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If you could have just 2 budget subs?

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Forum Description: Open Discussion / Questions
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=104816
Printed Date: 26 October 2020 at 10:24am
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Topic: If you could have just 2 budget subs?
Posted By: Noyzmunky
Subject: If you could have just 2 budget subs?
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 3:13pm
If you could only have two subs (maybe 3 ), must be able to be moved about by one person (on wheels) and wanted musical wobble over SPL throw what would you have?

I'm selling off all my old band kit and want a pair of good subs for fun. I have a pair of basic shelf 18'' reflex at the moment but I'm considering any other more efficient designs to swap to. I want real deep lows, -3db@42hz or better. Twin 18'' considered though I'd prefer the amp and weight requirements of a single 18''..

Whats better at being an X1 than an X1? What hits as well as a MACH m182r with one driver?

what designs or pro boxes are your favourites that I might be able to research? Hit me with your most loved subs... Budget options please, no £2400 each, current production Martin Audio bins.. stuff that's been about the block.

No horns please. I want to stand 3-7 meters away from them and get full field, I also don't want it travelling over the hill.

What ya got?

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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.



Replies:
Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 4:27pm
Few years ago I made for clients, two sets of 4x single 15" reflex bins for Fane Colossus 15XB. Net internal volume 87 litres, tuned to 55Hz. They have a very nice tone and useful output from 45Hz up. If you sim that in WinISD you should have a good starting point. I think they drop a bit lower than the sim in real life.

My boxes were made for minimum width. Internal width 420mm. So the outer dimensions are 456 wide x 606 tall x 658 deep (including a 20mm overhang at the front). Port is 150mm height x 420mm width x 491mm depth (from baffle).

You could easily make a double version by just sticking two together bottom to bottom. I would still have a dividing panel between the two parts though, so that if one driver blows the other is still safe.


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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 5:05pm
I'm no computer simulator, and my finish level is woeful for speaker building so I'm going for second hand pro builds like a nice RCF reflex or a pro carpenter built design. The EV RX18S looks interesting. odd design with that angled driver... also you can get a pair for 600.

Cheers for your reply man, I have seriously considered a pair of twin 15'' but I'v yet to find a design that goes low enough, though hard enough is not an issue. Also when people ask me what my little rig is I'd prefer to say it's 18'' loaded...


If I was a few years younger I would go for proper three way with a couple of those nice logic systems push/pull 15'' on kick but it's going to be 18's for the sub (I cant fit 21's in the car)

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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 5:06pm
also loved the 15xb back in the day. I think we were running 16 at one point, all in fane design folded horns.

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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 7:06pm
DV-SUB

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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: djgorey
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 7:20pm
TRS-118?  I don't know very much, but mine are lovely

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Gaffa tape is like the force in Star Wars - there's a dark side and a light side and it holds the universe together


Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 7:51pm
RC Audio uni bass, two of these is like having a whole stack of anything else, don't believe me? don't argue here. go to the demo in Sheffield later this month then come back here and tell me I'm wrong.



Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 8:20pm
Cheers guys! An evening of internet page sifting begins.

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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 9:31pm
To add another box or two.

X1's Sound very nice.

Logic systems twin 18 push pull PHL loaded, the taller ones not the short ones. Not sure of the model number but they sounded lovely, a really nice deep thump.

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In bass no one can hear you scream!


Posted By: Digbethdave
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 9:49pm
B2


Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by concept-10 concept-10 wrote:

RC Audio uni bass, two of these is like having a whole stack of anything else, don't believe me? don't argue here. go to the demo in Sheffield later this month then come back here and tell me I'm wrong.

  

 They do look a bit of a beast! No response graph though on their website or even an F3 point...


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 11:14pm
Whats the point of suggesting anything when we dont know your budget?

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: BJtheDJ
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 3:30am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Whats the point of suggesting anything when we dont know your budget?



OP said "Budget options please, no £2400 each, current production Martin Audio bins.. stuff that's been about the block."

So nothing wildly expensive like current Martin bins, and nothing that's had seven shades of sh!t blown out of it.


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Only users lose drugs


Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 7:12am
Master Audio MD218SW with the processed 3K6 amp. Now Thats a set i would like to have Embarrassed


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 9:08am
cheers guys. I'm kinda leaning toward a pair of X1's at the moment. Nice warm response down to 30 odd hz and still viable to move about the place with just me. Twin 6bp would be great, as would three lab horns but I think size will get prohibitive.

Cheers to BJtheDJ for noticing the budget requirements.
This is a project almost entirely just for my own ears so some realities need to be addressed..

So the upshot seems to be modern powered subs (out of the question given budget and set up space) or an old design of Rog that still goes the distance like the X1.

I will continue trawling the net for likely contenders.

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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 9:59am
I would put money against a DV-Sub totally destroying a X1 in a similar sized cabinet.

Only disadvantage is the DV-Sub needs a adult amplifier as it’s 2.66r


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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:

I would put money against a DV-Sub totally destroying a X1 in a similar sized cabinet.

Only disadvantage is the DV-Sub needs a adult amplifier as it’s 2.66r



I don't doubt it, but, and it really is a big one as they are current production and... can I find two of them for less than a grand a pair? Doubtful.

a pair of PD1850 loaded probuild X1's went for 500 a few weeks back. Bang for buck is there anything better? given my brief of cheap, low hz, easy to handle and not a horn.


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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: Meat
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 12:52pm
X1s are quite a big box. How important is the one man lift part of the spec... ...not sure I'd be one-man lifting them loaded with 1850s.

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Don't test the champignon sound


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 1:20pm
'quite' important from my point as I'll be taking them out of the container on sunny days while I work and I'm up there on my own mostly.

That's not to say I can't build a ramp though..



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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 1:29pm
x1s are movable on wheels but they're not a one man lift at all.


Posted By: el chupacabra
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 5:45pm
if there's a couple of arcline x still kicking about (not that many were made) - they'd be great for a lil one person rig. light, drop as low as is needed to be musical for pretty much anything, pretty efficient.

2x15" ported horn config.


Posted By: al_x
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 6:15pm
X1’s with void v18-1000’s with 1.5k coming from the amp sound brutal. Even in singles. 
£290 for the driver, £60 for 1 1/2 sheets of birch ply. 

The RC1 as mentioned are supposed to be good, a 22”(?) reflex design with 3000w rms active amp I think. 
But they are something like 3 or 4 grand plus vat each. 


Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 8:23pm
Someone told me the other day about a dual 12 from Thomann that is getting very good reviews, not heard it but maybe worth a look. will be cheep to.




Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 8:58pm


I will have a look at the thomann stuff. it gets good reviews for budget kit.



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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 9:06pm
that little Thomann box is a bit mental

there are some decent looking ideas there for a new budget buy. cheers.

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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 9:58pm
No probs


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 09 February 2020 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by Noyzmunky Noyzmunky wrote:

Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:

I would put money against a DV-Sub totally destroying a X1 in a similar sized cabinet.

Only disadvantage is the DV-Sub needs a adult amplifier as it’s 2.66r



I don't doubt it, but, and it really is a big one as they are current production and... can I find two of them for less than a grand a pair? Doubtful.

a pair of PD1850 loaded probuild X1's went for 500 a few weeks back. Bang for buck is there anything better? given my brief of cheap, low hz, easy to handle and not a horn.

I don’t think they have made DV-Subs for a good 10-15 years. I maybe wrong
DV-Subs go for around £750 a box now.

But sounds like you made your mind up on X1’s so best of luck :)


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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 10 February 2020 at 8:34am
Originally posted by Noyzmunky Noyzmunky wrote:

that little Thomann box is a bit mental

there are some decent looking ideas there for a new budget buy. cheers.

I’d lay money on that Thomann twin 12” sub being a copy or derivative of one of the old EAW bent horn subs, perhaps the BH940. Bear in mind that these are unlikely to meet their low frequency response specs in singles, they will like to be in groups of 4 minimum. On their own are likely to sound dry and gutless


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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: JBK
Date Posted: 10 February 2020 at 8:50am
guys, there are two different models of 2x12 subs sold by thomann's brand T-Box
- the box Pyrit 212 Sub
- the box pro Achat 212H-SUB

I'm not sure you all speak about the same cab...


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https://www.facebook.com/rootikalvibeshifi

http://jbkaudio.fr

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKB8xPHqsVywM2EgtOaMjdgfIUf_-kFdV


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 10 February 2020 at 9:16am
I don't think many on here would think much of the Pyrit sub, that looks distinctly average. The 212H looks moderately interesting at least, i think we are all looking at that one

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: citizensc
Date Posted: 10 February 2020 at 11:30am
Is the 212H a FLH? if so, I kind doubt it will be close to those specs with out coupling in a block of 4. 


Posted By: RiddimKid
Date Posted: 10 February 2020 at 1:29pm
The Thomann box pro double 12 Pyrit sub is the one everybody raves about. I have a pair and they do live up to the hype when set correctly. Only real issue is the weight at 41 kgs each but with casters they ain’t that bad. I’ve used them 1 a side with yammie dxr12s above and have filled out small rooms nicely.

A system has about 8 of them and uses them most weekends instead of his 18s




Posted By: Digbethdave
Date Posted: 10 February 2020 at 8:50pm
If you go X1, I'd suggest the letterbox version might be better. And yes X1's will wobble your eyes. 


Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 11 February 2020 at 8:15am
Originally posted by RiddimKid RiddimKid wrote:

The Thomann box pro double 12 Pyrit sub is the one everybody raves about. I have a pair and they do live up to the hype when set correctly. Only real issue is the weight at 41 kgs each but with casters they ain’t that bad. 

A system has about 8 of them and uses them most weekends instead of his 18s

I wonder if they really do go down to 32 hz @ -3dB, in real world scenarios. Has anyone measured them yet? 

I wouldnt see the weight as an issue, actually the opposite. Must be solid. If it is well engineered and built. Looks quite nice. Thumbs Up


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 11 February 2020 at 3:45pm
So I have gone for three 1000watt LIGWA reflex boxes. The ones with the single port on the front. Got for a good price and I can move each one about. three together will give near the same output as two X1's and I can move them and they are a ridiculous improvement over my current 18''s.. Job done...

Cheers for all your suggestions. It's interesting to see what people like after most stuffs gone out of production. very informative.

Cheers all.

-------------
my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.



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