Amp to run 4 x 18TLW3000 8/4 Ohms!!!
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Category: General
Forum Name: Amp Forum
Forum Description: The 'Stopping Jake Fielder moaning constantly' forum description...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=103000
Printed Date: 24 April 2024 at 9:17am
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Topic: Amp to run 4 x 18TLW3000 8/4 Ohms!!!
Posted By: tehnicar007
Subject: Amp to run 4 x 18TLW3000 8/4 Ohms!!!
Date Posted: 16 December 2018 at 11:11am
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Hi guys ! What Amp you recommend to run 4 x 18TLW3000 8/4 Ohms!!! Ciaaao
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Replies:
Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 16 December 2018 at 1:01pm
Two crest pro 10001 
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Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 16 December 2018 at 2:27pm
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PKN XE10000 (2 * 5000W+ @4R) is a very cost effective solution to drive two of 8R/2500W speakers per side. If you want even more headroom H8-18002U (2* 10000W @2R) would be the best ever but that is expensive and not so common yet.
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Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 16 December 2018 at 6:21pm
And a forklift!  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
bob4 wrote:Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 16 December 2018 at 9:49pm
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deffo 10001 would be my choice too no worries bout weight aslong them on castors , all good :-) ------------- Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE... |
Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 16 December 2018 at 9:50pm
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And ovisly no stairs lol ------------- Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE... |
Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 10:46am
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i find it odd people moan about amp weight when wanting to run 4 or 8 cabs that weight 100kg each ?? obvz I expect it on big touring applications where they need minimum rack space and maximum output but not on smaller things ------------- TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 11:50am
 The general misconception is that everybody thinks that the amp will drive a resistive load (all amps parameters stated by resisitive load) however the speakers are reactive. It means that the output current are usually OUT of phase with the coil driving Voltage! Why it so important? Most(if not ALL) analog amplifiers have a type of output stage which NOT allows to sink or source large current when the output devices see large momentary Voltage drop, especially when the output Voltage nears Zero but the load current still large.. Big big surprise than pretty large analog amplifier could be forced entering to output power dissipation protection of its power devices to prevent momentary overheating of junction layers if the current shift is unfortunate angle.. Here comes the advantage of modern switching amplifiers: with proper construction a good switching amp can deliver its max. output current at ANY output Voltage :-) So while a large analog amp loosing control movement of Volice coils due activated momentary output dissipation (UxI) protection, maybe even a smaller switching amp could work better.
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Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 11:59am
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...surely that's a topology problem... not a PSU problem. ------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down. |
Posted By: wilidapili
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 1:58pm
| I’m also interested in how powerful of an amp is recommended for 2x TLW3000 |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 2:40pm
No. Class AB amp shave almost the worst conversion efficiency ~ 50-60% maximum. Also plagued by the problem I have mentioned above^. Class-D ( high frequency switching ) amps could have efficiency above 85% while very few reaches ~ 95% or more. Linear (50/60HZ transformer) and poor switching power supplies without PFC are equally bad due their mains current distortion originated from 'peak rectification', which end sometimes as bad as they consumes 5X or 10X of the output power. For example a 1000W SMPS(without PFC) or toroidal transformer would needs 4.3A average (6.2A peak) from the mains if the power factor would be correct (1.0) but unfortunately - due peak rectification - usually pulls out 50 or 100A peaks with very narrow conducting angle which is bad for the mains, generators and could create dangerous over Voltage spikes on the opposite phases. Learn and understand why good power factor are so important.
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Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 3:05pm
What do you mean with this?
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Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 6:00pm
Waiting for the edit 😉 ------------- Freedom of choice, choice of freedom. |
Posted By: Jo bg
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 6:52pm
I GOT IT ! Efinque is somehow writing from the 80s! |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 8:01pm
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It is not about the weight, it is all about the sound. Normally a good and efficient modern technology switching amplifier can be realized in just a fraction of size and weight of a linear amp. Those Crown XLS is a joke, just like some 99% of the switching amps. There are just very few really good products on the market and tons of scrap. I can count them on a single hand of mine!
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Posted By: wilidapili
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 8:32pm
I’m curious to know these ones you can count with a single hand!
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Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 9:06pm
I think you need some more test gear. ------------- Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 9:26pm
Yes - agree that the Crown are bad - but even some fairly expensive Class D have their issues, eg: https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=Funktion-One_F60Q_-_FFA6004" rel="nofollow - https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=Funktion-One_F60Q_-_FFA6004 Give me a decent Class H any day! ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 17 December 2018 at 9:41pm
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i have FFA 6004 since 2011 and been very happy with its sound quality and reliability, 8 years, no issues with the amp, no burned speakers... ------------- http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 1:05pm
Powersoft K20 When you start to focus on drivers that require 3600 watts program power, you are placing yourself with very limited options in terms of amplifiers. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 1:16pm
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Don't forget FFA10000 ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 1:26pm
I always liked the sound of FFA. I would imagine the lack of popularity on Speakerplans is due to not having an on-board DSP. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 1:52pm
i like them too , I'l be heading over to visit Dave after the holidays , i got three powersoft racks now i need an FFA rack , Dsp or no dsp  sometimes we should just think of the sound we provide ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 2:07pm
As there are thousands of inukes and old toroid amps being driven to with an inch of their lives every weekend why are we not seeing the problems you harp on about in every thread? Seriously if the world is going to end when using one then why has it not ended?
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Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 3:13pm
Never expected both ends of the spectrum when I made that comment ..you want to solve this problem then I suggest redesigning the power transistor! Efinque. You many want to look that up again AB are awful when it comes to eff% Vicktor. Stop scare mongering... distortion on the current entering the PSU being a problem? I suggest building your own power station. And current being out of phase on ANY type of AC circuit it just one of those thing inherent in the system. It won't trigger an apocalypse. Less caffeine mate and try to get out in the sun a bit more. I love SP. You guys remind me I could be a lot (mentally) worse off... ------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down. |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 3:28pm
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I love SP. You guys remind me I could be a lot (mentally) worse off... lol , Mini-Mad you are just alittle mad ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 3:59pm
Agreed... but my wife does her best to keep me inline. I'm not sure I'm cut out for the 21st century. To much nonsense everywhere forced on you on a daily basis. So.......... back on topic. ...sorry ------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down. |
Posted By: Battered
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 4:03pm
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mini-mad kind of reminds me of the midget fortune teller that escaped from prison............ Small medium at large!! Yeah, I don’t know what that means either, but it has been a **** of a few weeks and my brain is fried. And now I’m going to sleep to forget all about working with w***ers!! ------------- Touching cloth at 200 mph |
Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 4:25pm
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I love SP. You guys remind me I could be a lot (mentally) worse off.. I know that feeling, if I get to the point of feeling a bit mental I spend half an hour on Facebook then realise life could be a lot worse.
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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 5:00pm
Dave has world class DSP in his amps for a few years now I'm all about headroom but if you get a huge amp, even on a driver with this high AES rating, and you don't limit it and filter it properly then be prepared to smoke some coils. For that reason, if you don't have a SERIOUS DSP and know how to use it, you'd be better off with K10, or K20 with DSP, or a Linea 44M20, or XTA APA4E8 plus paying someone to actually measure your driver in cabinet to calculate the long term RMS rating in volts and the heating threshold of the coil. |
Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 5:54pm
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ppl being running crowns, crest hh , c-audio ect ect for donkeys years flat out , even me on 8/12 hours sessions no problem tha keep chuggling along nicely lol, yes do understand not as powerfull for nowadays drivers , but still comments concept lol cracking up ------------- Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE... |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 6:06pm
we got XTA's in the racks bro , not all powersoft amps have dsp , will be sending them for upgrading , got a good price for that . ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 6:20pm
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[QUOTE=Dub Specialist Sound]ppl being running crowns, crest hh , c-audio ect ect for donkeys years flat out , even me on 8/12 hours sessions no problem tha keep chuggling along nicely lol, yes do understand not as powerfull for nowadays drivers , but still comments concept lol cracking up[/QUOTE Welcome dude
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Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 18 December 2018 at 6:29pm
From the pre-dsp days, many of us would train our ears to detect any issues taking place throughout the event. Although, Aphex Dominator was common in those times, many still gauged the levels based on common sense. I would imagine this is why I over power all my speakers.
One of the biggest issues I’ve seen are those trying to cover a venue that requires 8 – 16 bins and expect to get the same output as 8 – 16 bins using 4 boxes. No amount DSP protection is going to prevent loudspeaker failure if the user is reckless.
Sophisticated DSP protection is very helpful however, should never be looked upon as “My DSP is protecting everything so I can raise the fader higher.” Continuous average levels that offer a minimum Average to Peak Ratio can damage a loudspeaker with an unclipped signal just as fast as and amplifier being clipped to the point the clip light remains on like a light bulb.
If someone is investing in four Eighteen Sound 18 TLW 3000 speakers, they are supposed to be familiar with every means of precautionary methods to prevent any loss in their investment.
Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: wilidapili
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 5:42pm
| We are now running 4x 18TLW3000 drivers on a Powersoft X4. One bridged channel for one double 18" cabinet. When we build two more subs, we will be running 8x 18TLW3000 on the X4, this time unbridged channels. Not optimal regarding headroom, though. We have our eyes on the X4L in the distant future, but we'll build some more cabs first. Maybe we should look into some other type of cabinets for efficiency, let's see. |