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X1 and HD15 for live sound

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: X1
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the X1 sub
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=101063
Printed Date: 07 December 2022 at 4:47am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: X1 and HD15 for live sound
Posted By: Foca_Dacian
Subject: X1 and HD15 for live sound
Date Posted: 11 January 2018 at 9:28am
Has any of you guys tried mixing live sound on X1's and HD15's ?
How do instruments and vocals sound split between HD15 and mid horns above?



Replies:
Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 11 January 2018 at 4:59pm
totally depends how high you cut the hd15s/how capable your mids are..
i personally dont like the sound of the hd15s if run too high in general as they tend to sound boomy above say 160hz, ideally you`d cut at around 130hz, which also leaves most vocals out of passband.



Posted By: logsquared1
Date Posted: 11 January 2018 at 6:13pm
Can't comment on the X1.  

HD15 sound great for live music.  Lots of people complain about the upper bass from the HD15's sounding boomy, honky, etc.  Two things are absolutely need for the HD15's to sound good.   First proper wadding in the chamber and most important out of band EQ.  The HD's have a huge peak around 160-180.  This has to be taken down even if crossed over at 100.   I cross mine at 150 and they sound fine as long as the above mentioned hump is removed pre-crossover.


Posted By: Risc_Terilia
Date Posted: 05 February 2018 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by logsquared1 logsquared1 wrote:

Can't comment on the X1.  

HD15 sound great for live music.  Lots of people complain about the upper bass from the HD15's sounding boomy, honky, etc.  Two things are absolutely need for the HD15's to sound good.   First proper wadding in the chamber and most important out of band EQ.  The HD's have a huge peak around 160-180.  This has to be taken down even if crossed over at 100.   I cross mine at 150 and they sound fine as long as the above mentioned hump is removed pre-crossover.

I've not heard of this "out of band EQ" technique before - any reading materials you could recommend please?


Posted By: geoSal
Date Posted: 05 February 2018 at 1:49pm
3 hd215 + midtops per side are enough for rock/garage and that kind of fast music (hd's crossed at 48hz).
For heavy sub bass live material x1's are fine but need to have as many as hd's.Also your source material (kick drum/bass) must be capable to reach down there 45hz-85hz or the woofers in the x1's wont move at all.
I've used this combination the previous years (4 hd's + 4 x1's per side) for countless live gigs and it was more than nice.It took some time to come to a pleasant tuning on the system depending on the place but in the end it was worth it.


Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 05 February 2018 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by Risc_Terilia Risc_Terilia wrote:

Originally posted by logsquared1 logsquared1 wrote:

Can't comment on the X1.  

HD15 sound great for live music.  Lots of people complain about the upper bass from the HD15's sounding boomy, honky, etc.  Two things are absolutely need for the HD15's to sound good.   First proper wadding in the chamber and most important out of band EQ.  The HD's have a huge peak around 160-180.  This has to be taken down even if crossed over at 100.   I cross mine at 150 and they sound fine as long as the above mentioned hump is removed pre-crossover.

I've not heard of this "out of band EQ" technique before - any reading materials you could recommend please?

Basically, if there's a peak in the response of a box that's even a bit outside of the frequency range you want it to play in, it can still affect the sound. That's because (most) crossovers aren't brick wall type cutoffs but rather roll off at a more gradual rate.

Using a band of EQ outside of your crossover point to cut such a peak is a trick to help such a box both sound better and make it easier to get a good time/phase alignment through the crossover region.

Here's an example from the design notes for 18Sound's dual 21" manifolded sub to hopefully illustrate what I mean:

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Posted By: Risc_Terilia
Date Posted: 05 February 2018 at 2:56pm
Ok thanks for the info, how would it be better to spend your DSP though, on out of band EQ or on simply having a steeper filter?


Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 05 February 2018 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by Risc_Terilia Risc_Terilia wrote:

Ok thanks for the info, how would it be better to spend your DSP though, on out of band EQ or on simply having a steeper filter?

Steeper filters have more phase shift, so take more care to get the phase/timing right between adjacent passbands, in extreme cases they can even add audible ringing to the sound. A moderate filter like LR24 + an EQ that only affects the problem frequencies can help avoid those complications.



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