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Generator for outdoor speaker running

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Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 10:54am
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Topic: Generator for outdoor speaker running
Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Subject: Generator for outdoor speaker running
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 9:40am
I am looking for a generator to power my amplifiers and decks for small outdoor events in the future that are capable of putting in a van and that will be powerful enough to have around 8 - 10   240v sockets powered by it

Can anyone recommend any or post any links to ones please .

Thanks
J



Replies:
Posted By: monkeypuzzle
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 10:34am
Okay, 8 - 10 sockets it pretty vague, 10 x 13 amp sockets is 130 amps so you’re looking at quite a big set there, you’d struggle to get the in and out of a van. 

Generators are measured in output power in Kva. This is basically a total of the maximum power draw of all the things you going to plug in to it plus a good amount of headroom. However, if you have 6k of rig it will never pull 6k and can be run on less although many will advise against. Don’t even entertain the idea of a petrol set. Diesel generators are much more stable and the idea of filling a HOT petrol set half way through a gig whilst slightly drunk is a recipe for a trip to the burns unit.

To really help we need to know what’s actually going to be plugged in and we can take it from there.


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blah blah blah blah blah......


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by monkeypuzzle monkeypuzzle wrote:

Okay, 8 - 10 sockets it pretty vague, 10 x 13 amp sockets is 130 amps so you’re looking at quite a big set there, you’d struggle to get the in and out of a van. 

Generators are measured in output power in Kva. This is basically a total of the maximum power draw of all the things you going to plug in to it plus a good amount of headroom. However, if you have 6k of rig it will never pull 6k and can be run on less although many will advise against. Don’t even entertain the idea of a petrol set. Diesel generators are much more stable and the idea of filling a HOT petrol set half way through a gig whilst slightly drunk is a recipe for a trip to the burns unit.

To really help we need to know what’s actually going to be plugged in and we can take it from there.


Hi, thanks for quick response, so the things that will be plugged in 

2 x pioneer CDJ2000Nexus Decks 
1 x Pioneer DJM900Nexus Mixer

2 x  amplifiers (for bass & mid tops)
1 x amplifier crossover 

2 x active DJ monitor speakers

4 x eurolite 12led bar (lighting) 

12 sockets total

I am guessing that I will need to plug these in via two adapters then into the generator 


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 1:21pm
I am guessing it would also need to be a ' silent generator ' 

https://www.industry-supplies.co.uk/product/ford-fd6700s-silent-diesel-generator-copy/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb75BRD1ARIsAP6LcqvVxThVjmNkJevWko9eKCp_hdeZCsz_U9TnPfROsNaGAEUJe4bYvusaAiSTEALw_wcB#fo_c=2498&fo_k=3bc0c45f26838d165ceb3ecec20de32c&fo_s=gplauk" rel="nofollow - https://www.industry-supplies.co.uk/product/ford-fd6700s-silent-diesel-generator-copy/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb75BRD1ARIsAP6LcqvVxThVjmNkJevWko9eKCp_hdeZCsz_U9TnPfROsNaGAEUJe4bYvusaAiSTEALw_wcB#fo_c=2498&fo_k=3bc0c45f26838d165ceb3ecec20de32c&fo_s=gplauk

something like this? although its quite heavy and a little big for transporting myself in the van, I only have a small ford transit connect van so ideally need a smaller generator 

What do you suggest 


Posted By: Jo bg
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 2:18pm
I would not use a small avr generatpr like this with simple voltage regulator , but look for one with inverter for the delicate and expensive electronics you have there.
I think a honda eu7000 would fit well if budget allows. Small stable and quiet.

If you don't need to squeeze the amplifiers a 3000 should be enough, but we don't know your amps and speakers.


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by jordanclarkdj jordanclarkdj wrote:

so the things that will be plugged in 

2 x pioneer CDJ2000Nexus Decks 
1 x Pioneer DJM900Nexus Mixer

2 x  amplifiers (for bass & mid tops)
1 x amplifier crossover 

2 x active DJ monitor speakers

4 x eurolite 12led bar (lighting) 

12 sockets total

I am guessing that I will need to plug these in via two adapters then into the generator 

That isn't anywhere close to 8-10 230v sockets worth of equipment.. might only be 1. What are the amplifiers and active speakers in question?

The rule of thumb for this is to add up the continuous power requirements of all small signal electronics and lighting.. which won't be much, and add the rated output of all amplifiers and powered speakers and get a generator capable of delivering that continuously..  not peak. And even at that there is a bit of headroom baked in as the examples below demonstrate.

A couple examples I have run. 
1. A pair of 1000w powered speakers(Yamaha DXR15), 4x 1m LED bars, small desktop mixer, Wireless mic, DJ console(DDJ SX) and laptop from a 2000w inverter generator.

2.  2x  215+2 plus 2x 218 passive speakers, 6000w amp rack with LMS, desktop mixer, wireless mic, DDJ SZ, 2 laptops all on a 5500w commercial gasoline generator(non inverter) for a parade float, only a couple hours run time so refueling not a concern.


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by jordanclarkdj jordanclarkdj wrote:

Originally posted by monkeypuzzle monkeypuzzle wrote:

Okay, 8 - 10 sockets it pretty vague, 10 x 13 amp sockets is 130 amps so you’re looking at quite a big set there, you’d struggle to get the in and out of a van. 

Generators are measured in output power in Kva. This is basically a total of the maximum power draw of all the things you going to plug in to it plus a good amount of headroom. However, if you have 6k of rig it will never pull 6k and can be run on less although many will advise against. Don’t even entertain the idea of a petrol set. Diesel generators are much more stable and the idea of filling a HOT petrol set half way through a gig whilst slightly drunk is a recipe for a trip to the burns unit.

To really help we need to know what’s actually going to be plugged in and we can take it from there.


Hi, thanks for quick response, so the things that will be plugged in 

2 x pioneer CDJ2000Nexus Decks 
1 x Pioneer DJM900Nexus Mixer

2 x  amplifiers (for bass & mid tops)
1 x amplifier crossover 

2 x active DJ monitor speakers

4 x eurolite 12led bar (lighting) 

12 sockets total

I am guessing that I will need to plug these in via two adapters then into the generator 



Ok - the desks, lighting and crossover are really irrelevant. You could power those off a small petrol Honda, etc.

What draws the power are the amplifiers - and those could be 200W, or 20,000W, so you really need to give us more information, ie makes and models.




-------------
Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by jordanclarkdj jordanclarkdj wrote:

so the things that will be plugged in 

2 x pioneer CDJ2000Nexus Decks 
1 x Pioneer DJM900Nexus Mixer

2 x  amplifiers (for bass & mid tops)
1 x amplifier crossover 

2 x active DJ monitor speakers

4 x eurolite 12led bar (lighting) 

12 sockets total

I am guessing that I will need to plug these in via two adapters then into the generator 

That isn't anywhere close to 8-10 230v sockets worth of equipment.. might only be 1. What are the amplifiers and active speakers in question?

The rule of thumb for this is to add up the continuous power requirements of all small signal electronics and lighting.. which won't be much, and add the rated output of all amplifiers and powered speakers and get a generator capable of delivering that continuously..  not peak. And even at that there is a bit of headroom baked in as the examples below demonstrate.

A couple examples I have run. 
1. A pair of 1000w powered speakers(Yamaha DXR15), 4x 1m LED bars, small desktop mixer, Wireless mic, DJ console(DDJ SX) and laptop from a 2000w inverter generator.

2.  2x  215+2 plus 2x 218 passive speakers, 6000w amp rack with LMS, desktop mixer, wireless mic, DDJ SZ, 2 laptops all on a 5500w commercial gasoline generator(non inverter) for a parade float, only a couple hours run time so refueling not a concern.

so the amplifiers I have are

Behringer EP4000 (2 channel mixer )
Behringer KM1700 (2 channel mixer ) 

The active DJ monitors are a cheap make from Ebay called ' KAM ' they are 15inch and im sure only around 800watt 


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 10:02pm
Someone said to me 

6.5 KVA with a built in regulator is what i needed?


Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 10:03pm
a little 6kva 'wheel barrow' diesel set will power your system no problem. Can get a reputable used one for £600-1000.


-------------
''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it''

''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 mk2_ginger_biscuit69 wrote:

a little 6kva 'wheel barrow' diesel set will power your system no problem. Can get a reputable used one for £600-1000.

Can you post a photo of how they look or even any links to ones that would do the job. Thank you :) 


Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by jordanclarkdj jordanclarkdj wrote:

Originally posted by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 mk2_ginger_biscuit69 wrote:

a little 6kva 'wheel barrow' diesel set will power your system no problem. Can get a reputable used one for £600-1000.

Can you post a photo of how they look or even any links to ones that would do the job. Thank you :) 



something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-silent-diesel-generator-6kva-yanmar-110-240v/293629406686?hash=item445dad2dde%3Ag%3AcyQAAOSwOyNeut1N&LH_ItemCondition=3000" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-silent-diesel-generator-6kva-yanmar-110-240v/293629406686?hash=item445dad2dde%3Ag%3AcyQAAOSwOyNeut1N&LH_ItemCondition=3000

easy enough to move around on your own, long as your van has a ramp to roll up/down.

Avoid Kipor brand, cheap knockoff of real brands, alright for occasional use but nothing to rely on, very unreliable.




-------------
''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it''

''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 mk2_ginger_biscuit69 wrote:

Originally posted by jordanclarkdj jordanclarkdj wrote:

Originally posted by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 mk2_ginger_biscuit69 wrote:

a little 6kva 'wheel barrow' diesel set will power your system no problem. Can get a reputable used one for £600-1000.

Can you post a photo of how they look or even any links to ones that would do the job. Thank you :) 



something like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-silent-diesel-generator-6kva-yanmar-110-240v/293629406686?hash=item445dad2dde%3Ag%3AcyQAAOSwOyNeut1N&LH_ItemCondition=3000" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-silent-diesel-generator-6kva-yanmar-110-240v/293629406686?hash=item445dad2dde%3Ag%3AcyQAAOSwOyNeut1N&LH_ItemCondition=3000

easy enough to move around on your own, long as your van has a ramp to roll up/down.

Avoid Kipor brand, cheap knockoff of real brands, alright for occasional use but nothing to rely on, very unreliable. 



Do you have any links to any websites other than Ebay for these ? 

I seen small honda powered ones that look like they can be carried by hand, I take it they are no use (not powerful enough) ? 


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by jordanclarkdj jordanclarkdj wrote:

so the amplifiers I have are

Behringer EP4000 (2 channel mixer )
Behringer KM1700 (2 channel mixer ) 

The active DJ monitors are a cheap make from Ebay called ' KAM ' they are 15inch and im sure only around 800watt 

What event duration do you need to cover... just a few hours or all night? You could run that on a 4500-5000w gas genset but if you need more than 5-6 hrs run time a diesel would be the better choice. 


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by jordanclarkdj jordanclarkdj wrote:

so the amplifiers I have are

Behringer EP4000 (2 channel mixer )
Behringer KM1700 (2 channel mixer ) 

The active DJ monitors are a cheap make from Ebay called ' KAM ' they are 15inch and im sure only around 800watt 

What event duration do you need to cover... just a few hours or all night? You could run that on a 4500-5000w gas genset but if you need more than 5-6 hrs run time a diesel would be the better choice. 

5-6 hours run time should be fine to be honest. 

(can you re fill with diesel while running worse case scenario that you think you may be running low)


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by jordanclarkdj jordanclarkdj wrote:

I seen small honda powered ones that look like they can be carried by hand, I take it they are no use (not powerful enough) ? 
Honda, Yamaha and a bunch of others make small to medium sized inverter generators(up to 7kw) that would do the job if you don't need extended run time, the larger versions are pretty heavy though up around 250lbs.


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 11:55pm
No generator should be refueled while running... same as any piece of machinery. 


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 12:11am
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

No generator should be refueled while running... same as any piece of machinery. 

https://www.generators-direct.co.uk/silent-and-diesel-generators/senci-sc8000c-open-frame-diesel-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb75BRD1ARIsAP6LcquLI0wbpEJGSk1u_FBQTkbm4PZF9lWlV4igXgqU3r8uANJ5Qo2U4ckaAoj3EALw_wcB" rel="nofollow - https://www.generators-direct.co.uk/silent-and-diesel-generators/senci-sc8000c-open-frame-diesel-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjwvb75BRD1ARIsAP6LcquLI0wbpEJGSk1u_FBQTkbm4PZF9lWlV4igXgqU3r8uANJ5Qo2U4ckaAoj3EALw_wcB



would this be fine ?


Posted By: osse
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 10:35am
I've been running petrol gen sets for outdoor parties refueling them drunk while running, for over 10 years. Sometimes it's kinda scary but never any problem even spilling a lot of fuel on it. Take it for what it's worth I would not recommend it but I'm alive and well.

I've used both inverters and cheap Chinese non inverted ones with pioneer cdjs, non inverted ones work well with iron amps and my smps JBL eon tops but not sure how they would work with big smps amps.

Kipor inverter gen sets has worked fine for me


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 1:53pm
Yeah you are quite lucky then mate....the exhaust on a small engine that's been running for hours, is usually hotter than the flash point of petrol! 
It's a little safer with diesel, as the flash point is that much higher. Still not a great idea.

In general diesel gensets are better, as the flywheel is heavier and so the RPM is more stable. Petrol sets run faster, with a smaller flywheel, and can more easily overspeed (producing abnormally high voltage and frequency) if a large electrical load suddenly drops off. 
EG absolute worst case scenario is a cascade failure: you blow your bass bins - the bass amp load drops off - the genny overspeeds - voltage goes to 300V+ for a second - this blows up your DJ gear - party over.
That's why it's considered best practice to have at least 1kVa, preferably more, "spare" capacity in the genset compared to what you need. You can then use a 500 watt floodlight as a constant load, to help keep the speed level. 


-------------
Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 2:14pm
All of the better commercial gensets (gas or diesel) have automatic voltage regulation so that is something to look for. I have run the larger parade system mentioned above which includes smps amplifiers on commercial non inverter generators for the last few years with no issues. 


Posted By: jordanclarkdj
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 5:34pm
Based on what you have said above 

I think I need to try and source myself some a 

6.5 KVA with a built in regulator  (diesel)  and I should be fine with no troubles then 


Just need to source some for reasonable value, 

Appreciate all your help 


Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 9:34pm
theres lots out there, and i linked you to the kind of sized unit i would recommend. Whilst shite like Kipor are everywhere and cheap, i can't recommend them. Up to you if you listen to that or chance it. Likewise, if you find something 'lightweight & portable', whilst it may work, for a time, its your risk.

depends whether you're providing a professional service, a budget disco, or a free party suicide rig.


-------------
''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it''

''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''


Posted By: Meat Substitute
Date Posted: 11 August 2020 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

Yeah you are quite lucky then mate....the exhaust on a small engine that's been running for hours, is usually hotter than the flash point of petrol! 
It's a little safer with diesel, as the flash point is that much higher. Still not a great idea.


Flash point isn't when it goes bang, you're thinking autoignition temperature. Both pretty important in terms of risk assessment but autoignition temp is the most important IMO.


Posted By: Jo bg
Date Posted: 12 August 2020 at 10:36am
I have used big ones non inverter too with condfidence, but if the load is near the genset capacity wouldn't inverter be better in case of sudden load change as in the bass bin failure scenario?
That has been my school of thoughts, but i have expensive electronics that i want to protect


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 13 August 2020 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Meat Substitute Meat Substitute wrote:

Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

Yeah you are quite lucky then mate....the exhaust on a small engine that's been running for hours, is usually hotter than the flash point of petrol! 
It's a little safer with diesel, as the flash point is that much higher. Still not a great idea.


Flash point isn't when it goes bang, you're thinking autoignition temperature. Both pretty important in terms of risk assessment but autoignition temp is the most important IMO.


https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/109407/why-is-the-auto-ignition-temperature-of-petrol-higher-than-that-of-diesel" rel="nofollow - https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/109407/why-is-the-auto-ignition-temperature-of-petrol-higher-than-that-of-diesel

always assumed it was the other way round. they are in the same ballpark though.

the flashpoint of petrol is below ambient temperature whereas diesel is well above - so just having petrol on site is a significantly greater risk, even if people aren't pouring it over hot generators.


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 14 August 2020 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by Meat Substitute Meat Substitute wrote:

Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

Yeah you are quite lucky then mate....the exhaust on a small engine that's been running for hours, is usually hotter than the flash point of petrol! 
It's a little safer with diesel, as the flash point is that much higher. Still not a great idea.


Flash point isn't when it goes bang, you're thinking autoignition temperature. Both pretty important in terms of risk assessment but autoignition temp is the most important IMO.

If the guy filling it has a lit roll-up dangling, as is often the case, the two are pretty interchangeable ;)


-------------
Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: mike_n
Date Posted: 18 August 2020 at 6:24pm
A setup that we use to power temporary / portable  RF and microwave installations might work for you. We use Honda EU6500is and EU2000i inverter generators but similar from Yamaha, Kawasaki, Yanmar or Subarau (aka Robin) could do the job.
For the larger sites we use a pair of EU6500is with around 4.8kw load on each as they are only rated for 5.5kw. Despite the 6500is model number, 6.5kw is a max rating and they will overheat and shutdown if run with a continuous load approaching that max rating. Apart from nice clean stable power that you get from the inverter a big advantage is that they can be run at partial throttle ("ECO throttle") saving fuel and reducing noise if not fully loaded and will throttle up as demand increases. We get anywhere from 4.5 to 8 hours between refills running like this. These things are very quiet at around 60dB(A) with full load.They are heavy but wheels and fold up handles make them fairly easy to move around.
For smaller sites we use one or more EU20i with about 1.4kw on each. Continuous rating is 1.6kw and max rating is 2kw. These units also have the "ECO throttle" feature but add the ability to tie two units together with a special parallel cable for 3.2kw continuous capacity and 4kw max. Configured like this the output of both units is in phase as the inverters run in a master slave configuration. The bigger EU30is also have this feature but not the EU6500is.
You might find that a pair of EU30is running in parallel configuration is a better fit for you than say a single EU6500is. As far as noise goes the EU20i and EU6500is are very close running as single units but a pair of EU20i running at full load seem to be a little noisier than the single EU6500is.
We have been running these for quite a few years now and find them to be very reliable and much more cost effective than replacing cheaper "clones" more frequently. The only other point I would add is that they do need regular oil and filter changes every 100 hours of running. We do ours at 50 hours because we are often in hot and dusty conditions and we do run them continuously for several days with stops only to refuel and check oil levels. 
I have no affiliation with Honda, just passing on our experience with these generators. As others have mentioned, stay well clear of the "clones" especially the chinese diesels as they are noisey unreliable junk.
Cheers,
Mike



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