Class 4 lasers -Do I need a operating cert/license
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Category: Other Chat
Forum Name: Lighting Talk
Forum Description: All your lampy, laser and 'other' special FX needs....
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=103315
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Topic: Class 4 lasers -Do I need a operating cert/license
Posted By: Radius
Subject: Class 4 lasers -Do I need a operating cert/license
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 9:31am
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Before I start drooling over 2watt lasers with animation and the pricy software....I did a bit of checking.... From what I can see, any laser above 0.5Watts is a class 4 laser , capable of burning cloth and flesh. I want to know I can cover my proverbial, and convince club owners to let me in as a credible operator. Apart from the failsafe's below, is there a training course/license I need to be able to operate in a club ? thanks in advance Usually these lasers, have "failsafes" :- designed not to fire into one place fro more than a few milliseconds, emergency cut off, Operator lock/key block, to adjust to ensure no crowd scanning occurs. |
Replies:
Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 11:39am
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https://www.plasa.org/technical/guidance-for-the-safety-of-display-lasers/" rel="nofollow - https://www.plasa.org/technical/guidance-for-the-safety-of-display-lasers/ http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg224.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg224.htm Bit of reading for you until Norty gets here.. ------------- Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better. |
Posted By: Radius
Date Posted: 14 February 2019 at 1:15pm
| Nice one- I'll get reading ! |
Posted By: Radius
Date Posted: 18 February 2019 at 3:06pm
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I've also found this which in effect says "no2 you don't need a license. But of course you could blind someone !!! http://www.lasershowsafety.org/faq.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.lasershowsafety.org/faq.htm A few links to training courses but not sure how pricy that would be. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 18 February 2019 at 5:31pm
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Beware of reading US websites if you're in the UK, lots of different issues for them over there with the CDRH and the variance system. As Imageoven linked to, what used to be HSG95 got picked up for oversight by Plasa a few years back and brought up to date. Most of what need to know is in there, but you'll need some understanding and interpretation. If you're green to most of this, the best thing would be to speak to James Stewart at LVR Ltd, who basically trains most of the UK laserists, and works on larger events as a safety advisor. It works out about £300 for the day training with certification (or did when I did it) Obviously its a claimable expense if you're a company. James is also happy to discuss specific issues - I've contacted him about dealing with particular council officers in some cities, and all sorts of other things. Good guy, been in the business a long time. https://www.lvroptical.com/lasertraining.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.lvroptical.com/lasertraining.html And in response to your original question... No, you don't need a license (no such thing here), although you may be asked to prove competence, calculations if you want to crowd scan, basic H&S stuff, RAMS, risk assessment, etc Venues themselves have venue licenses, and may have special requirements for use of pyro, lasers and other special effects which requires paperwork to be submitted by the venue to licensing authority 28 days in advance of the event. They'll ask you to supply the required documentation, but these are not many I've found (Lambeth was always one where we had to) ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: IainB
Date Posted: 20 February 2019 at 11:19am
Perfect timing, next course is on Monday in Watford, Ive booked myself in
 price has slightly gone up £336 including the exam. |
norty303 wrote:Posted By: monkeypuzzle
Date Posted: 23 February 2019 at 12:10am
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Don't forget public liability insurance... its a must, make sure it actually covers what you do. ------------- blah blah blah blah blah...... |
Posted By: Radius
Date Posted: 23 February 2019 at 11:26am
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thanks Norty for the Sage advice ! I will get onto one of these courses once we are set up adding lasers to our show. Its good to know you need to check with a venue/council, and that you need to do calcs. I have seen some apps that offer such calcs, but I am sure I will be asking about all of that in due course.. Also a great point about public liability insurance, which if we do form a company in due course, we'd have to get. Thanks again for all the useful responses ! Hope I can find out a bit more and help other noobs ! |
Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 23 February 2019 at 11:37am
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..even if you're not a company get insurance! For your own sake!!! ------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down. |
Posted By: monkeypuzzle
Date Posted: 23 February 2019 at 8:33pm
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Yep, you as the person putting in the equipment are the person responsible. Anyone working in a public space, suppling, installing, operating any electrical items needs it official company or not. You will be the one that is sued if someone gets retinal damage from the laser. If they sue the venue, the venue would then look to take you to court. Sorry that sounds mega negative but its really important that you get PLI. There are many ways, joining one of the large DJ organisations (dave double decks type) can cost very little, otherwise Doodsons or others... ------------- blah blah blah blah blah...... |
Posted By: IainB
Date Posted: 26 February 2019 at 9:33pm
| 100% recommend the above course to anyone thinking about getting involved in lasers. Saying that, I now need to redesign my plans for mine in the marquee (height isn't a problem, distance from laser to audience is) |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 27 February 2019 at 12:21pm
It is not enough jut to have an app to do calcs, you'll need some way to measure power too. It is not an easy or straightforward path where I can just say 'buy X, do Y' This is why I recommend the course, James covers different methods of exposure assessment, and demos use of things like fast photodiodes, and the effect of having a (decent) scanfail in the system can make to exposure levels and powers. As Monkeypuzzle says, if you're doing any sort of work (you mentioned adding lasers to your show, which implies you're already doing some other form of production) then you need PLI. I'm only a sole trader/freelancer but I have PLI. Most of the venues I do won't allow me to work without it - even if they did I would still have it. I've already had one very expensive accident with a laser hit to a big LCD projector.... ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 27 February 2019 at 12:23pm
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IainB, if you can't increase distance, increase divergence. I've been using the Pangolin Safetyscan lenses for years (did James demo those?) and they are very good at reducing exposure ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: IainB
Date Posted: 27 February 2019 at 12:45pm
Yes, we went through the Pangolin lenses, though it appears my 'best' laser isn't actually legal as it hasn't got an interlock. I certainly had a few 'oh sh*t' moments during the course  rather interesting is that where it came from no longer sell lasers! (laserverkoop) I think I need to offload what I have and consider my options about either updating or removing them from my plans completely (which would be a shame as I wanted an aerial laser show)
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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 27 February 2019 at 4:53pm
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If its worth it, you could always retrofit an interlock. Yeah, amazing what you don't know you don't know. And how many people say 'oh there's no laws' whilst being ignorant of the exposure at work and the 60825 construction and use standards. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: IainB
Date Posted: 28 February 2019 at 11:06am
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Its certainly an eye opener, though I was very much a small fish with the introductions with everyone rolling out Glastonbury, Boomtown sized festivals and me...just starting out Going to spend some time over on photonlexicon work out whats what and then take decide what im going to do. Anyone who is thinking about playing around with Lasers should definitely do a course though! Money well spent
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Posted By: Radius
Date Posted: 28 February 2019 at 6:34pm
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Guys-thanks again- all the responses are gold dust. I was lucky enough to be forewarned slightly by someone in AV business ( ex dts/Christie's) that lasers are in fact something to be cautious of. I'm not deterred, but when putting together a business plan, I know the rough cost must include training courses . Of course anything else I can share to help, I will ! |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 01 March 2019 at 1:02pm
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Lasers are a funny business area really. Historically it would be people who had hobbyist interest then taking out to shows, being taught good practise (or bad!) by other old hands. Then they might go and do a course to get the relevant certs (sort of what I did but not really an old hand...). I knew most of what was covered in James' course, but only because I'd been involved in lots of discussions around safety etc online. Now there seems to be more people doing lighting/video/sound production that are either looking to step sideways to incorporate lasers, or being asked to do it by clients. I've been surprised by the numbers of people I hear about with little to no experience doing the course so they can do some of the bigger shows as IainB talked about. It's growing to be another string to the bow, rather than a specialism it seems. I guess some part of how I feel about it is the old dog protectionism that old sound guys have about new sound guys with their SMAART and stuff. But you'll never stop progress and its a good thing that lasers are back on the agenda, there was a period where they weren't used so much. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |