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Solder questions.

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Category: General
Forum Name: Newbie Discussion
Forum Description: Newbie Discussion/Questions. Look less stupid here...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=105048
Printed Date: 20 April 2024 at 9:02am
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Topic: Solder questions.
Posted By: bin juice24
Subject: Solder questions.
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 1:49pm
Help please!
I’m trying to connect my internal wire to speakon plate.its refusing to adhere. What am I doing wrong? Would I be better using spade connectors?



Replies:
Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:18pm
You can solder to those tabs. You need a decent iron though. A 25 watt Antex isn't really hot enough. A 50 watt model is better, or a Weller type temp controlled model. Also, leaded solder is 10000% superior to lead free. If you can only get lead free, try using some extra flux with it, and even MORE heat.

First heat up the tab and melt a little bit of solder onto it. Then strip and apply plenty of solder to the end of the wire, it needs to be well soaked in. Then slide some 1/4" heatshrink up the wire.

Now take the wire in a pair of pliers, and press the soldered end up against the tab using the tip of the soldering iron. The solder in the wire and on the tab should melt and flow together. As soon as this has happened, remove the iron and hold it in place with the pliers until the solder sets. Now slide the heatshrink down over it, and apply heat to shrink it.

Artery forceps are even better than pliers for this (aka locking forceps). You can clip them onto the wire, and then you don't have to use any force to hold onto it. You can also use them to clip 2 wires together, so you can solder them both onto a tab at the same time.


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Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:29pm
Also check if the tabs show signs of corosion, as this may be the reason why your solder refuses to adhere to them. Use some steelwhool or sandpaper to clean them and then try again ;)


Posted By: Djdarch
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:29pm
scratch up the tab a bit with a screwdriver , the solder will then stick to it better.


Posted By: Shortrope
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:35pm
Sounds like you need a beefier Soldering Iron.

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Posted By: bin juice24
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:36pm
Big thanks! I’ll try again but hotter.
If it’s not adhering to the surface, is it lack of heat?
Temp on iron goes up to 480, is that enough?
Is generic solder wire (came with the iron) okay?
Thanks again


Posted By: Shortrope
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:40pm
480 is loads (presuming thats Celsius), I usually do those at 400.
What kinda tip do you have?
The larger chisel/spade tips are best for that, something with a bit of surface area to transmit the heat to the tab fast.


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My Tinnitus is coming along nicely!!


Posted By: bin juice24
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 2:51pm
There’s loads of tips, I just went the random approach.

It’s on! And fairly sturdy too.

Thanks for your advice, much appreciated.

So.......does heating up the wire and the plate excessively, affect anything? Anything to consider, other than melting the numbers off?


Posted By: bin juice24
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 3:05pm
Also, I’m going to wire from one female speakon to the other in parallel. To run a second cabinet off each side.
Are there any reasons why I shouldn’t do this? Is there something I should consider first?

Thanks 


Posted By: APC321
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 3:43pm
The generic solder than came with your iron is very unlikely to be leaded solder.

As others have said you need leaded solder.


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 4:04pm
Definitely try get yourself some leaded solder for this. The unleaded stuff needs a much higher temperature - and if you aren´t quick while doing the job, you will melt the rubber and risk messing up the Speakons.

Or:- 

Yes, just use faston connectors. That may be the simplest solution for you.




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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 4:08pm
keep your tip wet. whenever you want to transfer heat, melt a little solder onto the tip first, it fills in any gaps for a better transfer.

I also feed a bit of solder into the tip / join junction when the two tinned parts are being heated.


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Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.


Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 31 March 2020 at 6:13pm
Or use fastons...

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Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 01 April 2020 at 2:49pm
Fastons are quite good, but unless you are very good at crimping, and using quite thin cable, you still want to solder the cable into the Faston - and then heatshrink it for good measure.

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Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 01 April 2020 at 5:11pm
Agreed for to say about heat - shrink, i built 100s of boxs and using 2.5mm in Fastons, quick easy...with good crimp

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Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...


Posted By: cuttinraza
Date Posted: 01 April 2020 at 8:57pm
u know what pal u made me realise that ive many spare pairs of these in my carp kit, what a good move! thanks mr studio45
Smile


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 02 April 2020 at 10:46am
I tin the wires, put a bit of shrink wrap over, faston the wires, then slide over the terminal and gently apply a little solder to that connection, then shrink wrap the lot in.

I frikking HATE trying to get fresh wire to stick to fresh terminals. Bollox to that for a larf. (I recently had to remind myself of these facts as I went through the process of making patch panels after 13 years from it.)

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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 02 April 2020 at 11:17am
I have to say ive never had an issue soldering onto speakon tabs, new or otherwise, even ones that have tarnished following storage. And often with a bog standard 25W Antex ( my toolbox iron when im not at my repair desk). Tin both parts, then bring together, mo further solder needed.
That said, i only use 40/60 tin lead flux cored solder. Irritatingly you now technically need to be a limited company with a credit account with a trade supplier to buy the stuff, something i only found out when i tried to order a new roll, and had to open a credit account to do so ( i own a limited company), something i don't bother with as i run the business debt and credit free. Another example of the nanny state...


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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: bin juice24
Date Posted: 02 April 2020 at 5:59pm
I’m a Ltd company, or director of.
Who supplies the lead stuff? Is it restricted for health reasons then? What precautions should one take? Don’t solder shit loads and inhale it? Work with it daily?
Cheers


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 02 April 2020 at 6:17pm
I purchase from Rapid electronics usually, however all the usual suspects will have it.
It is restricted for health reasons, it should only  be used to repair existing equip That uses leaded solder, and for certain risk /safety critical areas such as military and aerospace applications.

Other than the obvious don't eat after handling before washing hands etc, then the most obvious risk is inhalation of flux fumes / vapor. The metals themselves wont be vaporized unless you like  soldering with a mapp gas torch etc, but flux vapor can be an irritant. Airflow management will deal with it in the vast majority of situations .



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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 02 April 2020 at 11:13pm
never had any problem doing this with lead-free solder, never needed flux. I can only think either you are using very thick wire and your iron isn't powerful enough to heat it up, or the terminals are dirty/corroded. or have you been running your iron at 450C and ruined the tip?


Posted By: Greg32
Date Posted: 03 April 2020 at 11:44am
Clean the tab with steel wool or emery paper 600 grit until it shines then try soldering. Your pic looks like it's well tarnished. Greg


Posted By: VECTORDJ
Date Posted: 04 April 2020 at 2:13am
Hi, Use a metal file to rough up the tab so the solder can hold on to the new textured surface. Use solder with lead in it if possible.  For many years I used solder that My Father sourced from Bath Iron Works ( where they build USA warships). This solder had lots of lead in it.  He is retired and does not work there any more.  I now have to use the run of mill solder that does not stick without roughing up the surface.


Posted By: BJtheDJ
Date Posted: 04 April 2020 at 3:17am
Originally posted by bin juice24 bin juice24 wrote:

I’m a Ltd company, or director of.
Who supplies the lead stuff? Is it restricted for health reasons then? What precautions should one take? Don’t solder shit loads and inhale it? Work with it daily?
Cheers


I buy from eBay, I don't use it a lot - only for mic cable repairs so I don't use a lot, but it's so much easier using the 60/40 that the non-lead stuff


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It's a difficult choice, would you rather have:

A: A vegan son.
B: An OnlyFans daughter


Posted By: bin juice24
Date Posted: 12 April 2020 at 3:21pm
This is doing my head in now! I’m trying to solder two wires off one tab ( one to the driver and one to the other socket, thus parallel) and it just won’t have it. Must both wires be soldered (both +1) at the same time?


Posted By: bin juice24
Date Posted: 12 April 2020 at 3:41pm
New tip sorted it!

Looks horrible though.


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 12 April 2020 at 4:56pm
Tin both wires separately then use heatshrink to hold them together in 'shotgun' formation then solder both to the tab at once.


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 8:45am
A little tip.

When you are trying to solder 2 cables on to one tab, 

Tin both cables separately. 

Then when cool, Join both cables together with PVC Electrical tape.

I use PVC tape as when the outside insulation of the cable heats up the PVC tape won't damage it.

Also the PVC tape comes of easily.



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www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 8:55am
I merely twist both conductors together tightly before tinning, cut to length, tin the tab, then apply heat to both when brought together. Thats worked well for me for the last 30 years

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 9:09am
It really sounds like your soldering iron is not generating enough heat for the job. Have you sorted out some leaded solder? It´s going to be a lot more difficult, if not impossible with the unleaded stuff.




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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: bin juice24
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 9:27am
Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

Is this suitable? 63/37 0.8mm 50g Tin Lead Rosin Core Solder Flux Soldering Welding Iron Wire UK


Posted By: GAZ.
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 9:35am
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

I merely twist both conductors together tightly before tinning, cut to length, tin the tab, then apply heat to both when brought together. Thats worked well for me for the last 30 years


This is my method also.
A quality iron and leaded solder will make all the difference.
Soldering is a skill that takes practice, you will get good at it with time.

Maybe get some old circuit boards and parts and pieces of wire to practice with. This is how I learned when I first started.

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100% Earth Moving Bass


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 9:50am
I had an dad that screwed brass screws in bits of old skirting board and had me wiring up basic  electronic circuits by soldering between them. Kind of DIY vero board. I was 5, so i guess thats when the rot set in!

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 10:19am
Different ways, same result.

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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: lag
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 4:59pm
If your iron is struggling to solder the two wires to the tab, you can strip back a bit more insulation from the cable than you might normally. Then twist the conductors of both cables together but leaving one of the cable lengths longer. Tin both cables. You will be left with both cables joined but one cable extending a little further and maintaining the 2.5mm (or whatever cable diameter you are using) instead of the thickness of two cables. This will make it easier to solder to the speakon... It will be like soldering a single cable to the tab - a bit easier than two! Kinda tricky to explain but this might help you.


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 13 April 2020 at 5:24pm
If using the method above, I would strongly advise applying heat shrink to the un-insulated area where the two conductors are twisted together. 

In all honesty however, I would strongly recommend investing in a good iron. They should last a very long time indeed. 


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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: Digbethdave
Date Posted: 17 July 2020 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

If using the method above, I would strongly advise applying heat shrink to the un-insulated area where the two conductors are twisted together. 

In all honesty however, I would strongly recommend investing in a good iron. They should last a very long time indeed. 
The £160 odd weller with temp control is actually pretty good. It replaced my 30yo weller 45w with MM base recently.



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 17 July 2020 at 7:38pm
Yes, cant go wrong with weller. I have their temp controlled 50w 24v, a 100w and a 200w which is ancient and looks like some type of medieval torture device ( and which it would probably be very effective as). You can solder 120mm2 to a lug with that if you want. 

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”



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