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PKN H8

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Topic: PKN H8
Posted By: Guests
Subject: PKN H8
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 8:14am
http://www.pknaudio.com/H8.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.pknaudio.com/H8.html

who got the infos??



Replies:
Posted By: Tonskulus
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 3:57pm
Weird. Somekind of fullbridge circuit (btw, just like any amplifier in bridge mode). But why is there extra mosfets in series?   Just to make it cool "v8"?
C1 and C3.... what a heck is going on there :D 



Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 3:59pm
Yeah schematic suggests a four channel amp set permanently to full bridge, leaving two channels. Which is a fairly common design?


Posted By: Tonskulus
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 4:03pm
However, any output power advantages there is not.. whatever circuit it is.  There is no V8 sound like V8 car engines does :)

There is just no point making output stage too complex for no actual reason, while you can just use traditional halfbridges, parallel connected fets for current handling, enough supply voltage and be happy.
 





Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 4:22pm
hahaha the engine thing has only just been placed on there hahahaha. id be interested to see one though :)


Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 4:28pm
To me that looks like what friend of mine did long time ago. 4 "amps" and PSUs driving one output, doing 90 degrees of the cycle on each stage. That allows full RMS power on fairly high levels, like 5-6kW true RMS per channel.



Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 4:37pm
When you get to very high powers, you have to start being clever.  The 'simple' topologies start showing their limitations.

For example the power dissipation in the intrinsic body diode of a MOSFET can become significant if you don't provide an alternative reverse conduction route.


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 7:57pm
As I heard PKN has succeded in bringing multi-level inverter technology for audio amplifier.
The circuitry displayed is something like that...

Multi-Level Inverters with proper modulation are known for their very high output waveform quality but they are super expensive, too complex, filling 2 rooms and I have not seen smaller that few tens of Million Watts yet :-D




Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by Tonskulus Tonskulus wrote:

However, any output power advantages there is not.. whatever circuit it is.  There is no V8 sound like V8 car engines does :)

There is just no point making output stage too complex for no actual reason, while you can just use traditional halfbridges, parallel connected fets for current handling, enough supply voltage and be happy.
 


Sure it is! Maybe the best representation what is going on inside the circuit really is the V8 engine with 8 pistons.
There are exactly same reasons why 8 pistons with same crankshaft RPM are more responsive, balanced (less vibrations) plus four times of power than 2 piston engine. This is why the 500HP+ sportscar are usually in V8 piston configuration. If the pistons represents the power switches all you need to do is just a proper sequence to fire them!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 8:34am
even though we don't know what it is yet, i want one


Posted By: JonB67
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Pasi Pasi wrote:

To me that looks like what friend of mine did long time ago. 4 "amps" and PSUs driving one output, doing 90 degrees of the cycle on each stage. That allows full RMS power on fairly high levels, like 5-6kW true RMS per channel.



If they're reducing the amount of the cycle that each amp does to and therefore using more amps on a single output the v8 analogy makes sense.

Thats clearly my my knowledge of cars and not amplifiers talking though....


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:13am
Polyphase and interleaving is common in large switchmode power supplies.  Since ClassD amplifiers are very closely related it would seem to be a logical step.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 October 2017 at 10:35pm
PKN H8 is coming soon! Worldwide best switching amplifier technology with 1MS/s+ sample rate, exceptional signal accuracy & pulse response in fully
symmetrical configuration at very high power levels by PKN Audio. Stay tuned for updates.


Basic features of PKN H8 technology:

- First affordable multilevel high-power professional audio amplifier brings the advantages of multilevel inverter technology into the proaudio fileld

- Improved reliability due lower, distributed losses over 8 power processing elements instead of 2 (typical for common Class-D amplifiers)

- Exceptional signal accuracy due advanced multilevel & multiphase PKN H8 modulation, fixed frequency operation

- Effective sample rates over 1000KS/s directly from the analog signal input

- True output U/I feedback loop(s) for fully load independent frequency response

- Improved large signal bandwidth and pulse response, at least twice of useful frequency range compared to Class-D

- Power of 8 switching elements added therefore suitable for the upper power range, above 5000W/ch on 4Ω

- NO 'common rail' structure , overload on one channel does not immediately influence the others

- Very high power conversion efficiency, less than 1/4 of the losses compared to conventional Class-D

- Full reactive load and energy recycling capability, Class-D 'bus pumping effect' eliminated, good low frequency response down to DC

- Wider useful bandwidth allows larger loop-Gain of control therefore damping factor over 10000(@50Hz and bellow) becomes possible

- Advanced user programmable NoClip/U/I limiters for each individual channels

- Worldwide operational ability with matching Universal mains PFC power supply


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 25 October 2017 at 12:36am
I'm just wondering will it handle scoops!!?


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 25 October 2017 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:

PKN H8 is coming soon! Worldwide best switching amplifier technology with 1MS/s+ sample rate, exceptional signal accuracy & pulse response in fully
symmetrical configuration at very high power levels by PKN Audio. Stay tuned for updates.


Basic features of PKN H8 technology:

- First affordable multilevel high-power professional audio amplifier brings the advantages of multilevel inverter technology into the proaudio fileld

- Improved reliability due lower, distributed losses over 8 power processing elements instead of 2 (typical for common Class-D amplifiers)

- Exceptional signal accuracy due advanced multilevel & multiphase PKN H8 modulation, fixed frequency operation

- Effective sample rates over 1000KS/s directly from the analog signal input

- True output U/I feedback loop(s) for fully load independent frequency response

- Improved large signal bandwidth and pulse response, at least twice of useful frequency range compared to Class-D

- Power of 8 switching elements added therefore suitable for the upper power range, above 5000W/ch on 4Ω

- NO 'common rail' structure , overload on one channel does not immediately influence the others

- Very high power conversion efficiency, less than 1/4 of the losses compared to conventional Class-D

- Full reactive load and energy recycling capability, Class-D 'bus pumping effect' eliminated, good low frequency response down to DC

- Wider useful bandwidth allows larger loop-Gain of control therefore damping factor over 10000(@50Hz and bellow) becomes possible

- Advanced user programmable NoClip/U/I limiters for each individual channels

- Worldwide operational ability with matching Universal mains PFC power supply


I'll believe it when I see one sold – unlike the mythical 3PHASE and XE10000…


Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 07 November 2017 at 8:55am
I wasn't allowed to buy PKN they told me to uck off.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18 November 2017 at 10:50am
http://www.pknc.com/doc/PKN_H8_whitepaper_EN.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.pknc.com/doc/PKN_H8_whitepaper_EN.pdf

White paper is out


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 18 November 2017 at 1:09pm
Just informed my friends had a demo H8 months ago, sounds like class A but the headroom and power is on steroids!

Still I can not figure out how would it be "affordable or economical" while has four times the components inside?
The V8 engine is a good example, neither of them called cheap!  :-D



Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 19 November 2017 at 5:50am
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Just informed my friends had a demo H8 months ago, sounds like class A but the headroom and power is on steroids!

Still I can not figure out how would it be "affordable or economical" while has four times the components inside?
The V8 engine is a good example, neither of them called cheap!  :-D




It’ll be affordable because you won’t be able to buy it.


Posted By: MPASOUND
Date Posted: 20 November 2017 at 10:43am
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Just informed my friends had a demo H8 months ago, sounds like class A but the headroom and power is on steroids!


I love how excited people get with new stuff! I'm sure it's very good but when was the last time anyone heard a PA system on a Class A amp to make that kind of comparison? 


-------------
It's just bits of paper flapping about in a box.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 20 November 2017 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by MPASOUND MPASOUND wrote:

Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Just informed my friends had a demo H8 months ago, sounds like class A but the headroom and power is on steroids!




I love how excited people get with new stuff! I'm sure it's very good but when was the last time anyone heard a PA system on a Class A amp to make that kind of comparison? 


I did. Today.


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 6:46pm
I saw and hear it. Not much different look than xe10000 from outside.
10KHZ triangle wave is still triangle at 2 Ohms and 10KW/ch.
goes down to DC. [0Hz..] ..  :-D

the 100A one phase mains connector bit strange


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 7:04pm
PKN H8-18002U (2x 5500W @4Ω | 2x 9200W @2Ω)

I wonder if there are further models and any DSP?


Posted By: Franz Francis
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 7:53pm
Is it stable into a full time two ohm load for several hours or for the duration of the gig? 

Franz


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 8:56am
Probably not only stable but this is going to be the strongest yet best sounding amp one phase mains powered!
I will have some for testing soon, let me report my findings then.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 12:44pm
Can it do subs? :-)
I love the XE6000 on my top boxes, but on sub duty...


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 6:33pm
Some saying with deeper understanding in electronics that this is the biggest thing since Class-D.


Posted By: djeddie
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

...the 100A one phase mains connector bit strange


100A? At 240V that equates to a 25mm2 cable (per conductor).
Amp size and weight might be going down, but the cables we carry is going up!!!


-------------
Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.             E=mc² ±3dB


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:13am
Talk to me when someone has actually been able to buy one.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:14am
Originally posted by djeddie djeddie wrote:

Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

...the 100A one phase mains connector bit strange


100A? At 240V that equates to a 25mm2 cable (per conductor).
Amp size and weight might be going down, but the cables we carry is going up!!!


Yeah mate I need 125A 3ph just for my sub amps.


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 24 April 2018 at 8:42pm
Correction:
1. 100A mains for 110Vac
2.   63A mains for 230Vac..

These are the maximum line current values as far as I informed to this date.
It has fancy mains current limiter too, so theoretically *could run on ANY fuse*
but probably penalty of continuous power.

Who does remember what was the max. line current measured of Powersoft K20 on strong 230Vac? Around 30A?
Am I right?


Posted By: Ricci
Date Posted: 02 May 2018 at 4:34pm
32A average draw is the maximum for the K20. Peak draw can be substantially higher. 




Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Talk to me when someone has actually been able to buy one.

This.


I inquired with PKN about the 3-Phase line and never got any response to repeated emails. There doesn't seem to be any availability in North America. 


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 July 2018 at 11:14pm
Full spec out

http://www.pknaudio.com/H8_eng.html
Price: €3778 inc +27% Hungarian VAT | €2975 ex VAT


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 12:45pm
Any shots of a REAL unit not a render?

Any gigs?

Peter Papp - I know you read this. I'd love to direct A-B your amp against the K20 and can do it at Dimensions and Outlook. Let me know if you want a truly unbiased oppotunity, I will gladly say which is the better unit on power etc. Not known for pulling my punches.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 12:59pm
Info etc appears to be coming slowly but steadily - anyone want to throw together for a unit??


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 1:05pm


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 1:19pm
Will it work at 2 ohm?
I have 2x21 beasts coming that need to sort power for them :-)



-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 1:21pm
table says minimum load impedance is 0.5ohm, and they quote max power figures at 2ohm, so i'd say yes most likely - however it remains to be heard...and seen


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 2:29pm
Typical mains requirement 6A???

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 2:29pm
It is like the Powersoft K20 but:

+ Stronger power supply
+ 30% more Joules inside
+ Sound character is very different
+ Big display

- without dual DC rails <--- Bus pumping in the K20 bellow 100Hz (!)
- less deep case
- Without "Class-D" sound (not everyone likes the sound character of K series) :-D

I will have more info soon


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Typical mains requirement 6A???


music signal


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 23 July 2018 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Typical mains requirement 6A???


music signal


I saw personally a 100A PHOENIX Connector on this amp.
Likely they have miss-typed something :-)

The XE10000 pulls 10-16A from the line for me with very modest music,
the H8 must be twice and little bit more, minimum.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 24 July 2018 at 8:42am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Any shots of a REAL unit not a render?

Any gigs?

Peter Papp - I know you read this. I'd love to direct A-B your amp against the K20 and can do it at Dimensions and Outlook. Let me know if you want a truly unbiased oppotunity, I will gladly say which is the better unit on power etc. Not known for pulling my punches.


So no response to a real world test and review on a site with plenty of well regarded competing amps? There’s plenty of FFA 10k there. Hell I can even take an Inf 8v2 and measure the same cabinet with same voltage and subjective reviews, not like it’s shy of sound crews either...


Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 24 July 2018 at 10:29am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Any shots of a REAL unit not a render?

Any gigs?

Peter Papp - I know you read this. I'd love to direct A-B your amp against the K20 and can do it at Dimensions and Outlook. Let me know if you want a truly unbiased oppotunity, I will gladly say which is the better unit on power etc. Not known for pulling my punches.


So no response to a real world test and review on a site with plenty of well regarded competing amps? There’s plenty of FFA 10k there. Hell I can even take an Inf 8v2 and measure the same cabinet with same voltage and subjective reviews, not like it’s shy of sound crews either...

Of course not, but don't worry Victor is god in this department, if it's better than every other amp and it makes tea what more testing do you need Wink


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 July 2018 at 11:08am
Mr Papp

Last Visit:18 September 2017 at 12:37pm


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 July 2018 at 11:27am
I agree though it would be good to get a unit in the UK to be put through its paces. Especially at this stage where any potential issues could perhaps be ironed out early on (that spelling mistake on the xe series really winds me up). I have a rack full of 8x PKN amps and am very happy with them as they are, but this new tech looks (on paper) to be world's ahead.

Seems to me PKN need to get service available in the UK, but don't ever want to entertain the release of documents to support that. An NDA could take care of this.
If this issue was fixed even if it didn't quite stack up to the k20 (which I'm sure it will), they would likely sell very well because of their price point. But perhaps PKN are not bothered about shifting loads? Who knows.

If anyone (hint hint Andy) can direct Mr Papp to this thread that would be great. We have the speakers to take all this power!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29 July 2018 at 3:22pm


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29 July 2018 at 3:22pm
come on Mr Papp send us a H8 :)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29 July 2018 at 9:58pm


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 30 July 2018 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:

come on Mr Papp send us a H8 :)


I don’t think you can send something that only exists on paper. Otherwise I’ll expect it alongside a 3phase too, yeah?

Pretty easy to make nice bar graphs in Excel. Not so easy to actually deliver products. Anybody other than Viktor claiming to have seen a working XE10000 let alone used one? Got any photos or video, Viktor?

PKN seems like Hungarian for ‘vapourware’ to me at this stage. Shame.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 July 2018 at 5:19pm
Someone get Pappy in here to set the record straight

U.Viktor if your boys have one get some pics!


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 30 July 2018 at 5:53pm
Imagine hyping an amp before it was available...



Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 30 July 2018 at 6:56pm
Clap


-------------
Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 30 July 2018 at 7:04pm
There is a difference in what there can be built and what can be sold in real life.

For a passionate amplifier developer there is no problem in designing new and exceptional designs. The problem is if they are feasible in real life.

The PKN 40K amp is a beast but maybe it doesn't have enough market share if built to be sold in order to make it economical.

I find myself in the same spot as them. I can phisically build systems with no compromise (Danley style) but the market is not big enough in my country to justify doing it. It's just not echonomical.

Everybody wants 4x21" subs but nobody is really prepared to pay the right money for them. And this is just an example.

I think PKN recycled the technology in order to make the H8 which is a simpler version of that 20K and 40K they had a few years back.
The H8 would prepare the market for the real high power beasts.

I am a dealer for PKN in Romania and I am am a big fan of them. I will surely get the H8 as soon as it will be available. I hope by the end of the year I will be able to get my hands around one of those. 






-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 30 July 2018 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:

come on Mr Papp send us a H8 :)


I don’t think you can send something that only exists on paper. Otherwise I’ll expect it alongside a 3phase too, yeah?

Pretty easy to make nice bar graphs in Excel. Not so easy to actually deliver products. Anybody other than Viktor claiming to have seen a working XE10000 let alone used one? Got any photos or video, Viktor?

PKN seems like Hungarian for ‘vapourware’ to me at this stage. Shame.


I am sure that there are folks here who have XE10000 experience too, not only me.



Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 30 July 2018 at 8:20pm
Remove the cover of your amp, count the Capacitors x Voltage to obtain stored Energy.
That really means something! More energy on higher voltage is always better.
 You will be surprised how much larger packed amplifiers storing much smaller energy than PKNs!
But this pure simple physics, nothing more...


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 30 July 2018 at 9:07pm
Can we see this H8 capacitor bank please?

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 12:45am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Can we see this H8 capacitor bank please?
In fact any pictures that are meaningful... 


-------------
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 1:50am
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:

come on Mr Papp send us a H8 :)


I don’t think you can send something that only exists on paper. Otherwise I’ll expect it alongside a 3phase too, yeah?

Pretty easy to make nice bar graphs in Excel. Not so easy to actually deliver products. Anybody other than Viktor claiming to have seen a working XE10000 let alone used one? Got any photos or video, Viktor?

PKN seems like Hungarian for ‘vapourware’ to me at this stage. Shame.


I am sure that there are folks here who have XE10000 experience too, not only me.



I see absolutely zero of them. Including Google and Facebook searches. I do however see more than zero people saying they ask for them and they don’t seem to exist or even get a reply. And even you fail to share anything of meaning beyond some text. So forgive me for being even more sceptical than usual.

In the meantime, do you want to buy some of my new sub design? It’s only six inches cubed but does 172dB at 10m from 10Hz to 300Hz whilst only being fed from the ambient air pressure. My friend’s dog’s mother said they demolished the next village over when he used them...


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 1:51am
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

Imagine hyping an amp before it was available...



The irony is this unit was built, shown on a trade show, demonstrated working and then put on hold to be revised to add DSP - which proved unworkable in budget and time constraint so was shelved and that total timeframe was maybe one year tops. Again, anyone got a PHOTO of a working PKN 3PHASE? Surely they built even ONE UNIT over what, four years, tested it in the field? Got a rental house to do a report or give feedback?

That’s how you do pre release hype in a realistic manner. Or you shit can your project and go with a manufacturer who can deliver.

Mircea - a professional manufacturer does not post spec sheets and claim products are available on their site and trade shows and to their distribution chain and then go quiet when people try to place orders. You can make the best thing in the world but if you can’t deliver people go elsewhere. I like the XE6000, despite three out of four in my possession failing with some of the slowest and worst communication and service I’ve had, but not being able to meet a request for even a quote on dozens of units puts you off somewhat let alone promises of new bigger better that don’t come to fruition.

Did you hear much of anything before XTA APA, MC2 Delta, Linea 44 séries dropped?

Of course, welcome to prove me wrong, would love it in fact.

It might also surprise you which respected amp manufacturer is now using the very same Void prerelease tech with their existing DSP platform...


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 4:45pm
My experiences with PKN have been positive until now. Including the service for one amp. 
 I think it took about a week from the moment I've sent it in until it was delivered repaired to us. (and this was includding shipping!)






-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 5:04pm
kyle:  https://www.facebook.com/PKNaudio/videos/vb.208970079121713/1961820760503294/?type=2&theater" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/PKNaudio/videos/vb.208970079121713/1961820760503294/?type=2&theater


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:

kyle:  https://www.facebook.com/PKNaudio/videos/vb.208970079121713/1961820760503294/?type=2&theater" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/PKNaudio/videos/vb.208970079121713/1961820760503294/?type=2&theater
And for those of us that don't use stalkbook?


-------------
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 7:03pm
i don't use it.. and i can see the video and comments just fine..


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 7:12pm
I don't use it either but you can still see them without an account


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:

kyle:  https://www.facebook.com/PKNaudio/videos/vb.208970079121713/1961820760503294/?type=2&theater" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/PKNaudio/videos/vb.208970079121713/1961820760503294/?type=2&theater


Link goes nowhere, but what I do see from yesterday is them offering to sell direct undercutting their own dealers’ prices

Mircea - three months. Also UK owners have to pay export duty and another set of import duty on top of shipping for repair. Well, they don’t but that’s what was invoiced for. Along with the repair cost despite the fault being from manufacture.

anyway I’m done. I’ll see the amp launched at the same conference as Half Life 3 yeah?


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 7:29pm
Maybe they blocked you because of your views Kyle :) sign out of FB and try again


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

Imagine hyping an amp before it was available...



The irony is this unit was built, shown on a trade show, demonstrated working and then put on hold to be revised to add DSP - which proved unworkable in budget and time constraint so was shelved and that total timeframe was maybe one year tops. Again, anyone got a PHOTO of a working PKN 3PHASE? Surely they built even ONE UNIT over what, four years, tested it in the field? Got a rental house to do a report or give feedback?

That’s how you do pre release hype in a realistic manner. Or you shit can your project and go with a manufacturer who can deliver.

Mircea - a professional manufacturer does not post spec sheets and claim products are available on their site and trade shows and to their distribution chain and then go quiet when people try to place orders. You can make the best thing in the world but if you can’t deliver people go elsewhere. I like the XE6000, despite three out of four in my possession failing with some of the slowest and worst communication and service I’ve had, but not being able to meet a request for even a quote on dozens of units puts you off somewhat let alone promises of new bigger better that don’t come to fruition.

Did you hear much of anything before XTA APA, MC2 Delta, Linea 44 séries dropped?

Of course, welcome to prove me wrong, would love it in fact.

It might also surprise you which respected amp manufacturer is now using the very same Void prerelease tech with their existing DSP platform...

It was never Void technology, it was another attempted collaboration with an amp designer/manufacturer that went wrong....  I know exactly where that technology is now ;)
 


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 8:04pm
PKN has dropped some -30% of their prices due much larger production volumes < and maybe cheap HUF against EURO? >...
I have never paid more than 50 EUROs for repair of my PKN amps, even which badly left in the rain.
Other guys can confirm, that PKN service not only quick but has *cheapest* factory repairs!
( I would not say how much paid for pair of K10 got 380V..) 10X the price of..

I already have some grainy pictures somewhere but next time I will well document around inside-outside a H8 once I visit their site..


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 31 July 2018 at 10:40pm
You dont really want to hear my service experience with PKN. A nightmare that ended up costing me over 600 euros and 3 visits to the PKN service in Hungary to finally fix the amp.



-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 01 August 2018 at 6:36am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:

kyle:  https://www.facebook.com/PKNaudio/videos/vb.208970079121713/1961820760503294/?type=2&theater" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/PKNaudio/videos/vb.208970079121713/1961820760503294/?type=2&theater


Link goes nowhere, but what I do see from yesterday is them offering to sell direct undercutting their own dealers’ prices

Mircea - three months. Also UK owners have to pay export duty and another set of import duty on top of shipping for repair. Well, they don’t but that’s what was invoiced for. Along with the repair cost despite the fault being from manufacture.

anyway I’m done. I’ll see the amp launched at the same conference as Half Life 3 yeah?

Both the UK and Hungary are still in the EU, so I call that bullshit.
There is no Duty inside the EU


-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 01 August 2018 at 10:49am
Indeed so. Should have queried that for sure. You can also claim relief on duty when sending goods outside the EU for repair, although have not done it personally.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 01 August 2018 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by odc04r odc04r wrote:

Indeed so. Should have queried that for sure. You can also claim relief on duty when sending goods outside the EU for repair, although have not done it personally.


To be frank the amps were on loan from somebody and after they arrived in mid Feb and we finally heard back on the repair end of April it was a case of paying just to not have to think about it any more.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01 August 2018 at 2:47pm
Who you borrow them off Kyle? Was it that tenperature issue before the fix was widely known?


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 01 August 2018 at 4:59pm
I would wait little bit until this crazy busy festival season ends, I know 2-3 companies much bigger and more capable than me. They are contracted already for H8 testing, also have wider range of speakers as well as large inventory of Lab Gruppen and Powersoft gears (for comparasion).



Posted By: citizensc
Date Posted: 24 August 2018 at 12:56pm
Not sure if anyone has posted this in another thread yet but according to their website you can buy one now...  http://www.pknaudio.com/H8_eng.html  �" rel="nofollow - http://www.pknaudio.com/H8_eng.html    3950 euro + VAT


Edit: Image on the page looks like a render so I'm not holding my breath.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01 January 2019 at 7:39pm


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 02 January 2019 at 8:39am
Originally posted by freddymendez freddymendez wrote:



It has same form factor like XE series (not as deep for example Powersoft K10/20)
and 80A one phase mains connector :-D
Once you need more than let us say 1000Watts, it seriously beat anything you heard in sound quality (dynamics, resolution, headroom..) and not only on SUBs.


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 02 January 2019 at 10:12am
External amplifiers are so last century.

Active speakers!

I'll get my coat...

-------------
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 02 January 2019 at 11:40am
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

External amplifiers are so last century.

Active speakers!

I'll get my coat...


Yes and No!

The amplifiers you found in most (if not ALL..) of Active speakers are much lower capable, poorly made, lack of performance than proper external amps. I do not want to dive into technical details but I have seen ZERO properly designed amps in active speakers, not even in the most expensive ones!

Another untold story is that internal electronics, even placed into well-designed acoustically isolated chamber (to prevent harm due vibrations) have much much lower reliability than external electronics!


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 02 January 2019 at 12:22pm
You would say that, you sell external amplifiers.

*Puts on Flame Proof Suit*

-------------
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 02 January 2019 at 2:35pm
There is a really sad trajectory that cheap and poorly designed active boxes driven by ~49EURO or less amplifiers inside sold expensively of course with "heavy processing & linearization"  I do not like it.
I do not want to mention any brands, but once you check their active boxes inside with some basic knowledge how electronics work.. you will see what i am speaking.


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 02 January 2019 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

External amplifiers are so last century.

Active speakers!

I'll get my coat...



Do we need a 'Sarcastic' emoji here??  Confused Smile Confused




-------------
Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 11:10am
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

External amplifiers are so last century.

Active speakers!

I'll get my coat...


Yes and No!

The amplifiers you found in most (if not ALL..) of Active speakers are much lower capable, poorly made, lack of performance than proper external amps. I do not want to dive into technical details but I have seen ZERO properly designed amps in active speakers, not even in the most expensive ones!

Another untold story is that internal electronics, even placed into well-designed acoustically isolated chamber (to prevent harm due vibrations) have much much lower reliability than external electronics!


So you’re saying the Hypex NCore is complete shit?

You’re absolutely hilarious.

Perhaps tell PKN HQ that they left the ‘amp error’ notice on their 3DS Max render of their latest amp.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 2:31pm
I tend to agree here with Viktor. If only you could peak inside the EAW Anya per instance. And then look at the price.
Most of the powered boxes are made with too much compromise. Some of the best selling mid grade one even use 2 ohm speakers in order to use as small amp as possible.
Not to mention the ordeal you need to go trough when you need to service a module.
Hence why i still resist jumping the powered box wagon. Doing it will save me soo much trouble designing passive crossovers, explaining people why they can not use any random amp and dsp to power our boxes. Why i dont have DSP setting for all the 749 different DSP units in existance, and so on.



-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: JBK
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by efinque efinque wrote:

The problem with active speakers is that you can't place them very far from the source, unless you have a very capable mixer/preamp.
Dead


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by JBK JBK wrote:

Originally posted by efinque efinque wrote:

The problem with active speakers is that you can't place them very far from the source, unless you have a very capable mixer/preamp.
Dead


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP


Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by confused.com confused.com wrote:


I've kept quiet for the 40 plus pages of the "Dance Stack" soap opera, everybody starts somewhere but this latest statement reveals a terrible lack of basic knowledge regarding sound equipment and electronics. By all means continue with your own nonsense nailing components into old furniture but please refrain from making any more of these silly comments and suggestions on anybody else's threads until you have enough knowledge and experience to actually give a useful and qualified opinion.


+1

We got enough pseudoscientist here anyway without him :D



Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

I tend to agree here with Viktor. If only you could peak inside the EAW Anya per instance. And then look at the price.
Most of the powered boxes are made with too much compromise. Some of the best selling mid grade one even use 2 ohm speakers in order to use as small amp as possible.
Not to mention the ordeal you need to go trough when you need to service a module.
Hence why i still resist jumping the powered box wagon. Doing it will save me soo much trouble designing passive crossovers, explaining people why they can not use any random amp and dsp to power our boxes. Why i dont have DSP setting for all the 749 different DSP units in existance, and so on.



Yet these same companies still can’t maintain their profit or growth needed to survive. EAW just got sold, for example, after a really difficult period. So what do they do? Go out in a blaze of glory with zero compromise designs? Or try to find efficiencies based on real world usage for the majority of users?

This is always going to be the conflict of business. We all know the ‘three options, pick two’ idiom.

I agree with you on principle but life is not that simple. And until I see a real H8 working, or real evidence of one beyond the same shill never posting photos, data, measurements or anything of actual value, I’ll continue to think of it as a lovely pipe dream that exists on paper and 3D renders.

One that still needs DSP to be remotely competitive.


Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by efinque efinque wrote:

Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

External amplifiers are so last century.

Active speakers!

The problem with active speakers is that you can't place them very far from the source, unless you have a very capable mixer/preamp.
I didn't think it could get any worse.


Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:


Yet these same companies still can’t maintain their profit or growth needed to survive. EAW just got sold, for example, after a really difficult period. So what do they do? Go out in a blaze of glory with zero compromise designs? Or try to find efficiencies based on real world usage for the majority of users?


Well, considering that BOM cost is less than 10% from retail price anyway, it makes small difference. Bigger issue is the actual R&D, support, marketing, running the company etc. It's funny how everyone likes to get paid and nobody is willing to do charity work for 40 hours per week...


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by Pasi Pasi wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:


Yet these same companies still can’t maintain their profit or growth needed to survive. EAW just got sold, for example, after a really difficult period. So what do they do? Go out in a blaze of glory with zero compromise designs? Or try to find efficiencies based on real world usage for the majority of users?


Well, considering that BOM cost is less than 10% from retail price anyway, it makes small difference. Bigger issue is the actual R&D, support, marketing, running the company etc. It's funny how everyone likes to get paid and nobody is willing to do charity work for 40 hours per week...


So you think U.Viktor gets paid for these posts or is it charity work?

Well yeah, materials cost is only part of the picture. A tiny one, often. But if you can save a fortune on R&D for your high volume boxes by using an off the shelf amp module, DSP, with the support and toolset that comes with, then that aids your bottom line too.

There are of course people out there doing zero compromise work. Many of them go bust, super early, often before getting a product to market.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 04 January 2019 at 11:32pm
No comprimise work relusts in expencive product that then have problem finding buyers. Nowadays the trend is to search for cheaper products, not better onece.
I have few fantastic products in my head. But when i do the math, i doubt many will be willing to pay for them unless some fance name badge is on the boxes. So as Kyle said, we do make compromises or we will close shop very fast.
My comment above was more about how i feel about powered boxes. Nothing to do actually with the PKN amps.


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 05 January 2019 at 10:16am
Sorry for sh*t stirring, just trying to get a rise, and, unfortunately, got one!

In all seriousness, given the love of fixing a box's compromises through judicious use of DSP, the amplifier is less critical. As long as it is sized enough to give headroom enough for whatever DSP "fix" is employed, no worries?

A "good" amp will be able to run full power 10Hz - 30KHz into rated load, 24/7/365, and have massive power supply and spare output devices, and blah blah. But that costs money, either in development, or at point of sale.

It does make some sense to match amp to exact requirements, keeps retail price affordable, if it does compromise longevity a little. A "good" manufacturer will charge a little more, and give a bit more headroom, for reputation of brand if nothing else, and stock spare modules.

Much as my plate amp was a flippant sarcastic remark to annoy, there is some mileage in it. Consider the multi per box on a remote amped MLA box. I forget how many individual amplifiers there is in a full size MLA box, but it is a "couple", so would require quite a number of Socapex to drive each box. Just not practical for the fashion of long Line Arrays being used in todays market place. And then consider losses in copper, over the typical distances between amp racks and hang, and it does start looking a bit shonkey for rack mounted amplifiers.

I admit MLA is the extreme end of Active boxes, a large number of big line arrays are passive, and big multis are run to hangs, but other than accessibility to amps mid gig, I can't actually see much benefit.

Most manufacturers offer some form of TCIP GUI monitoring of amplifiers, plate or rack mounted, so any sort of "Amp Tech" can keep a close eye on proceedings from arm chair, with laptop and cup of tea in each hand.

I just think that distributing power, balanced line and TCIP monitoring (or Dante the audio and control/monitoring over the same bit of Cat5/6) to a hang, or cluster of cabs, is easier than speaker multis?

For subs, on the ground, close to amp racks, it can make more sense to go with big rackmount amps, and short multis, as long as the correct processing is offered by manufacturer, for whatever you choice of processor is. But up in the sky, real hard work IMHO.

If the manufacturer is any good, then their choice of DSP and plate amp settings should be good for the box? If it isn't, no one buys the box!

-------------
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: Sabbelbacke
Date Posted: 12 August 2019 at 5:32pm
Anyone using a H8-18002U ?


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 12 August 2019 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Sabbelbacke Sabbelbacke wrote:

Anyone using a H8-18002U ?




Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12 August 2019 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by Sabbelbacke Sabbelbacke wrote:

Anyone using a H8-18002U ?




LOLLOLLOL


Posted By: AudioSystemsEngineer
Date Posted: 14 February 2022 at 11:42pm
R.I.P. Thread



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