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HD15 Measurements

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Category: Plans
Forum Name: HD 15 horn
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the HD 15 horn
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=105533
Printed Date: 27 January 2023 at 6:07pm
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Topic: HD15 Measurements
Posted By: JulianDA
Subject: HD15 Measurements
Date Posted: 24 July 2020 at 1:27am
Greetings!

Since I could'nt find any measurements of HD15 when my friend and I thought about building our first ones and since there are people asking for those over and over again, I decided to take some measurements before we sell our HD15 and post them on here.

We did measurements of 1, 2 and 4 HD15 loaded with Oberton 15B450 drivers in a parallel configuration. They were done in a field with just some bushes to the side (2 Pi) on the ground with approx. 3,5m distance from the stack. The Mic was the Beyerdynamic MM1 which is not calibrated for actual soundpressure, so just ignore the absolute dB-levels.

This is the result and some pics of the setup/measurement-conditions:











I hope these measurements can help some people to decide wether or not to build their own HD15 :)



Replies:
Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 24 July 2020 at 5:30am
Hi Julian, great post! Thank you for sharing this. This is highly useful! It is lacking a bit of circumstantial information though, which would add greatly to its value. Amping, power levels......

 Could you also please add information about the processing? I assume you have had a high pass filter in place? If so, please add cutoff frequency and filter order to your previous post. This is crucial. 


Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 24 July 2020 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

Hi Julian, great post! Thank you for sharing this. This is highly useful! It is lacking a bit of circumstantial information though, which would add greatly to its value. Amping, power levels......

 Could you also please add information about the processing? I assume you have had a high pass filter in place? If so, please add cutoff frequency and filter order to your previous post. This is crucial. 


Hey Bob,
since I wanted to provide accurate frequency response plots, there is no processing involved. No EQ, no HPF or LPF, just the fullrange signal to one ampchannel of a T.Amp TSA 4-1300. I did not alter the gainstructure when connecting more Speakers in a parallel configuration (so its a load of 8, 4 and 2 Ohms)
I would assume the cabs got something in the range of 10W but i just made sure its loud enough for a good measurement. Like i said, the mic is not calibrated for absolute levels, so the 130dB have no meaning. I can just provide the relative difference in soundpressure when using 1, 2 and 4 cabs and the change in the frequency response :)

But if it helps: We used the Yamaha Steinberg UR12 audio interface connected to a DCX2496 (without any processing enabled) which itself was connected to the TSA 4-1300 with just one channel used. There where no changes made when connecting more cabs :)



Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 24 July 2020 at 3:38pm
Interesting stuff, thanks for posting the data. I don't suppose you measured THD % at the same time? You can certainly see the useful bandwidth broadening as the mouth area comes up. Rapid fall off at 80Hz due to horn length as any fule kno, hence great partner to X1 etc when aligned well.


Posted By: VECTORDJ
Date Posted: 25 July 2020 at 12:55am
A+



Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 30 July 2020 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by odc04r odc04r wrote:

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting the data. I don't suppose you measured THD % at the same time? You can certainly see the useful bandwidth broadening as the mouth area comes up. Rapid fall off at 80Hz due to horn length as any fule kno, hence great partner to X1 etc when aligned well.


Thanks :) 
You are right, we did not measure the THD... but I would like to do that if someone can tell me how to accomplish this with ARTA as the measurement software. 
But I will just measure it for 2 HD15, since we already use two of the drivers in our new horns and its such a PITA to put the drivers back into the HD15. 
If you can tell me how to measure the THD, I can compare the HD15 to our new horn if this is interesting to you :)

Regarding the bandwidth broadening of the HD15, I would say that the effect of the bigger mouth area is probably located higher up frequency. In my opinion this effects reduces the ripples in the range of 150 to 500Hz. The "bassextension" down to 80-90Hz is achived by the bandpass effect of the frontchamber and shows just a little improvement with the bigger mouth.


Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 30 July 2020 at 4:34pm
Ah yes, not so sure about ARTA. Tend to use REW for this type of thing. Quick check of ARTA's manual online says it will do THD, doesn't seem too complicated. Investigating THD as a function of power would be interesting, maybe gives a clue as to why people think HDs can honk high up.

Yes fair point re. that resonance that is suppressed with increasing mouth area. It is an interesting one albeit a bit of a moot point as no-one would ever play the cabs that high. It could be related to the L/A relationship of the bandpass port. I wonder also if the presence of that resonance is another reason that people find HDs honky up in that region near 200Hz.


Posted By: djkeet
Date Posted: 06 August 2020 at 1:46pm
Out of interest JulianDA what horns have you replaced your HD's with and what was the xover freq used when they were part of your set up. Also based on your findings in general do you think you could make an educated guess on how HD's will perform based on physical attributes and drivers used. Its interesting to note that the bigger mouth has little effect on bass extension. I always seem to view HD's as a take on a 'Turbo' Turbosound so any variation in design, drivers defo have to be considered so is this design flexi enough for other drivers or is it just the 15B450

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Soundbite


Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 06 August 2020 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by odc04r odc04r wrote:

Ah yes, not so sure about ARTA. Tend to use REW for this type of thing. Quick check of ARTA's manual online says it will do THD, doesn't seem too complicated. Investigating THD as a function of power would be interesting, maybe gives a clue as to why people think HDs can honk high up.

Yes fair point re. that resonance that is suppressed with increasing mouth area. It is an interesting one albeit a bit of a moot point as no-one would ever play the cabs that high. It could be related to the L/A relationship of the bandpass port. I wonder also if the presence of that resonance is another reason that people find HDs honky up in that region near 200Hz.


Sooo...we tried to measure the THD but had limited success because of an less then optimal location. I will update you with the THD when we have time to drive to the location of the first measurements :)

Originally posted by djkeet djkeet wrote:


Out of interest JulianDA what horns have you replaced your HD's with and what was the xover freq used when they were part of your set up. Also based on your findings in general do you think you could make an educated guess on how HD's will perform based on physical attributes and drivers used. Its interesting to note that the bigger mouth has little effect on bass extension. I always seem to view HD's as a take on a 'Turbo' Turbosound so any variation in design, drivers defo have to be considered so is this design flexi enough for other drivers or is it just the 15B450


We replaced them with my own design. You can see the development of it in this thread:
https://forum.speakerplans.com/15-horn-to-go-over-x1s_topic103148.html" rel="nofollow - https://forum.speakerplans.com/15-horn-to-go-over-x1s_topic103148.html

The HD15 were used as kicks above X1 Subs and the XOver was set to LR24 at 71Hz and LR24 at 151Hz (71Hz provided a nice coupling with the X1s and above 151Hz they just dont sound right...i.e. the honkyness) But i cant tell you the delay and phase settings from the top of my head, sorry.

Regarding your other question, there are a lot of forum threads about suitable drivers, but i cant comment on that, since we just tested and used the 15B450 and were quite happy with them. 

I dont know what you mean with the physical attributes, maybe you can elaborate that a bit more?

PS: The thing about the bassextension and the hornmouth isnt really that supprising. Any horn has its characteristic "base-resonance" which is dependant on its lenght. The lowest resonance is the quarter-wave-resonance of this lenght, so the resonant frequency has a wavelenght of 4 times the lenght of the horn. The hornmouth has to have an adequate size to ensure a good impedance-match to the outside world at this frequency. So if you put horns together that are to small on their own, you can get a better loading (more efficiency) down to that frequency. But below that you dont get much more gain, since the horns are still to short (to be exact, you will see the resonance frequency shifting a little bit lower, since the horns gain some "virtual" lenght because of the boundarys)

If you translate this to the HD15 with its roughly 60cm hornlenght you get a quarter-wave-resonance at ~140Hz (the wavelenght is 240cm, so 4x60cm). Below that, the bandpass chamber dominates the output. You can see this effect in my measurements, since the ripples above ~140Hz get smaller with more cabs, while the form of the graph below that frequency stays nearly the same.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 06 August 2020 at 3:29pm
Great work.

I know you said the cabs don't sound right abve, 150hz, but the response graphs tell me , with right drivers, and smoothing eq, 70-300hz is acheivable.

I had authentic THL 818s, and I had them doing 70-500hz quite decently, with regular Fane 15B600s,  and the right shaping eq.

I was more interested in lower mid vocals, than thumping kick.



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: djkeet
Date Posted: 06 August 2020 at 3:34pm


I dont know what you mean with the physical attributes, maybe you can elaborate that a bit more?
[/QUOTE]
What I was alluding to was variations on the same theme/other ppls designs. But if your noticing honking @ certain freq prob the design as gone as far as it can go I will look @ your thread with your own design cheers.

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Soundbite


Posted By: Kalle76
Date Posted: 12 April 2021 at 2:41pm
Hi Julian,

i was building some HD15 on my own, but my measurements were really weird with the pd.154.
Could you maybe post your plan, so i can compare what crap i did there?
Did you damp the rear chamber or something?

Greetings




Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 12 April 2021 at 8:20pm
Hey Kalle,

We just used the original plans from this website and approximated the curve with 3 straight sections. There was no wadding inside the chamber and no other modifications.
If you want more HD15 drop me a message, we want to sell our 6 boxes unloaded for a relatively small amount of money ;)


Posted By: Kalle76
Date Posted: 13 April 2021 at 5:52pm
Thanks for your offer, but i have some on my own :D

But maybe someone else could explain me why my measurement of the HD15s looks like this...

I uses a Scarlett Solo in combination with the ECM8000 Mic. All my other measurements look quite normal so i assumed its the cabinets fault. I used 5 angled pieces to approximate the curvature and built in the pd.154

https://imgur.com/a/HdqJOZd - https://imgur.com/a/HdqJOZd


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 13 April 2021 at 6:07pm
How was your setup exactly? Outside/Inside?, walls, etc?


Posted By: Kalle76
Date Posted: 13 April 2021 at 7:30pm
I measured it in 2Pi free fiel outside but it was standing on my SBH. Could this make such a difference?


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 13 April 2021 at 9:58pm
Yes that probably is the cause of the dip around 140-200Hz.


Posted By: Kalle76
Date Posted: 14 April 2021 at 5:35pm
Ok thank you, a measurement on the ground made u huge difference.
But i mean if i cant use them on my SBHs they are virtually useless for me... what can i do to make them run properly in this case? Are there other cabins for a pd.154 that work better?
I thought of the BPH-238 maybe. 



Posted By: Kalle76
Date Posted: 25 April 2021 at 1:15pm
Hi again, i tried to measure them again a few times with different positionings but this dip at about 150Hz is still occuring. Maybe anyone of you could explain me that because i have no idea....


Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 25 April 2021 at 2:44pm
Are you measuring with the mic laying on the ground or do you have it somewhere above the ground? You should measure low frequencies with the mic on the ground so you dont get cancellations due to pathlength differences between the direct sound and the sound that gets reflected on the ground between your box and the microphone ;)


Posted By: Besa
Date Posted: 28 August 2022 at 9:44am
Thank you for the measurements. 
I have got 6x hd15 loaded with pd154. I’m going to build another couple of that, having a total of 8x hd15. 
This week I’m going to buy 6x Funktion one Evo6sh. They should be crossed at 220hz reading the website. 
I think it could be dangerous to cross them lower. I suppose to run the hd15 higher to couple better with those mid tops. 
How do this “honky effect” affect the sound? 
Do you think it is possible to play good sound with it or I should change enclosure? Even with horn coupling effect at higher frequency. 

I would update the thread when I complete all the new box. 
Thanks


Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 3:07pm
I would not advise to use HD15 above ~150Hz. But since you allready have some, why not try it out yourself, maybe it sounds okay to you :) 
We changed to our own design (there is a thread about it in the new projects forum) to allow us to use the kicks higher up and to gain a better impulse response (i.e. better "punch") by not using a resonant chamber for the lower frequencies.


Posted By: Besa
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 9:00pm
For sure I will try and decide. I will update the post as soon as I get the test. 
Another question:
Do you think it can be problematic getting those higher frequency in a horn kick bin? Not because it’s a horn but because e.g. some lower vocal frequency can be reproduced by the kick bin getting a bad coloration. 


Posted By: teeth
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 11:54pm
yes i do think that.

kicks (and particularly horny ones) benefit from having a very precise band and deployment. the closer you get to doing low mids, the more you compromise their ability to do what they are best at

i guess it's the same reason that you miss out by getting them going too low too


Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 11:56pm
I am looking forward for your results :)

But regarding your question, i don't think that i am the right person to answer this since i am lacking the experience in reproducing music with a lot of vocals... I like the sound of our horns for techno and psytrance, but we never play "normal" music through them for partys. 
But there are a lot of people with more experience and knowledge on this forum that can maybe answer it for you :)


Posted By: Besa
Date Posted: 22 September 2022 at 12:03am
I agree with your argument. 
Actuallly lot of kick bin / midbass are used up to 250Hz. 
E.g. : Evo6 15”section, turbosound tse215, Martin f2b / f215…
Can I assume this should be the upper limit of a FLH/BPH of 15” doing midbass? 
Reflex obviously can go higher but have others disvantages

@julienDA
Ok thank you I play lot of techno too. Then in your situation despite of techno hasn’t got much vocals do you find hd15 honky too?


Posted By: JulianDA
Date Posted: 22 September 2022 at 12:13am
Originally posted by Besa Besa wrote:

@julienDA
Ok thank you I play lot of techno too. Then in your situation despite of techno hasn’t got much vocals do you find hd15 honky too?

Yes, that was one of the main reasons for our upgrade. but from 70-150Hz we liked our HD15. The only "problem" for us was the, for a lack of better words, slower/muddy sound that comes from having a resonant chamber for the lower frequencies. A normal FLH sounds better for kicks in my opinion because of the better transient response. 
But this is not so bad that it isn't usable. Its more of a preference i think and we were really happy with our HD15 for a long time. 


Posted By: Besa
Date Posted: 22 September 2022 at 12:16am
I ever thought that hd15 was the best bin in terms of transient response. I need to listen other type of bins. 
Thank you for the infos 


Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 22 September 2022 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Besa Besa wrote:

Thank you for the measurements. 
This week I’m going to buy 6x Funktion one Evo6sh. They should be crossed at 220hz reading the website. 
I think it could be dangerous to cross them lower. 


Unless you want an expensive recone bill, I wouldn't recommend crossing the EVO6 any lower than Funktion specify.

HD15 are totally inappropriate for use running up that high due to the honking sound they produce much above 140-150Hz.

Calum over at calumaudio.co.uk is supposed to be working with a new 15" BPH design in the next few weeks that should be perfect for the job if you're in no rush and have the budget for new-builds, otherwise you're going to be looking at TSE-115/215, Funktion F115/215, or some sort of straight horn if you don't want the more signature Turbo/Funktion sound to match your tops

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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 22 September 2022 at 2:57pm
https://www.funktion-one.com/products/evo-7tl-215/" rel="nofollow - https://www.funktion-one.com/products/evo-7tl-215/ is definitely what you want, regardless of the EVO box on top. Just depends if you can get them at a price you like.


Posted By: re-production
Date Posted: 22 September 2022 at 7:01pm
The Funktion One F215 is designed to go with the Evo 6EH. If you have paid the proper money for the Evo 6EH I would highly recommend getting the proper solution, why pair a £3k mid top with a DIY kick? 
The 215 reaches the 10" of the evo really nicely, others can sound quite knocky and struggle to meet the 10" properly. I've never heard an HD15 I was impressed by.

Definitely do not drop the crossover of the 10" lower, F1's whole design philosophy is centred around getting as broad a freq response out of the axe-head, it's already at the limit.


Posted By: Besa
Date Posted: 23 September 2022 at 12:57pm
@teeth, @roadrunnersrust:
actually the 10" is crossed at 220Hz with f215 or with 15" in evo6e. on the back of the horn of evo6sh there is 170Hz as minimum crossover indication. probably I won't broke them playing lower than 220Hz but they sound bad. 
but,
Res3SH actually use the same 10" despite of the 1" driver that is smaller compared to the 1.4" of the evo6sh. 
if you try to go to crossover settings of evo6sh on Funktion one website it will auto-redirect you on res3sh page, in wich 10" is crossed HPF 173Hz, that's lower enough to meet hd15 without eccessive honkyness and staying safe until I'll buy/build other enclosure. 

Why I want to build other plans over buying f215mk2?
FIRST
Because there's lack of f215 in Europe. lot of 218 and 221 but no 215. I can find evo7EL that @toastygost link on Facebook marketplace but the guy ask 7900€ for evo7EL + evo7EH and I think it is too much. 

SECOND
Especially (and that's MY theory) because let mid/high sounding good it's more difficult than bass because of the shorter wavelengths of the frequency of mid high. There is less margin of error causing phase issues and resonance. 
Bass frequency is a different manner, it's easy to measure interaction of wave (e.g. cardioid) to manipulate them accurately. 
In fact, you can build a decent reflex 18" and you could putting in that a lot of 18" woofers and you even get good sound. 
Try to do the same with the evo6 Chinese copy, their driver suck...
Reading the forum there are people who have tried also e.g. f2b claim that they sound better compared to F215. The problems are its weight and its high build capacity requirement. I think I can build better cab than f215 or I can reach the same quality with less money.

Returning in topic.
Then we can assume that HD15 is an all-round bass bin designed to be used, in groups, for music that don't require subs, more than a midbass bin, especially if loaded with PD154 that is a strong woofer (high MS & BL) suited more to bass duty.
This is caused by its bandpass design that allow only a narrow band to be strongly reproduced with decent quality. 
In the next two weeks I will do the tests on my own and I will share the results, trying to compare also the arraying of 6x hd15 in different ways, that's an argument never discussed in depth on the forum.


Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 23 September 2022 at 1:48pm
Make absolutely sure that is a “minimum crossover” figure and not the usual “frequency response” figure Fk1 put on the backs of their cabinets. They’re two very different things. I’d also not set much faith in an erroneous link on a website that is hardly the best written in the world… 
https://www.funktion-one.com/crossover-settings/evo-6/" rel="nofollow - https://www.funktion-one.com/crossover-settings/evo-6/
Looks like it’s a fairly constant 220Hz HPF for that 10” to me.
I’m sure it’s an identical driver and horn as the RES3SH, I can’t imagine why they would do any R&D to improve a design and release it under a new model name Embarrassed

Lots of people go on about how great the F2B is yet you very rarely see people using them (in contrast to a *lot* of people running BPH, especially old Turbo kit and Funktion). Be wary of the opinion of people on the internet building their imaginary sound system or those with rose-tinted hearing aids. Having heard both, I would take a TSE-215 every day of the week to run underneath a Funktion MH if I had no other choices.

Yes, it’s harder to get a mid frequency horn to sound good due to the shorter wavelengths being more prone to geometry flaws creating issues. Bass is easier to design for but that is not the same thing as it being “easy” to design. Plenty of people have made truly awful sounding bass bins.

As for the HD15, it’s not even an all-round bass bin since it can’t do either end of the bass range properly. It’s just a not very good attempt at a TSE-115. Rog set about to do something ‘equivalent’ to a Turbo box without directly ripping off the turbo box. The fatal issue with that is in order to get the balance of chamber volumes plus the correct horn geometry to reach up without bonking requires something very similar to the Turbo box. After that it’s a matter of selecting the right driver, which is less than straight forward.

There’s plenty of posts about arraying bass bins, including BPHs on here? I’m not sure what difference you think you will perceive other than making the issues at the top and bottom of a HD15s response worse, as pretty much all of the bass arraying techniques revolve around compromising output in exchange for dispersion control. The first thing to start suffering is top end response (due to the wavelength issue, same as above) which isn’t something a HD15 can really stand to have compromised much further before it becomes a one-note box.

Quote
I think I can build better cab than f215 or I can reach the same quality with less money.
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


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Posted By: Besa
Date Posted: 23 September 2022 at 9:53pm
you need to look at evo6sh not evo6e. evo6sh is the skeletal one https://www.funktion-one.com/products/evo-6sh-skeletal/" rel="nofollow - https://www.funktion-one.com/products/evo-6sh-skeletal/ . res3sh also called res3sh EVO, it has the same 10", like the complete version res3 & res3mk2. 
Their R&D adjust the x-over and delay for sure, but I suppose the driver must be the same
I forgot to say that f2b can be a one bass solution for small venue instead of f215 that can't drop as low as f2b. 

Plenty of people have made truly awful sounding bass bins. 
LOL, that's true. But there's also plenty of good project and if you have CNC and a pair of good old hands you can do miracles. 

probably I understood noting about dispersion and arraying, and when I search on here I found nothing interesting, may I have used wrong qwery in the research. 

finally, you should avoid teasing me. you can reach better quality, or high spl, or lower weight/dimensions, at a lower price. The difficult is getting all of 3. 
What do you think about new generation neo driver and those hybrid reflex/horn/bandpass? 
the problem with horns is that you need at least 4 (or 2 double) to get proper sound, so it is not so scalable


Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 23 September 2022 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by Besa Besa wrote:

you need to look at evo6sh not evo6e.

No. Like I said, don’t take an erroneous link on a website for gospel. If you scroll down the link I provided you will see EVO6EH/EVO6SH (functionally/acoustically the same ‘cabinet’) listed with the HPF of the 10” at 220Hz.

Quote res3sh also called res3sh EVO, it has the same 10", like the complete version res3 & res3mk2. 
Their R&D adjust the x-over and delay for sure, but I suppose the driver must be the same
LOL

None of those model numbers are EVO6SH, “I suppose” is an impressively shakey bit of ground to base that assumption on when you apparently don’t understand how many minute and seemingly insignificant changes could be made which would drastically alter the safe cutoff point for that mid-horn and driver.

Unless you’ve got some inside info on what Fk1 were getting up to in their R&D department that lets you say they are identical for certain beyond wild speculation of nuggets on the internet?

Quote I forgot to say that f2b can be a one bass solution for small venue instead of f215 that can't drop as low as f2b.

Is that based off of spec sheets or real hands-on experience with the cabinets? Because F2B are no more a one bass solution than equivalent cubic footage of F215 IME. (Regardless of the fact you’d have to be a maniac to use a 215 instead of a 121 in that situation).

Quote there's also plenty of good project and if you have CNC and a pair of good old hands you can do miracles.

I’m not sure what CNC has to do with it? If you’re under the apprehension that a CNC cut cabinet is some panacea for high quality speakers, that’s just simply not true. Lots of people have discovered this the hard way. CNC routers are about production speed and repeatability, nothing more.

Quote probably I understood noting about dispersion and arraying, and when I search on here I found nothing interesting, may I have used wrong qwery in the research.

The search on here is like a chocolate teapot LOL It’s easier to use Google.

Quote finally, you should avoid teasing me.

After hearing/reading pretty much the exact same words from hundreds of people, it is truly still amusing to hear it again. I’ll eagerly await evidence of the exception to the rule though :)

Quote What do you think about new generation neo driver and those hybrid reflex/horn/bandpass?

There are a few modern Neo drivers that are quite interesting as they stand out from the rest that seem to pretty much be focused on catering to the “put this driver in a reflex box and feed it a million watts” market. It seems the market is full of high-strength motors and cones made heavier to be able to withstand that force without tearing, to the detriment of any other final metric beyond SPL/W. Thankfully there are still a few offerings that focus on making the cone as light and stiff as possible, then accelerating it as effectively as possible with the neo motor. Motors may be stronger than ever before but the rules of inertia haven’t changed considerably AFAIK LOL

I’ve still not heard a “new” design that doesn’t have serious transient response / punch issues. They invariably sound muddy and seem to rely on SPL to obscure the fact. When a drummer hits the kick drum I want to feel like I’ve been kicked in the gut, not like I’ve been assaulted by a giant marshmallow.


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Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 24 September 2022 at 12:43am
All you need Martin 215mk3 goes from 40-50 to 250hz maybe more , there’s just nuff kgs to lift . This is a design that Martin will not come after you , but with the price of ply now I would buy some used stuff , I take you are in uk so you have never heard the other 215’s or 115 from the rest of Europe? Funny every time we talk about cabs people only mentioning uk stuff , jump out of that uk box , nuff said . No pm’s please, keep it on here , in  two days I and maybe one or two others will let you know about stuff you never hear , back in 2002 I asked about Powersoft, it was bla bla bla , cause nobody was really using them in uk, that should give you an idea.
 Roadrunner nuff points on your write , 👍🏿


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Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk


Posted By: teeth
Date Posted: 13 October 2022 at 7:01pm
while we're here and measuring, do we have a "definitive" measurement for delay yet... all i've seen is some numbers being thrown about, without any particular measurements to back it up


Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 13 October 2022 at 7:28pm
There’s no such thing, it depends on the cabinets above and below them *and* their phase relationship, not to mention the physical alignment, build of the cabinets, driver choice. Etc.

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Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 14 October 2022 at 4:16pm
Not only what RoadRunnersDust said, but it will also depend on the electrical crossover used as eack one will have its own phase (& thus group delay) characteristics. 


Posted By: teeth
Date Posted: 17 October 2022 at 11:06am
that's very interesting, i didn't know that roadrunner.

i will have to read up on taking measurements, looks like this is something i need to do myself :)



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