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Saturn 16 - 4 x 4200W - Discussion

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Topic: Saturn 16 - 4 x 4200W - Discussion
Posted By: levyte357-
Subject: Saturn 16 - 4 x 4200W - Discussion
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 5:46pm
Believe these are on sale from member Timebomb here.

These definitely deserve a thread.

@Timebomb, are these dual PSU?

What's max current draw @ 8 ohm per channel?


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.



Replies:
Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 6:02pm
Single power supply driving all 4 channels, supply is rated at 7KW continous, current draw depends on the actual load and the crest factor of the signal, they will not do full power sinewave with all channels driven, the current limiter kicks in.  Max draw is around 32A though.  They will run a 132V RMS sine wave for several seconds on a single channel on a 4 ohm resistive load.  With 2 channels the current limiter kicks in slightly earlier but they nearly manage it.

In real world use RE will rise with that kind of power and there is crest factor in the signal, it is quite different to driving a resistive load,  i will have more detailed tests done in the next few weeks.     


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Old king coles
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 6:23pm
interested pending test results Thumbs Up


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 7:41pm
@timebomb are these capable of any output into 2ohm on one channel or do they go straight into protect?

Phil


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Single power supply driving all 4 channels, supply is rated at 7KW continous, current draw depends on the actual load and the crest factor of the signal, they will not do full power sinewave with all channels driven, the current limiter kicks in. 

Honesty is best policy.. Clap

Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Max draw is around 32A though.






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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 8:17pm
32A consumption with a 7KW continuous PSU would seem reasonable.

Out of interest, are the output stages happy driving constant voltage distributed lines? ( "100v line" ) an RMS output of 130 odd volts would be ideal for that kind of use.

Do you have a DSP equipped version on the way?


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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 9:32pm
The Saturn 10s are rated for 2 ohm use,  the Saturn 16s are stated as 4 ohms minimum as the very high power levels would be too much for the output modules (around 7KW).  They are stable at lower power levels however, and should be fine if the VPL is set lower, but i think it is best to advise 4 ohms minimum for the Saturn 16s. 

I have not tested them into high impedance loads so i will have to get back to you on that Chris,  there is a DSP version coming in the next few months with a new module from Germany.


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

the Saturn 16s are stated as 4 ohms minimum as the very high power levels would be too much for the output modules (Saturn 16s. 

@Timebomb,  can the amplifier be supplied with 32A Powercon in?
Also how many output devices are there per channel?




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 11:05pm
Alldsp?


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 15 January 2019 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

The Saturn 10s are rated for 2 ohm use,  the Saturn 16s are stated as 4 ohms minimum as the very high power levels would be too much for the output modules (around 7KW).  They are stable at lower power levels however, and should be fine if the VPL is set lower, but i think it is best to advise 4 ohms minimum for the Saturn 16s.


dial the VPL back to 93V and it should in theory be okay into 2R. let us know if you can test this. or happy to field test for you Big smile


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 9:57am
I will do some more testing at 2 ohms,  but imo its best not to run any amp below 4 ohms, its not really ideal, it can be done to get you out of a jam but i would not recomend designing systems to run like that.

The DSP module is not from AllDSP it is from another company in Germany, i will give more details when everything is finalised, i only have the old version of the software at the moment.  

The amplifiers have a captive power cable so the 13A plug can easily be replaced with a Ceeform or Powercon, and i would recommend it for high power use.  




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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 1:44pm
what is the CSA of the power cable ? - presumably if it comes fitted with a 13A plug it is no larger than 1.5mm. Obviously this is going to be an issue with a 7KW continuous rated PSU!

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

what is the CSA of the power cable ? - presumably if it comes fitted with a 13A plug it is no larger than 1.5mm. Obviously this is going to be an issue with a 7KW continuous rated PSU!

Yep, even 2.5mm2 is better.

Which is why I asked about Powercon 32A inlet on back, instead of captive lead.



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: JonB67
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 1:58pm
Didnt think you could put 2.5mm in a standard 13a plug so guess the cable is 1.5mm.

Seems a bit of an oversight if the amp can pull 32a if driven hard.


Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 2:03pm
There are a lot of power amps fitted with captive leads that are heavier than 1.5mm


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

There are a lot of power amps fitted with captive leads that are heavier than 1.5mm

Sure Void INF8MK1 Had captive 4mm2 lead.

Proline is 2.5mm2 captive.

I hate putting 32A ceeforms on leads less than 4mm2, even with bootlace ferrule.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 3:24pm
Cable is 2.5mm2 30A.  They come with moulded on 13A plugs but i had no problem putting a replacement 13A on after it have been swapped over to a ceeform temporally, its not that hard with 2.5mm2. 

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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 3:33pm
Yes, there are plugs that will accept 2.5mm cable, but you do fall foul of BS1363 ( which stipulates a conductor size no larger than 1.5mm) if you care about such things. I'm not sure how BS1363 effects moulded connectors however - hopefully someone else can chime in here, but certainly once cut off the amplifier can only be used with a CEEform connector under the letter of the regulations. Nothing stopping you using a 16-13A jumper however ( made with 1.5mm of course!)

2.5mm 3 core PVC flex is good for 24A ( providing it is actually copper, not copper coated aluminium)


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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 9:19pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMNNbqUeJo" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMNNbqUeJo

..Have tested that Amp on bass duty at this gig, running 8x 18nlw9601s (+12x Orbit3s, 12 Void Arc6s) -  it does pretty well on Sub.. ;)
32A Plug - my bad, sorry James haha, cheers for the demo unit though!

edit: 2000++ happy punters, about  20x40m floor, pretty well covered, windows at the back of the building, behind the stage, were vibrating violently (had a second gig that day at a venue across the street.. ;) ) to be honest i doubt our K20s would have done much better running those 8 Subs..



Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 10 February 2019 at 8:40pm
Is this the internals of the Soundgear Staurn 16?


Would like to know Output Device Count per channel, and make/model.




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 10 February 2019 at 8:44pm
Oh dear oh dear


Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 10 February 2019 at 11:16pm
theres space for a nice big torroid.


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Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 11 February 2019 at 12:02am
It looks like the smaller one. 4x2500 at 4 ohm.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: ReubGold
Date Posted: 11 February 2019 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

It looks like the smaller one. 4x2500 at 4 ohm.


http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/Saturn%2010.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/Saturn 10.jpg



http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/Saturn16jpg.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/Saturn16jpg.jpg




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If he turns me into a zombie, first person I'm coming after is you.


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 11 February 2019 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMNNbqUeJo" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMNNbqUeJo

..Have tested that Amp on bass duty at this gig, running 8x 18nlw9601s (+12x Orbit3s, 12 Void Arc6s) -  it does pretty well on Sub.. ;)
32A Plug - my bad, sorry James haha, cheers for the demo unit though!

edit: 2000++ happy punters, about  20x40m floor, pretty well covered, windows at the back of the building, behind the stage, were vibrating violently (had a second gig that day at a venue across the street.. ;) ) to be honest i doubt our K20s would have done much better running those 8 Subs..


That’s the sort of posts we want :)

Real world experience and honest unbiased opionion.


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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 11 February 2019 at 4:13pm
Are they made here,or imported from China?


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 11 February 2019 at 8:57pm
The amps are manufactured in China, the speaker cabinets are built in the UK.  



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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: 4AC
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 9:29am
Originally posted by ReubGold ReubGold wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

It looks like the smaller one. 4x2500 at 4 ohm.

http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/Saturn16jpg.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/Saturn16jpg.jpg



If this tiny package of electronics is able to run 8x 18nlw9601s, in other words, amplify bass for ~2000 people... then I am impressed.
I know amplifier technology has certainly advanced over the last couple of decades, but, wow.


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uǝɿɿɐʌǝ6ɯo sı ʇsʞǝʇ ǝzǝp


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 10:04am
We have an interesting conundrum, where internals of the amp  seem to disagree with use of the amp.

I just need to know details/specifications of output devices, and voltage/current ratings of PSU components.


I don't subscribe to writing off amps, just because they are Chinese, because the Chinese will build to your spec, IF you monitor them, and enforce QA.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

We have an interesting conundrum, where internals of the amp  seem to disagree with use of the amp.

I just need to know details/specifications of output devices, and voltage/current ratings of PSU components.


I don't subscribe to writing off amps, just because they are Chinese, because the Chinese will build to your spec, IF you monitor them, and enforce QA.



James is hardly far away or unfriendly, why don’t you just source a demo unit and try for yourself?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 3:14pm
will he be allowed open it up and poke around? normally have to buy something before you can do that..


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:



James is hardly far away or unfriendly, why don’t you just source a demo unit and try for yourself?


Before I even do that, would want to know about components and their ratings.

That would tell me about long term reliability, and likelihood of amp overheating, during normal operation, if not enough output devices, or insufficient current drawing/handling capacity of PSU.

Demoing unit, would tell me how amp sounds, and how well it powers drivers.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: logsquared1
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 6:10pm
The number of output transistors is not really relevant to switching amps like it is for AB.  Also, to really know how a SMPS performs you need to test it or look at the schematic.  A rough idea can be had from the size of the transformer, however you also need to know the switching freq.


Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 9:06pm
Design, as much as the components used is fundamental to
Reliable operation. Only a real world test would show suitability.


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Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.


Posted By: ArthurG
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 4:25am
The 2 previous messages are very important.
One simple example. At same 100kHz switching frequency, a typical EE65 transformer used in many SMPS designs nowadays can deliver 1.5kw in Flyback mode but 3kW in resonant mode. That's not trivial... Then the DC-DC converter stage has also huge influence on the output capacity: switching at 70kHz with low efficiency MOSFETs / IGBTs and you get around 2kW in resonant mode but up to 5kW at 150kHz and X2 class MOSFETs.

All of this to say that you can't judge these Saturn amps only by looking at them. The circuit design and the components used are in fact more important than only number of output transistors or how big are the PCB...



Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 5:48am
Good to have you back Arthur!


Posted By: ReubGold
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 11:39am
Surely the damping and cone control, is still dependent on number of output devices per channel?




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If he turns me into a zombie, first person I'm coming after is you.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 5:20pm
Looks interesting, my current Itech 8000 failed at the moment, so I'm looking at different options.
Music typically is low duty cycle and most demanding music would be hardstyle (for my purposes ofcourse).


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by ReubGold ReubGold wrote:

Surely the damping and cone control, is still dependent on number of output devices per channel?




http://linea-research.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/LR%20Download%20Assets/Tech%20Docs/Damping%20factor%20debunked%20-01a.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://linea-research.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/LR%20Download%20Assets/Tech%20Docs/Damping%20factor%20debunked%20-01a.pdf
https://www.audiofrog.com/community/tech-tips/damping-factor-and-why-it-isnt-much-of-a-factor-2/" rel="nofollow - https://www.audiofrog.com/community/tech-tips/damping-factor-and-why-it-isnt-much-of-a-factor-2/
http://handkusers.forumotion.com/t121-damping-factor-myth-corrected" rel="nofollow - http://handkusers.forumotion.com/t121-damping-factor-myth-corrected


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by ReubGold ReubGold wrote:

Surely the damping and cone control, is still dependent on number of output devices per channel?




http://linea-research.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/LR%20Download%20Assets/Tech%20Docs/Damping%20factor%20debunked%20-01a.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://linea-research.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/LR%20Download%20Assets/Tech%20Docs/Damping%20factor%20debunked%20-01a.pdf
https://www.audiofrog.com/community/tech-tips/damping-factor-and-why-it-isnt-much-of-a-factor-2/" rel="nofollow - https://www.audiofrog.com/community/tech-tips/damping-factor-and-why-it-isnt-much-of-a-factor-2/
http://handkusers.forumotion.com/t121-damping-factor-myth-corrected" rel="nofollow - http://handkusers.forumotion.com/t121-damping-factor-myth-corrected


https://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/support/faq-s/113-rack-amps-faqs/633-what-is-damping-factor" rel="nofollow - https://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/support/faq-s/113-rack-amps-faqs/633-what-is-damping-factor

 Damping Factor is very important on the range of frequency between 10Hz to 400Hz. The Active Damping Control acts lowering the amplifier’s output impedance, compensating the added resistance of the cable.



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 9:12pm
Did you even read any of the links I posted?


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 9:21pm
I have the same discussion with someone who even says damping factor is most important piece of information you need to know for wich amp is best.. Ermm


Posted By: fatfreddiescat
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 10:05pm
Just don't mention valves.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

I have the same discussion with someone who even says damping factor is most important piece of information you need to know for wich amp is best.. Ermm


It is important. As the whole system. The amplifier is going to have such a high value that it’s irrelevant in practice compared to the driver and cabling. That is the entire reason the Powersoft tool exists, which Lev would know, if he bothered to read and understand the links.


Posted By: ArthurG
Date Posted: 15 February 2019 at 12:01am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

https://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/support/faq-s/113-rack-amps-faqs/633-what-is-damping-factor" rel="nofollow - https://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/support/faq-s/113-rack-amps-faqs/633-what-is-damping-factor

 Damping Factor is very important on the range of frequency between 10Hz to 400Hz. The Active Damping Control acts lowering the amplifier’s output impedance, compensating the added resistance of the cable.

Coming soon in next generation of Powersoft amplifiers:
Distortion is very important on the range of frequency between 1000Hz to 10000Hz. The Active Distortion Control acts lowering the amplifier’s switching irregularities, compensating the bad behavior of the DJ playing into the red.

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

More seriously, if damping factor is so important, why don't set it always at the highest value ? Stern Smile



Posted By: Meat
Date Posted: 15 February 2019 at 8:09am
Would critical damping not be the preferred situation for everything to be as good as possible in the time domain?


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Don't test the champignon sound


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 15 February 2019 at 9:06am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

I have the same discussion with someone who even says damping factor is most important piece of information you need to know for wich amp is best.. Ermm


It is important. As the whole system. The amplifier is going to have such a high value that it’s irrelevant in practice compared to the driver and cabling. That is the entire reason the Powersoft tool exists, which Lev would know, if he bothered to read and understand the links.

That was my point in the argument. The resistance of the cable + connectorst etc. Is (in most cases) far more significant in the calculation.


Posted By: ReubGold
Date Posted: 15 February 2019 at 2:39pm
When we had big iron amps, with manly enough PSU section (or maybe 2x), that provide the current to drive well endowed banks of output devices per channel, it was accepted, High Damping was key to control and good sound.

Now when we have SMPS amps, lacking the minerals to provide decent current to large banks of output devices per channel, now high damping is not necessarily needed, and neither are decent number of output devices per channel.




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If he turns me into a zombie, first person I'm coming after is you.


Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 18 February 2019 at 12:12am
Did someone mention valve's?
Terrible damping factor, old technology.... Stay away!!🤓


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Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.


Posted By: suiluj
Date Posted: 22 February 2019 at 2:23am
Originally posted by 4AC 4AC wrote:

Originally posted by ReubGold ReubGold wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

It looks like the smaller one. 4x2500 at 4 ohm.

http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/Saturn16jpg.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/Saturn16jpg.jpg



If this tiny package of electronics is able to run 8x 18nlw9601s, in other words, amplify bass for ~2000 people... then I am impressed.
I know amplifier technology has certainly advanced over the last couple of decades, but, wow.

Are these two related? Smile Seems below is his bigger brother. 









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BooM BASSTIK EleCtronics and Communications Engineer
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 22 February 2019 at 11:08am
Which amp is this?


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 22 February 2019 at 11:38am
Those pictures are of the old version of the power supply, the new one is more stable and more efficient, the supply's in the first Saturn 10s were the same as those in the picture, before the update.    

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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 6:16am
Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMNNbqUeJo" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMNNbqUeJo

..Have tested that Amp on bass duty at this gig, running 8x 18nlw9601s (+12x Orbit3s, 12 Void Arc6s) -  it does pretty well on Sub.. ;)
32A Plug - my bad, sorry James haha, cheers for the demo unit though!

edit: 2000++ happy punters, about  20x40m floor, pretty well covered, windows at the back of the building, behind the stage, were vibrating violently (had a second gig that day at a venue across the street.. ;) ) to be honest i doubt our K20s would have done much better running those 8 Subs..


That’s the sort of posts we want :)

Real world experience and honest unbiased opionion.


real world experience tells me they are up for "the" job.. ;)
(not sure if i would run them without backup options for high spec jobs though.. some doubts are left using one amp on sub, specially a rel. cheap chinese one.. glad they did work out well on this job though..) :)


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 7:32am
I asked on 15th Jan, how many output devices per channel, no response yet.

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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 10:38am
I recently repaired a 4kW (100% duty cycle) class D monoblock that will run into 1R loads.  Guess how many output devices it had on each side of the half bridge? One!  That question has no meaning without knowing the output devices and amplifier topology.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 10:50am
Topology already stated by seller.

Original question also requested power dissipation and manufacturer, but have lost interest now.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Topology already stated by seller.

Original question also requested power dissipation and manufacturer, but have lost interest now.

Why would the seller disclose all that info to you? Can you get an answer to those questions from Labruppen or Powersoft? 


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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Topology already stated by seller.

Original question also requested power dissipation and manufacturer, but have lost interest now.

Why would the seller disclose all that info to you? Can you get an answer to those questions from Labruppen or Powersoft? 


But this is not branded, is it?

Not saying this is a Lab Copy/Clone, but ALL Chinese amp distributors I've spoken to, freely give  hi res pics of output boards/PSU boards on request, if not on website. Many provide schematics with part no's on request.

They know you are not going to copy amp, and will probably pass it onto your service engineer.

Deton, Sanyway, Hypro Audio, XBS, will all do this.

So nothing out of the ordinary requested here.




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 6:29pm
They probably give you all of that information because they think you'll place a big order

As apposed to asking alot of questions, making alot of statements and generally not buying anything


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 6:38pm
Yes, you should buy an amp, based on what you are told, knowing nothing about components utilised inside it..

I remember Rog not only putting up internal hi res pics of Inf8MK2, but also pics of it on test bench, under going 50hz sine wave bench test, and measurements.

How dare he be so helpful, without being asked..


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 24 February 2019 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Topology already stated by seller.

Original question also requested power dissipation and manufacturer, but have lost interest now.

Why would the seller disclose all that info to you? Can you get an answer to those questions from Labruppen or Powersoft? 
Marian, your statement totally misses the point, Lab and Powersoft don't need to give these specs, they are trusted brands with massive history so are trusted not only for their quality of build and components used but also their customer after care and back up, these Chinese amps being sold in the UK have none of the above proven history so are an unknown quantity, I would certainly want to know more than just some stated specs, this is in no way ment to be detrimental to Time bomb he is doing excellent work but more info on components used would be a good start at getting some confidence in this product.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 25 February 2019 at 12:04am
Sorry but this always sounds to me like the million questions i get all the time and they are pretty much the same. Which driver you use in that box? And which 12 inch driver? 
Jesus, are you buying a loudspeaker box or components? 
These amps might not be a Powersoft, but they also cost a fraction of the Powersoft cost.
For that cost, they are what they are.


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: suiluj
Date Posted: 25 February 2019 at 9:09am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Which amp is this?

Taken almost 5 years ago wayback 2014. Older PSU same as Lab G power supply. 
Timebomb said that the PSU has been updated. 
I am not sure if the amplifier module is also updated. 
The old version has a total of 8 devices per channel. See pic below. 



2 channels stick together






-------------
BooM BASSTIK EleCtronics and Communications Engineer
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 25 February 2019 at 9:48am
Originally posted by suiluj suiluj wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Which amp is this?

Taken almost 5 years ago wayback 2014. Older PSU same as Lab G power supply. 
Timebomb said that the PSU has been updated. 
I am not sure if the amplifier module is also updated. 
The old version has a total of 8 devices per channel. See pic below.


Thanks.

What make/model where the devices?


-------------
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 25 February 2019 at 9:52am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

For that cost, they are what they are.


And what exactly is that?

If you have no idea what the O/P Devices are, and how many there are per channel?

Or are you just suggesting buy it, and if it blows up in use, or doesn't provide what's needed, just sell it on for a loss ?

Some buyers, are a little more discerning.

As I said, Many Chinese distributors have no problem at all providing tech specs to those who ask, before a penny is spent.


-------------
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 25 February 2019 at 9:55am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Sorry but this always sounds to me like the million questions i get all the time and they are pretty much the same. Which driver you use in that box? And which 12 inch driver? 
Jesus, are you buying a loudspeaker box or components? 
These amps might not be a Powersoft, but they also cost a fraction of the Powersoft cost.
For that cost, they are what they are.

I feel you Marjan,  i have the same issue, some people seem to think all manufactures do is throw a load of components in boxs, rather than carefully test and evaluate components too find what is optimal in a given application.  People tend to have lot of bias towards one component manufacturer over another, often because they have liked a product that had that manufacturers components in,  so therefor wrongly assume that said manufacturers components are better for everything in all designs and applications, it is simply not the case.  I have customers tell me i should use x/y/z brand of drivers over what i have tested and concluded to me optimum, just because they think that brand X is "better",  it is much more about individual components and applications than brands... but people often dont get it...

Regarding manufacturers of Lab G copys/clones in China giving out component lists and schematics, yes there are many that will do this as there are 100s of factory's making these clones and the circuits are all 90-95% the same anyway, they have no real intellectual property to protect, It is different when the amplifiers you are referring to are not copys/clones, as those 100s of factorys are waiting to copy the next thing, but as it was asked the Saturn 16 output stages use 4 x IRFP4768 MOSFETs, all components are from reputable manufacturers and are well suited to there applications.

My issue with this is that it is a public forum where people will often make spurious comments about the suitability of components, design choices, performance claims etc without really understanding what they are talking about, and having no direct experience of the component / design / application involved, so consequently they are spreading miss information, weather it be deliberate or accidental, and this does directly impact on manufacturers reputation and sales, which is a shame.  There will always be a grey area between opinion and fact, i will publish more measurements of the Saturn series soon so hopefully that will make things clearer for people :)

Cheers.

James        




-------------
James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 25 February 2019 at 9:58am
Those modules pictured are an older version of a lower powered model, the Saturn 16 modules are a similar layout.  The 4200W module is much more recent and did not exist 5 years ago.   

-------------
James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: suiluj
Date Posted: 25 February 2019 at 10:51am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by suiluj suiluj wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Which amp is this?

Taken almost 5 years ago wayback 2014. Older PSU same as Lab G power supply. 
Timebomb said that the PSU has been updated. 
I am not sure if the amplifier module is also updated. 
The old version has a total of 8 devices per channel. See pic below.


Thanks.

What make/model where the devices?




-------------
BooM BASSTIK EleCtronics and Communications Engineer
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 25 February 2019 at 10:57am
Considering many of the self proclaimed experts here don’t appear to understand or bother to look at the impedance curve of their boxes at low and high current use, nor respect the relationship that voltage, current and impedance has, I think it’s a given that the vast majority of comments on limiters, amps, power, and even frequency response of a given box are taken with a large pinch of salt unless they’re accompanied by verifiable measurements.


Posted By: redngold77
Date Posted: 18 March 2019 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Sorry but this always sounds to me like the million questions i get all the time and they are pretty much the same. Which driver you use in that box? And which 12 inch driver? 
Jesus, are you buying a loudspeaker box or components? 
These amps might not be a Powersoft, but they also cost a fraction of the Powersoft cost.
For that cost, they are what they are.

I feel you Marjan,  i have the same issue, some people seem to think all manufactures do is throw a load of components in boxs, rather than carefully test and evaluate components too find what is optimal in a given application.  People tend to have lot of bias towards one component manufacturer over another, often because they have liked a product that had that manufacturers components in,  so therefor wrongly assume that said manufacturers components are better for everything in all designs and applications, it is simply not the case.  I have customers tell me i should use x/y/z brand of drivers over what i have tested and concluded to me optimum, just because they think that brand X is "better",  it is much more about individual components and applications than brands... but people often dont get it...

Regarding manufacturers of Lab G copys/clones in China giving out component lists and schematics, yes there are many that will do this as there are 100s of factory's making these clones and the circuits are all 90-95% the same anyway, they have no real intellectual property to protect, It is different when the amplifiers you are referring to are not copys/clones, as those 100s of factorys are waiting to copy the next thing, but as it was asked the Saturn 16 output stages use 4 x IRFP4768 MOSFETs, all components are from reputable manufacturers and are well suited to there applications.

My issue with this is that it is a public forum where people will often make spurious comments about the suitability of components, design choices, performance claims etc without really understanding what they are talking about, and having no direct experience of the component / design / application involved, so consequently they are spreading miss information, weather it be deliberate or accidental, and this does directly impact on manufacturers reputation and sales, which is a shame.  There will always be a grey area between opinion and fact, i will publish more measurements of the Saturn series soon so hopefully that will make things clearer for people :)

Cheers.

James        



Looking forward to seeing some measurements :)

Did you do any long-term testing of the amps before taking them on? If so, can you give us any details? power output/duration/impedance


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 18 March 2019 at 10:21pm
Will update with new measurements hopefully in the next couple of weeks :)

-------------
James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Chris Grimshaw
Date Posted: 23 March 2019 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Will update with new measurements hopefully in the next couple of weeks :)


Watching with interest. I mostly do live bands where they'll want 4-8 monitor mixes. Couple of these would be great, and the DSP would be the icing on the cake.
Interested to see about the DSP capabilities, too. A little more grunt for the subs would be nice.

Chris


-------------
Quality sound from Sheffield
www.grimshawaudio.com


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 23 March 2019 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Chris Grimshaw Chris Grimshaw wrote:

Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Will update with new measurements hopefully in the next couple of weeks :)


Watching with interest. I mostly do live bands where they'll want 4-8 monitor mixes. Couple of these would be great, and the DSP would be the icing on the cake.
Interested to see about the DSP capabilities, too. A little more grunt for the subs would be nice.

Chris

They fit perfectly for monitor duty.


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Sound Chippy
Date Posted: 28 March 2019 at 6:10pm
Thanks for taking the time to respond with your concise and for good reason cautious answers, James. I look forward to your following update. much respect from down south.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 02 July 2019 at 3:23pm
I'm looking for something to replace my current Itech 8000 (which is still in repair Unhappy).
These look interesting, but how is the reliability until now?

I know you can't expect powersoft k series quality, but using these with 2 channels sub, 2 channels mid/high they probably can produce some noise.


Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 28 February 2020 at 6:52pm
So,any update on measurements,its been long time

-------------
http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 07 March 2020 at 2:56pm
Is there any feedback regarding reliability?

For a new project I am looking for a 4 channel amp, used power soft x4 is also on the list, but is much more expensive then a saturn 16 with nice a DSP. 


Posted By: swind0wn
Date Posted: 14 June 2020 at 12:22pm
Any updates?


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 14 June 2020 at 1:09pm
Sorry,  the Saturn series is all sold out apart from a few 16s,  i plan to do another batch but freight is currently about 3x what i normally pay so im holding off for now,  i do have some of the new Jupiter series 1U amps in stock,  there is a datasheet with various power tests at  http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/SoundgearJupiterSeries.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.soundgear.co.uk/images/SoundgearJupiterSeries.pdf




-------------
James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk



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