shall we? Sinus goes first, various burst signals second. XTA APA4E8 All channels driven (230V) RMS sine wave long term continuous power with all channels run simultaneously (over an hour assuming 20 degree ambient) 3000 W (4*750W) one hour Lab Gruppen PLM12K44 L'Acoustics LA12X aka CAMCO Q-POWER14 d&b D20 - no measurements of D80 Linea Research 44M20 Powersoft X4 And here's some info on XTA's test types, which are close to PP's, and why: Isn't data lovely? Edited by toastyghost - 13 September 2019 at 3:21pm |
||
toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Found d&b D80, way back in March 2014:
|
||
Post Reply | Page <1 1920212223 24> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |