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pre-built battery powered PA speakers.. advice?

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alphabetikal View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 March 2013 at 12:35pm
Thanks for checking this thread.

I need to advise a friend on a system to buy <£300 which will be able to serve a mic input as well as a music input (simultaneously, to avoid constant changing over) for demos and public speaking etc.

It will be used mostly in the street, so needs to be able to get over the traffic noise with both music and voice (not together). I dont know, but im guessing 30-50W RMS will be enough. Does not need to be stereo.

The battery needs to last 4+ hours minimum. Weight should be less than 15-25 kg so it can be taken on the bus/metro etc (with a trolley if necessary)

I know this is a DIY forum but im looking for advice from people who might know the current 'market' for portable battery powered PA speakers. Currently we just dont have  time to build and refine another DIY rig (unless anyone wants to do it for us !!)

Ive seen Samsons XP40i effort, looks interesting. Anyone know if its any good?
How about these shite QTX things on ebay?
Roland? Might be a bit pricey.

Thanks in advance

A


Edited by alphabetikal - 19 March 2013 at 12:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2013 at 3:42pm
RCF Move 100v 
Opera 110 mobile

These are about the only two commercial options I know of that will fulfill your requirements, both are capable of achieving approx 117dB in peak (at least on paper, reality is probably a few decibels less)

That's about 10dB higher than the average competetion - and I'd be surprised if the 6" Samson you linked to even managed that (-10dB I mean)

I managed to import a Move 100 from Europe a few years ago and paid not much more than 300 quid - I was very impressed to be honest, the quality was great as you'd expect from RCF but they are not easy to find - I did a quick search on Google and I can't find any web shop selling them now, even in Europe, let alone UK. It's worth looking into though, in case you can find one place that still sells them.

The Opera 110 mobile is unfortunately quite a lot more than your price range.. but for <300 you're limiting yourself to basically: Plastic crap-in-a-box (ie QTX, Soundlab etc), or one of the smaller 5-6" models, which are definitely good in their own way, but although it will be easily heard above traffic noise, it still very much has the feeling of "bloke carrying a rather loud boombox" rather than "PA system moving down the road"

Samson also does a larger portable model (10 or 12") which is worth a hunt for also.

I really recommend spending the extra if you can, or look for one of the above recommended models on the used market - they do appear occasionally - even if it's about 100 or so over budget, or takes a bit longer to find it, it will be like having a stack of 4 or 6 of those smaller devices, which is more than worth the extra spent.

Failing that it's really not at all hard to DIY something like this, if you're not absolutely set on buying a commercial model.

For your 300 pound budget you could buy two reasonable quality 10-12" passive boxes that you could strap to a sack cart (some of the newer ones with pneumatic wheels are very good for street use, I carried two 30kg boxes on one with no difficulty whatsoever and I'm a scrawny little.. well, I'm not strong let's say :D)

A lot of typical speaker boxes will give you 98dB per watt of input, so two 4ohm boxes and a Lepai 2020 amp could give you that same 117dB output, so there needn't be much specific building involved, just strap the bits to a cart, hook up the wires and done.


...All that said, I should say that I've not actually heard the Samson 6" but have used a couple of similarly sized and priced devices and the results were less than ideal, but I've heard a lot of buskers using the Opera 110 and it always impressed, plenty of "real" bass and very loud, and the RCF although slightly thinner bass had a really good sound for an off the shelf portable box.


And one last word on the QTX and similar boxes, having heard several of these being used during the Occupy protests, it's important to note that they will be *completely* unusable without a dedicated external microphone pre-amp. Plug a microphone directly into the box and it will be too quiet for even a group of 20 people to hear clearly - shouting with cupped hands is louder :D

Another important consideration if it's going to be used for demos and protests is that a pole mount attachment is a basic requirement - it's harder than you think to create or otherwise summon up a portable 2 metre pedestal for an un-mountable speaker, and without that height the vocal intelligibility drops off considerably when addressing any larger crowd - particularly a more energetic one where half of them aren't really listening and the other half are stuck in a police kettle ;)


Edited by Hemisphere - 19 March 2013 at 4:11pm
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alphabetikal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphabetikal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2013 at 10:38am
Thanks Hem for all this info!!!! VERY useful.

I had my doubts about the naughty QTX boxes. Good to know you have experience of hearing them in Occupy and that they are lumps of shit. I will avoid.

The opera system looks interesting for 500. Ill ask the buyers what they think.

About the RCF move 100 - seems to be not available - only the RCF 60 which is a small driver.

I built a DIY 24v system based on the Sure 100w amp with a 12inch eminence woofer. This made me realise that the bigger drivers really make a difference in crowded and noisy outdoor environments. It does the job really well in a crowded street - you can hear that thing for miles!!! haha

Where did you hear about the Samson 10-12 inch driver models?

About bodging together a system with a Lepai amp - I appreciate that idea but the people running the system need a more robust solution with no loose wiring etc. It will end up failing somehow which is not an option! :) Also they will have to lug about a separate battery (or 2) and connect it up etc - not ideal.

Thanks again for your info - any extra ideas let me know

A


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2013 at 5:43pm
http://www.e-av.co.uk/pa-speakers/samson-xpl300-portable-powered-pa-system

Both the XPL200 and the XPL300 have the option of battery operation and they have a 250w amp inside, and considering speech really isn't very taxing on amp power that headroom could potentially come in handy without being a limitation.

They don't come with a battery as standard and you're expected to buy the extra "battery module" - an extra 140 quid! 

However if as I suspect, the "battery module" is just a fancily packaged SLA designed to fit inside the box, it might be feasible to hook up a 3rd party battery externally. The box itself has a "battery level VU" on the back so that implies that the hardware for charging and suchlike is probably built in. It's hard to know without seeing it though, there may be some more info available online.

http://www.studiospares.com/pa-speakers/samson-xp200-active-speaker-x1-was-ex20/invt/415380?source=215_74&gclid=CMnJ0MXui7YCFcbKtAodwmIAiw

And there's another option, and the battery module there slightly cheaper. There are a few more model numbers to look for: EX20, EX30, EX250a. 

Although I've not heard any of these, you can tell these ones are the real deal from the descriptions alone imo: Active crossover, built in limiter, 85% efficient Class D amp section, 200w RMS, extensive internal bracing etc. You could theoretically even upgrade it later - switch out the tweeter for a BMS4524 and the woofer for any half decent 12" and you'd have a very tidy, loud, professional portable setup (well the tweeter would need EQ'ing down a bit but would really help efficiency/battery life for speech, and be night and day quality change)


Edited by Hemisphere - 20 March 2013 at 6:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2013 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by alphabetikal alphabetikal wrote:

I had my doubts about the naughty QTX boxes. Good to know you have experience of hearing them in Occupy and that they are lumps of shit. I will avoid.


I've encountered one of the QTX things .... bunch of yoofs round here have/had one ...

Doesn't do too badly actually for playing music. No experience of the mic side of things though.
Pretty sure it'll come with a lucky-bag-grade wireless mic ... oh and a horrible little remote control thingy.

Last time I saw it, it looked like it had been through the wars a bit - was still working though.

N.B. The QTX thing has "suitcase-style" built-in tiny wheels .... OK for wheeling across smooth floors etc. ..... but no good for wheeling around streets/pavements. The yoofs round here managed to bodge a pair of wheels from a granny trolley or summat on to it




Edited by slaz - 20 March 2013 at 6:25pm
REMEMBER....POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphabetikal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 10:25am
Both the XPL200 and the XPL300 seem very good for the money.
They look solid and can also operate off mains. Interestingly a pair can be hooked up- that would be useful for events.

Slaz - thats a good point - need mega wheels

Would there be a way to calculate the battery life? 

One magicians (lol) forum I found says 3-4 hours
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mr. doom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 2:14pm
Too bad they no longer make them. Just the smaller XP 40(watt) with the 6" woofer.

RCF Move 100v? Did they ever sell them? 120db from 2x8" off 12v would be tits.

The DB Opera looks good but it is still a bit expensive and not common (in the US especially) 

We are left with the pitiful portable picnic players from Roland/Alesis/Pyle/Califone and overpriced Anchor/Amplivox/VocoPro systems. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by mr. doom mr. doom wrote:

Too bad they no longer make them. Just the smaller XP 40(watt) with the 6" woofer.

RCF Move 100v? Did they ever sell them? 120db from 2x8" off 12v would be tits.

The DB Opera looks good but it is still a bit expensive and not common (in the US especially) 

We are left with the pitiful portable picnic players from Roland/Alesis/Pyle/Califone and overpriced Anchor/Amplivox/VocoPro systems. 


Yea. I had one that I managed to get on a special offer from an Italian web store that was already cheap anyway (as they're made there I guess?) - as I said, a little over 300 quid but that was about 5 years ago. It weighed about 11.5kg, battery lasted ~4-5 hours, was very loud, only criticism being the bass felt a little thin (rated to 80hz I think), especially as it was typically used outdoors.

I managed to fit it inside a massive hiking rucksack which was pretty epic :D broke some electrical component (in the charger I think) through misuse at one point and shortly after that it got nicked :( good times though. 

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=99615.0

Some discussion I made about it back then, according to "me", it was retailing for 800 euros even back then, so it was never a cheap thing. I think some places still sell it for that much, but I don't think it's worth the extra over the Opera or Samsons, only if you can find it in a similar price range then it's almost certainly better.


Edited by Hemisphere - 21 March 2013 at 5:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 5:06pm
I just remembered there is one more reasonably priced good quality commercial unit.. might have been by LD, it was also in the 300-500 price range and made out of wood even, quality components. The quest continues :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mr. doom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 5:12pm
I could have used a unit like the RCF for weddings and it would matched my Art310's as a monitor. Maybe a used one will pop up on the e-bay.

  Here in the US you can get this for $540, it is nothing spectacular from what I have read .http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/S400D


The 2ohm drivers in the JBL PRX speakers lend themselves well to getting the most from small class-d amps, downside is they are not widely available and then tend to make the amp run hot. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphabetikal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2013 at 12:47pm
maybe it was LD roadman 102 - its £800 though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwu4N8ne05U

WHY am I starting to think QTX is  a good idea????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amlu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2013 at 12:51pm
why not DIY way? takes bit of time to order everthing on the net, then a weekend to put it together.
results WILL be better than anything from the shops on a given budget...
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