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Setting crossover and limiters

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Category: General
Forum Name: Newbie Discussion
Forum Description: Newbie Discussion/Questions. Look less stupid here...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=103833
Printed Date: 25 August 2019 at 3:20am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Setting crossover and limiters
Posted By: Will_H
Subject: Setting crossover and limiters
Date Posted: 04 June 2019 at 8:30pm
I’m having some difficulty setting up the crossovers and limiters. I have an ultra drive pro which I’ve tinkered and played with for hours and probably worn the manual out.

I have; Pair of Cray Acoustic 18” subs (b&c 18pzb100) and
A pair of EV Sx500

Any pointers on setting would be a great help. I have tried basic settings but the slope per octave etc is beyond me at the moment. I haven’t even started with limiters.

Many thanks.




Replies:
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 04 June 2019 at 8:42pm
24db lr (linkwitz reilly) on all filters for starters. dunno what your subs are but try low passing them at 90 or 100 at a guess? stick a high pass of 40hz as a safety. and tops, no low pass but high pass at 100 or so too? that's a start.


Posted By: Will_H
Date Posted: 04 June 2019 at 8:49pm


Posted By: Will_H
Date Posted: 04 June 2019 at 8:56pm
Thank you.

24db lr, what is that doing? This is where I get lost.
I’m not too far off on the other suggested settings there though, that’s roughly what I have.

Just to complicate, forgot to mention I will be bi-amping the tops.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 04 June 2019 at 9:55pm
24db per octave is the slope, and LR is the type of filter. if you look at the display on the ultradrive and change the slope, you'll see how it affcts the filter.

don't be afraid to play with it and try different things.


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 05 June 2019 at 1:13am
Originally posted by Will_H Will_H wrote:

24db lr, what is that doing? This is where I get lost.
Linkwitz-Riley (LR) is one of 3 common types of crossover filters used and it is oft recommended because two matching filters(one highpass one lowpass) at the same frequency will sum flat electrically.  Of course when you combine the crossover filter response with the drivers acoustic response the result will be something else but that's for another time.


Originally posted by Will_H Will_H wrote:

Just to complicate, forgot to mention I will be bi-amping the tops.
The fine owners manual found online says you need a 1.6khz 24dB crossover minimum between the woofer and compression driver.
With these crossovers setup you should first balance the system level wise across the 3 pass bands using the controls on the DCX.. the CD will likely have to be turned down 6dB-9db relative to the woofer.

What amps are you using for each section?
Depending what you have and how they are configured you may just need to set limiters to prevent the amps from hard clipping but it won't hurt to be more aggressive with the amp powering the CDs.




Posted By: citizensc
Date Posted: 05 June 2019 at 1:57am
Someone linked this in another thread a while back, iv used it to calculate our ultradrive limiters for a couple of years, haven't killed any drivers yet so I guess it works fine. 

http://www.jobst-audio.de/tools-nuetzliches/limiter" rel="nofollow - http://www.jobst-audio.de/tools-nuetzliches/limiter

Let me know if you need help with the release, or using that tool. 




Posted By: djgorey
Date Posted: 05 June 2019 at 7:33am
Originally posted by citizensc citizensc wrote:

Someone linked this in another thread a while back, iv used it to calculate our ultradrive limiters for a couple of years, haven't killed any drivers yet so I guess it works fine. 

http://www.jobst-audio.de/tools-nuetzliches/limiter" rel="nofollow - http://www.jobst-audio.de/tools-nuetzliches/limiter

Let me know if you need help with the release, or using that tool. 



That’s really really useful! Just one question - where it asks for speaker power handling, do you enter continuous or programme? In my head, programme makes more sense


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Gaffa tape is like the force in Star Wars - there's a dark side and a light side and it holds the universe together


Posted By: Will_H
Date Posted: 05 June 2019 at 12:04pm
I’m using and ep4000 bridged for the subs.
Very little info about on the cabs but they are reflex loaded and b&c driver spec.. 
Nominal Diameter 460 mm (18.0 in)
Nominal Impedance 8 Ω
Minimum Impedance 6.5 Ω
Nominal Power Handling 700w 
Continuous Power Handling 1400w
Sensitivity3 97.0 dB
Frequency Range 40-2000hz
Voice Coil Diameter 100m (4.0in)
Winding Material Copper
Former Material Glass Fibre
Winding Depth 21.0mm (0.83 in)
Magnetic Gap Depth 8.0mm (0.31 in)
Flux Density 1.15 T

Pv2600 for EV woofers 
(Will be) s100 t.amp for the CD’s. I do have other amps but after reading that the CD is rated at only 20w I’m afraid to use them.



Posted By: Will_H
Date Posted: 05 June 2019 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by citizensc citizensc wrote:

Someone linked this in another thread a while back, iv used it to calculate our ultradrive limiters for a couple of years, haven't killed any drivers yet so I guess it works fine. 

http://www.jobst-audio.de/tools-nuetzliches/limiter" rel="nofollow - http://www.jobst-audio.de/tools-nuetzliches/limiter

Let me know if you need help with the release, or using that tool. 


That is a great tool! Just wondering how I would enter the info if I’m running bridged mono? Is it a case of entering the amp power at 2800w and then adding the two speakers together to make 1400w?
Also am I using nominal (700w) or continuous (1400w) speaker power rating?


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 05 June 2019 at 12:34pm
B&C's 'continuous power handling' is actually the peak value, based on their own Klippel data.

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http://www.neuronproaudio.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.neuronproaudio.co.uk


Posted By: Will_H
Date Posted: 05 June 2019 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

B&C's 'continuous power handling' is actually the peak value, based on their own Klippel data.
Thank you, that’s good to know.


Posted By: citizensc
Date Posted: 05 June 2019 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by djgorey djgorey wrote:

Originally posted by citizensc citizensc wrote:

Someone linked this in another thread a while back, iv used it to calculate our ultradrive limiters for a couple of years, haven't killed any drivers yet so I guess it works fine. 

http://www.jobst-audio.de/tools-nuetzliches/limiter" rel="nofollow - http://www.jobst-audio.de/tools-nuetzliches/limiter

Let me know if you need help with the release, or using that tool. 



That’s really really useful! Just one question - where it asks for speaker power handling, do you enter continuous or programme? In my head, programme makes more sense

There are people on here that know more than me but I will try my best to answer.

It depends, i think different manufacturers have different methods of calculating figures. Also loading matters, is the rear chamber ported or sealed? If its sealed, heat may build up over time. Also is the material compressed? Or does it have a lot of dynamic range. Its average power over a given time that overheats voice coils.

My punishers loaded with 12.00sw are '1000watt continuous, 2000 program' but if you gave them 2000 watts, id imagine they would die immediately. I think even 1000 is pushing it, long term the rear chambers heat up and you can start to smell voice coils. I settled on 925.

On the other hand my 8pe21 loaded in xt8 mid horns are 200 continuous, 400 program, I give them 300 and they never showed any sign of stress. 

I guess its something you will have to figure out. But remember that doubling the power is going to produce less than 3db extra due to power compression. Is pushing your system to with in an inch of its life for a tiny gain worth it?


Posted By: djgorey
Date Posted: 15 June 2019 at 6:48pm
I’m certain this is a stupid question, but how does the limited on the Ultradrive work? Does it monitor the input signal and limit that so, for instance, if I turn my mixer down, but my amps up, I could send my speakers too hot a signal or does it throttle the output signal? I’ve set the limiters tonight for my 12” subs, but I still seem to have turned the amp up the same as on my 18”s? Does this sound right?

Edit: I'm being stupid


-------------
Gaffa tape is like the force in Star Wars - there's a dark side and a light side and it holds the universe together



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