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Are these 1850 horns right for this subbass use?

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: 1850 and 186 horns
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the 1850 and 186 horns
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=102868
Printed Date: 09 December 2022 at 6:05am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Are these 1850 horns right for this subbass use?
Posted By: bassego
Subject: Are these 1850 horns right for this subbass use?
Date Posted: 17 November 2018 at 5:48am
I pretend to build a 1850 horn for subbass use.

I've seen that it's frequency response its from 50hz-200hz.

My questions are these:

1. I also heared these horns have a lower frequency response as you stack them... is this true? 

2. I'm planning to build one, for now, because budget. If i build more 1850's i'll be increasing the low frequency response? Because i'll need frequencies as low as ~41hz.

3. Will 4 of these 1850 horns reach ~41 hz?

Thanks in advance!!




Replies:
Posted By: mobiele eenheid
Date Posted: 17 November 2018 at 5:09pm
It's forbidden to use "1850 horn" and "subbass" in the same sentence, unless you specify it's not doing subbass:

'I'm using the X1 for subbass and above that, the 1850 horn up to 150 Hz'

1. Yes, a bit
2. See 1, also build the 186 horn instead
3. Not really



Posted By: bassego
Date Posted: 17 November 2018 at 5:31pm
So the 186 horn has a lower freq response and higher output of subbass frequencies? the plan on the page says it reaches only 51hz


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 17 November 2018 at 6:11pm
The designer said 1850 Horn is a 50hz box.

The 186 Horn, with a modern 10mm Xmax, decent BL driver, like V18-1000, Oberton 18XB1600 should easily reach 45hz in pairs, with RIGHT AMP.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 17 November 2018 at 6:12pm
Wondering why no one has made version of 186 Horn 1200mm tall... Ermm
But then again, I've heard 21" Folded horns that couldn't do 50hz.

Maybe WSX is a better choice, if compression could be lowered.



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 17 November 2018 at 6:30pm
Years and years ago I measured stack of four 1850 horns with V18-1000s in them. I did it outside several meters from closest wall. Mic was something like 2 meters from the stack at maybe knee level. +-3dB was 43-200Hz


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 17 November 2018 at 7:28pm
I think 2006 we did the same got 43hz outside with 4 of them too, also with the V1000 , I think the V1000 is a pretty good driver , now we’v Moved to 21” for subs, playing around with the PND2450 box if Br is H1700mm*W666*D930 or horn 1750*666*640 , 

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Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 17 November 2018 at 8:14pm
I've said it before here..

I've heard 2x stacks of 4x 1850 horns, powered by 2x Crest CA18s, on 3Phase power, and 20M back, I could not perceive anything below, what I deemed 50hz.

Whether measuring would have stated otherwise is pointless, as people go to gigs to hear sound, not look at measurements.

In same venue, I used 6x 1850 Scoops, driven by 2x CA18s, and the 40hz was so over powering, to the point, I was told to turn the sub amps down.

Subjective, non scientific, but point was, people at 2nd gig, told me system, was much better than the 1st.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 18 November 2018 at 1:56pm
I hear nice strong 45Hz out of them easily. 40Hz starts to be lacking. For the stuff we love that 35-45Hz is reaaally important tho :)


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 18 November 2018 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by pfly pfly wrote:

I hear nice strong 45Hz out of them easily. 40Hz starts to be lacking. For the stuff we love that 35-45Hz is reaaally important tho :)

Agreed.

From what I hear SBH does not give natural 45hz prominence, as 186 horn, which is strange from what is supposed to be superior design.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: bassego
Date Posted: 19 November 2018 at 10:37pm
Thanks for all this answers!! Step by step youre throwing light in this darkness of ignorance.

I have an idea that IMO could work, as is something ive seen in a lot of sound system gigs.

So this is my idea:

1. Start by constructing x2 18" super scoops and lowpass them at about... 70hz?? 
(ive read the "Why i dont like scoops" on the page FAQ and basically what's saying is that at this frequency to 90hz and higher has a large dip in frequency response, so i think it will be a nice idea to filter out this frequencies)

2. Then build x2 186 horns and place on top of the scoops, laying down for compensating the frequency cut.

I personally think my idea will work but before making this large investment i would like to hear your opinions to contrast these personal opinions with my beloved acoustic scientists


Posted By: Jo bg
Date Posted: 20 November 2018 at 3:26pm
Is this for reggae or other genres? if allready stated, sorry…
if you are not playing mainly reggae i would look also at hogs, if you like a similar form factor, or consider reflex or tapped horns, should cope better with more genres and play real subbass as you asked; scoops, and also hogs, don't do so much sub, particularly when you have only 2.
if you use scoops or hogs, a lot of people use hd15 or es18 as kicks, smaller than 186 horns and efficent where you need it, while being smaller and easier to carry store and stack.


It would be wiser, even if you don't build it entirely now, to plan your mid tops allready so you can choose the right kick section, or share what you have already. looking at the system as a Whole and setting a clear target could avoid some mistakes and expenses .


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 20 November 2018 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by bassego bassego wrote:

Start by constructing x2 18" super scoops and lowpass them at about... 70hz?? Then build x2 186 horns and place on top of the scoops, laying down for compensating the frequency cut.


As mentioned previously, Absolutely not !!!!

If Reggae/DnB is not your main music material played, and you want sub section for general purpose use, stack of 4x 186 Horns, with Void V18-1000, PD1850, and with 4x ES18 Kick bins will meet your sub and kick section needs.

If decent sub reproduction is also needed for Reggae/DnB, SuperScooper 18s loaded with Void V18-1000, and ES18 kick bins, will do a decent job, especially on bass heavy material.

ES18s with strong 9mm Xmax driver, will really excel, 70-160hz, depending on driver.



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Vaso_Bobinata
Date Posted: 29 October 2022 at 9:12pm
Hi mate i was wondering what to do with 8 PD1850/1 drivers. (left from a club upgrade)
1850 horn  nothing below 50Hz
X1 nothing over 100Hz (X1 very fast and easy to buld)

not very all purpose designs :)
 
WTF
Any susgestions?
Kind regards,
V



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