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Audio Performance SK-F project

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=104476
Printed Date: 16 April 2024 at 10:54pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Audio Performance SK-F project
Posted By: smitske96
Subject: Audio Performance SK-F project
Date Posted: 07 November 2019 at 8:21pm
At the moment I have two SK-F cabinets with have been modified throughout the years. Both differ in loading and the current filters are not identical.

Cab 1:
12" --> L'acoustics HP BC122 (looks a lot like the 12TBX100) 
8"   --> No idea atm, no brand on it (needs a new dustcap)
1"   --> BMS 4548-16 (OEM)

Cab 2":
12" --> RCF L12P110K (is covered in dust and remains of the old damping foam?)
8"   --> same as cab 1 but condition is fine
1"   --> BMS 4548Plus-8 (OEM)

Current crossover frequencies are 600 Hz and 2000 Hz.
The cab has a filter between the 8" mid and 1" HF driver, the original filter is build for 16 Ohm nominal drivers. If the LA driver is a bit like the 12TBX100 the difference with the RCF is pretty big specifications wise. One BMS HF is 8 Ohm. 

First thing done, clean the inside of both cabs:


Current to do list:
-Check filters completely and draw up schematic
-Repair 8" driver and find out if it is the original one (or find spec sheet)
-Try o clean the RCF 12" although it looks almost impossile, it's a really sticky substance.
-Find two identical 12" drivers for low/mid section (I was thinking about something like the B&C 12MH32).
-Find two replacements for the BMS HF's

To be clear, the projects objective is not to make an amazing sounding cab, the recources and time aren't just there atm.




Replies:
Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 11 November 2019 at 7:00pm
New foam on the inside, and some minor woodwork has been done.

Both filters have been checked and the components are ok. The only thing I have to do is measure the inductance of each inductor.
New dustcap is ordered and the RCF is drying up a bit. It is still a bit wet and really sticky.


Posted By: AM55
Date Posted: 11 November 2019 at 11:55pm
They look like interesting cabs. How different did they sound?


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 12 November 2019 at 10:00am
One didn't have any mid/high, once I inspected the filters I saw that there were two faulty solderjoints. Low/mid was different soundwise, one had more pressence in the lower part of the spectrum (the one with the LA driver).


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 13 November 2019 at 11:35am
Does anyone have tips about cleaning the RCF's cone?
It is to that sticky anymore, but I doubt that I can get it off without the use of any fluids.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 13 November 2019 at 2:41pm
So after even being careful it's pretty clear that the cone is not savable.


It already has two major tears close to the surround, and it probably more will come when being used.
Reconing is also not high on my list because of the work and I still need to buy another one which would set me back more then find two capable replacements.


For now I have:

B&C 12MH32
Oberton 12B450
Lavoce WAN123.00




Posted By: Peter Jan
Date Posted: 13 November 2019 at 5:43pm
I'm almost sure I still have some "NOS" HP BC122 from back in the day when I had KUDO cabinets in use. Could that be an option to replace the RCF ? Have to look for it and not 100% sure I still have them, but if they are, they can go for a price in the whereabouts of what an RCF recone would cost.



Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 13 November 2019 at 5:59pm
That would be an option, only not sure atm if such a driver would suit the cab.
The 12" section should cover +-100Hz till 600Hz, large Xmax isn't necessar (it looks a lot like the 12TBX).

Maybe tomorrow I have some time to do some testing with the driver.


Posted By: Peter Jan
Date Posted: 13 November 2019 at 6:56pm
It looks like a TBX, but the BC122 has more efficiency, low(isch) Q, more suited to hornloading or in high tuned BR (low)mid duty.
I'll have a look after them BC122 tomorrow...


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 13 November 2019 at 7:57pm
If that's the case they would indeed be a good option.
If you have the time, let me know.

Thanks for the offer!


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 13 November 2019 at 10:55pm
Some pics of the 8" driver that yet has to be identified.



Pressed chassis, further only a serialnumber on the driver:
CAMP . . 628601300052679


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 14 November 2019 at 1:23am
i would totally have a go at that rcf with watered down pvc and some bits of jay cloth..

and the 8", could it be an old Ciare?


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 14 November 2019 at 9:34am
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

i would totally have a go at that rcf with watered down pvc and some bits of jay cloth..

and the 8", could it be an old Ciare?

I did some searching, however Ciare has some models who look like it, none of them match really.
Then I searched at Sica 8" and I found a model where the chassis and magnet look identical. I only can't find a picture were the cone is 100% visible.

Regarding the RCF, I think that would be really hard, I would need to cover the whole edge and the tears are right against the suspension. Repairing that would probably change the suspension characteristics quite a bit not?


Posted By: Peter Jan
Date Posted: 14 November 2019 at 10:29am
Turned everything upside down, but I have only a couple BC122 recone kits.

As for the RCF, this seems very repairable indeed, I have repaired far worse than that.
Don't worry about changing parameters, in this application the speaker wont be moving that much anyway and the impact on sound/SPL/etc. will be barely measurable, let alone you could hear it.
The difference between the B&C and the RCF is far greater than what you can accomplish with any repair of that kind.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 14 November 2019 at 10:53am
I can give it a try, but probably want to cover a whole ring since it will probably tear at other places.
I searched about repairing something like that, but couldn't find a good example/instructions.
Also I am not sure what jay cloth would be in Dutch LOL


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 14 November 2019 at 11:34am


it's not pretty.. but you can try and do it on the back side of the driver.

there's no reason not to try it.


Posted By: Mikkel
Date Posted: 14 November 2019 at 4:30pm
Rizla and pva works for me.


Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 14 November 2019 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Also I am not sure what jay cloth would be in Dutch LOL

If Cravings photo doesn't help, its basically very light fabric cloth sold as a general purpose kitchen cloth - you'll likely have something similar enough in any supermarket.
Cheers,
David.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 15 November 2019 at 12:31pm
I have found something similar. Would PVA glue suffice?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 15 November 2019 at 1:59pm
water it down so it's thinner. some people use coffee filter paper too.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 16 November 2019 at 4:43pm
In about one week I'll try and repair the RCF but I also have bought two L12P110K's for a good price.
One RCF and the LA driver will be sold.

Regarding the 8" driver, I have send Ciare an email about the driver with some pics and magnet dimensions, hopefully they can help me out. 
If they will suffice I'll keep them for the cab, otherwise I'll exchange them with something different like the B&C 8PE21.

Filters are checked and one has some minor work to it. I drew up the schematic and have simulated the circuit in LTspice. 

Does anyone have experience with the BMS 4548-16 OEM driver? I can't find that much about it, and would like to know if they are up to the job SPL/sound wise. For example a driver like the DE250 isn't that expensive for me.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 18 November 2019 at 12:00pm
The 8" driver is indeed Ciare made, it's the M200.50 C/Fx-MR

Power: 150 Watt
Max Power: 300 Watt
Re: 9,20 Ohm
Fs: 114 Hz
Cms: 0,00008975 m/N
Mms: 21,7 g
Le: 0,75 mH
Qms: 1,15
Qes: 0,40
Qts: 0,30
Vas: 5,76
BL: 18,94
u0: 2,05 %
Xmax: 0 mm
Sd: 214 cm2

When interpreting the specs it looks like a good candidate for the cab.
Testing will be done in the coming weeks.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 02 December 2019 at 3:03pm
Today I'm going to try and fix the L12P110K surround, and in this order probably:

-Make it as clean as possible for the glue
-Make several strips to patch it up
-Apply glue and the strips (on the back)
-Have patience
-Test

The only thing I am not sure about is how to apply the glue.
I also could apply some glue on the strips and then put them on the surround/cone.



Posted By: Old king coles
Date Posted: 02 December 2019 at 5:44pm
That's what I did previously,  and a little smear on the repair area for good measure...works a treat


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 02 December 2019 at 7:00pm
Now the last uncertainty LOL I have some white school glue but it is water-based.
Apart from the applications (paper and other light materials) there is no more info on the container regarding it's composition.


Posted By: Old king coles
Date Posted: 02 December 2019 at 7:10pm
I'd assume it's just standard pva 


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 23 December 2019 at 7:59pm
The result:

I patched it up on four areas, looks good enough so far. 
After christmas some testing/measuring is scheduled.


Posted By: AndyWave
Date Posted: 24 December 2019 at 12:32pm
Hi

Your reparation looks as it should. But a word of caution, if the patches glued are not on symmetrical pattern around the outer edge, there is a possibility of voice coil rubbing against pole pieces when cone excursion is high, as the patched part maybe now flexing in different manner compared to original outer suspension.

Same applies to repairing light or thin cones. If there is hole poked on one side, just apply same kind of patch on the opposite side to keep mass symmetrical around the voice coil and suspension.

In this case as it is a low mid driver, maybe not so much.


-------------
torturing electrons since ......


Posted By: Bams
Date Posted: 24 December 2019 at 12:48pm
seeing you are from the netherlands.. if u used "Knutsellijm" as used op school.. you are fine. reapply a few times though. i repaired some 15" jbls with it and they acted fine. not really waterresistant tough so make sure the speakerfoam is installed or such. 


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 24 December 2019 at 1:14pm
I did use "knutsellijm" LOL

It had to be repaired at two areas, both being on one half I did apply the same on the other side.
So now it is patched at four points (symmetrically and all backside). I don't expect to need much Xmax but it minor work to do it somewhat properly. 

I'll keep you informed the coming weeks Thumbs Up



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