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Void V18-1000 vs B&C 18TBX100 in superscoop

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Scoops
Forum Description: One scoop or two ;-)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=105773
Printed Date: 23 May 2022 at 4:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Void V18-1000 vs B&C 18TBX100 in superscoop
Posted By: heavydub
Subject: Void V18-1000 vs B&C 18TBX100 in superscoop
Date Posted: 07 October 2020 at 9:37am
Hi to all SP members. A new member here.
I am building a 4 way sound system to play traditional foundation roots reggae but also modern reggae and digital dub. Sometimes I could play DnB too.

It's from a while that I'm reading and searching on SP forum. I would like to post here some screenshot I've collected that are specifically related to the subject of this thread. So I can show you what information I have already collected. Most of messages are from mr Levyte.
https://ibb.co/d4T94Pv -
https://ibb.co/V2Dzsy7 -
https://ibb.co/5645DwY -
https://ibb.co/16N6MSX -
https://ibb.co/Ph6nLKk -
https://ibb.co/StjtDj8 -
https://ibb.co/CBdcVW0 -
https://ibb.co/s9PYrwn -
https://imgbb.com/ -

I'm still undecided between Void v18-1000 and B&C 18tbx100. I am building 4x classic 18 mogale superscooper and I have to choice one driver to load them.

In particular I'm interested in opinions for each of this subject:

  • SPL (from comments around SP it looks like Void wins)
  • MUSICALITY (to me it's very important. I like the "dirty" sound of scoops, that wrap your body. But I also wants B-line to be very clear so that you can hear every bass note, not only in the upper bass but also in sub)
  • DEPTH what low frequencies can those driver reproduce with energy? I've read a message by Mr. Levyte on SP in wich he says something like "I would never HPF scoops to 30HZ cause I like them working at the end of night". So you cross them at 35? Very low notes are very important to me. As I stated, I would play traditional foundation roots reggae but also lot's of modern roots and digital dub.
  • DURABILITY it looks like 18tbx100 it's not very strong. Is it true? Is void known to be stronger?
  • PRICE Void costs about 110€ more than B&C according to best prices I could find in EU stores. Is there any quality reason behind this difference? 18tbx100 price is very attractive.
  • ...MORE If you think there's more to consider, please let me knkow.





Replies:
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 07 October 2020 at 12:40pm
Would suggest for your purposes,

Build these Scoops, kindly provided by Mykey:

https://forum.speakerplans.com/fane-scaled-up_topic74640.html" rel="nofollow - https://forum.speakerplans.com/fane-scaled-up_topic74640.html

Will work with large number of the best Scoop drivers.

Especially original version PD1850


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 07 October 2020 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Would suggest for your purposes,

Build these Scoops, kindly provided by Mykey:

https://forum.speakerplans.com/fane-scaled-up_topic74640. - https://forum.speakerplans.com/fane-scaled-up_topic74640.html

Will work with large number of the best Scoop drivers.

Especially original version PD1850
Thanks for  your suggestion mr Levyte.

PD1850 is too expensive. Why did you suggest the mykey design over original mogale superscooper design? Any particular reason? Could you please provide additional information in the comparison between void and B&C drivers? I know you tested lot's of scoops design and drivers in the last years.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 07 October 2020 at 1:12pm
You can only get the PD1850 series 1 (Mk1 and Mk2) used now, they stopped making them years ago.

In UK, you can probably buy freshly reconed Series 1 PD1850s, for £280.

Suggest you forget all about the B&C 18TBX100 for your purposes, For years most Heavy Dub Sounds used PD1850s in Scoops similar to Mykeys.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 07 October 2020 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

You can only get the PD1850 series 1 (Mk1 and Mk2) used now, they stopped making them years ago.

In UK, you can probably buy freshly reconed Series 1 PD1850s, for £280.

Suggest you forget all about the B&C 18TBX100 for your purposes, For years most Heavy Dub Sounds used PD1850s in Scoops similar to Mykeys.
Precision Devices, as you said, stopped making PD 1850. I would avoid used drivers. And I would like to be able to recone my drivers, if needed, in next years. So I'm not considering PD.

Why sould I forget 18tbx100 for my purposes? What can't 18tbx100 specifically do? Be loud? Reproduce low ends?

Anyway, I could get Voids. Do they sound musical? It's very important to me.

Also, before build any design, I would like to know how the sound this design produces changes. Specifically: let's say we have 4X superscoop and 4x mykey scoop, everything Void v18-1000 loaded. What difference there should be between the two stacks?


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 08 October 2020 at 2:04pm
get the voids , i used the B N C in small chamber scoops , just sound very regular untill they buckled v1000 sounds amazing in small chamber cabs  

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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 08 October 2020 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by paulus paulus wrote:

get the voids , i used the B N C in small chamber scoops , just sound very regular untill they buckled v1000 sounds amazing in small chamber cabs  


If dude has mind made up on Superscoopers, Voids would be one of the top  drivers in it.

However I think more drivers would work well in the Mykey Scoop.

Voids in Mykey Scoop would be real loud, louder than PD1850, but just need "few measures", to ensure warmth.

Sure a few 18sounds drivers, will pound in Mykey Scoop as well.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Tweeter_Box
Date Posted: 09 October 2020 at 1:06pm
Void will be fine, its powerfull enough to work in most boxes without struggling

BUT

its easier to get recone kits for B&C from wat i remember

ALSO

youll likely be reconing B&C more oftem than Void if your playing hooligan dub !!


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https://www.facebook.com/PurpleAudioRecords


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 October 2020 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by Tweeter_Box Tweeter_Box wrote:

youll likely be reconing B&C more oftem than Void if your playing hooligan dub !!


"B&C 18TBX100 is the most blown driver in Southall"

Wonder who said that !!

LOL


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 09 October 2020 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Tweeter_Box Tweeter_Box wrote:

Void will be fine, its powerfull enough to work in most boxes without struggling

BUT

its easier to get recone kits for B&C from wat i remember

ALSO

youll likely be reconing B&C more oftem than Void if your playing hooligan dub !!
I have a friend that owns different kind of speakers from years. Not a sound system, I'm talking about 2 or 3 way audio systems mostly used for live events or techno dj set. He never reconed a driver in his entire life. He is very careful with limiters, clipping and he uses good quality amplifiers.

In SP I often read about the recone "problem". Why? I mean, why lot's of reggae/dub sound system owners, at a certain point needs to recone their driver? 
I can understand that modern digital dub it's very heavy on low frequencies.. but if you are carefull with limiters you should preserve drivers life. Am I wrong? Maybe I'm not considering something?


Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 09 October 2020 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by paulus paulus wrote:

get the voids , i used the B N C in small chamber scoops , just sound very regular untill they buckled v1000 sounds amazing in small chamber cabs  


If dude has mind made up on Superscoopers, Voids would be one of the top  drivers in it.

However I think more drivers would work well in the Mykey Scoop.

Voids in Mykey Scoop would be real loud, louder than PD1850, but just need "few measures", to ensure warmth.

Sure a few 18sounds drivers, will pound in Mykey Scoop as well.
"few measures"? are you talking about crossover points / eq?
and moreover: Which 18sound driver are you talking about?

Anyway, if so much people is happy with Void and superscooper, I think I could go with them. I just hope they will go low enougth. At what frequencies would you HPF 4xVoid in superscooper to find a good compromise between sub notes and overexcursion?
Thank you for your patience, I know I have lot's of questions


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 October 2020 at 3:50pm
Very important question, not mentioned.

What amplifier do you intend to power 4x Void V18-1000s with?


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 09 October 2020 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Very important question, not mentioned.

What amplifier do you intend to power 4x Void V18-1000s with?
Probably a labgruppen FP14000.
Or any decent amp that is able to feed around 2500w per channel @4ohm. This is what I've read around SP. 

If I'm not unpleasant, Could you please reply to my previous questions? Specially the about HPF. Sorry for asking again.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 October 2020 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by heavydub heavydub wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Very important question, not mentioned.

What amplifier do you intend to power 4x Void V18-1000s with?
Probably a labgruppen FP14000.
Or any decent amp that is able to feed around 2500w per channel @4ohm. This is what I've read around SP. 

If I'm not unpleasant, Could you please reply to my previous questions? Specially the about HPF. Sorry for asking again.


If I were you, I would not trust all manufacturers amplifier specs as truth.

90% of amplifier manufacturers these days, provide measurements taken  at 1khz.

For Reggae/Dub systems, Sub amplifier selection is critical.

Member here once stated  Crown Macrotech MA5000VZ, performed better on sub, than Lab Gruppen FP14000.

I would suggest:
  • Void Infinite 8MK2 or Powersoft X series.
  • 40hz/18db Butterworth HPF for 4x V18-1000 loaded Superscoops.
  • Add chamber wadding as suggested in Superscooper plans
Above are measures I was suggesting.




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Noyzmunky
Date Posted: 10 October 2020 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by heavydub heavydub wrote:

Maybe I'm not considering something?


Yeah, you're not considering getting a bit fresh with the EQ

You'll blow a couple of drivers your first few times out, or you're doing it wrong

You will need to learn where the limits of your rig are. You can burn out a coil easy as with that sort of music and a tiny bit of distortion and still be within your limiters..
Also 2.5k@4R is a bit light to run two drivers for heavy dub, not enough headroom. I would be wanting to have way more amp headroom, that's how you keep drivers happy. Have enough room to hit transients with authority. 2-2.5k a driver.... That's more like it.

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my name is Inigo Montoya...you killed my father, prepare to die!.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 10 October 2020 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Noyzmunky Noyzmunky wrote:

..
Also 2.5k@4R is a bit light to run two drivers for heavy dub, not enough headroom. I would be wanting to have way more amp headroom, that's how you keep drivers happy. Have enough room to hit transients with authority. 2-2.5k a driver.... That's more like it.


From what I've seen of many dub systems, people think they need huge amount of power per driver, because their sub amp/amps, are not delivering what it says on the tin, down to 40hz.

Void Infinite 8 MK2 will deliver exactly what spec says, and exceed it, given right conditions.

Have seen Void Infinite 8MK2 power 2x 8 ohm Turbomax 1500s per channel, which must be one of the most difficult loads on the planet.

I recommend the Void amp or Powersoft X series, because I have heard them deliver sub notes with quality and authority.

Have heard many lightwegiht amps rated at double power of the Void, and clipped before matching it's performance, on the same load/rig/power.





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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Sinai Sound
Date Posted: 10 October 2020 at 3:34pm
The best advice I can give, is wait until you have loaded your boxes

Then try a multitude of different amplifiers with your processing and music through your boxes to make a final decision


Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 11 October 2020 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Member here once stated  Crown Macrotech MA5000VZ, performed better on sub, than Lab Gruppen FP14000.

I would suggest:
  • Void Infinite 8MK2 or Powersoft X series.
  • 40hz/18db Butterworth HPF for 4x V18-1000 loaded Superscoops.
  • Add chamber wadding as suggested in Superscooper plans
Above are measures I was suggesting.

Yeah, I've read a lot in SP scoop forum about Void Infinite 8MK2 and Crown Macrothech MA5000VZ. I guess it would be great to get one of them. Unfortunately, as you already know, both of them are out of production; just finding a used one seems to be very difficoult. At least I've searched many times in the last period, without luck.

Also, I have to find a compromise between amp quality and costs. I'm not sayng I'll buy crap.
About Powersoft amps: I know, they are are great. But Their cost is too Cry

Luckly, in next months I have the possibility to test 4 scoops with some decent amp my friend owns, I'll let you know.

Thank you for other suggestions




Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 11 October 2020 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Noyzmunky Noyzmunky wrote:

Originally posted by heavydub heavydub wrote:

Maybe I'm not considering something?


Yeah, you're not considering getting a bit fresh with the EQ

You'll blow a couple of drivers your first few times out, or you're doing it wrong

You will need to learn where the limits of your rig are. You can burn out a coil easy as with that sort of music and a tiny bit of distortion and still be within your limiters..
Also 2.5k@4R is a bit light to run two drivers for heavy dub, not enough headroom. I would be wanting to have way more amp headroom, that's how you keep drivers happy. Have enough room to hit transients with authority. 2-2.5k a driver.... That's more like it.
I'll keep maximum attention on EQ. Also, i will try to get a big man amp to have enough headroom. Thank you for your tips.

I honestly hope I'll be able to avoid blowing stuffs. Also, as I was expecting and you confirmed, the kind of music (Dub) play an important rule in this topic.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 11 October 2020 at 2:50pm
Ken here in UK  is selling Void Inf8mk2.

Powersoft K20 Will power 6x V18-1000.

You would be surprised how well MA5000VZ, Crest CA18 will power 4x V18s.






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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 9:28am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Ken here in UK  is selling Void Inf8mk2.

Powersoft K20 Will power 6x V18-1000.

You would be surprised how well MA5000VZ, Crest CA18 will power 4x V18s.
Ken? Who is Ken?
Anyway, I totally understand the importance to have a good amp to drive 4 v18-1000. Unfortunately I can't afford the price of wood, drivers, cables, amp etc everything in few days. I will buy things month after month. Meanwhile I can test and play with new scoops thanks to my friends amplifiers.

I will consider void inf8mk2, powersoft, crest and crown. I will give a try to labgruppen too. 

I would ask the "ken" contact (if Ken is a guy lol), but as I told, I'm not going to buy an amplifier today. Anyway It would be nice to know the price, just to have an idea.


Posted By: knet94
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 3:22pm
Hi, I'm the Ken referred to by Lev. Currently downsizing and have at least one selling. Looking £1,000 for well looked after specimens.


Posted By: Sinai Sound
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by heavydub heavydub wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by paulus paulus wrote:

get the voids , i used the B N C in small chamber scoops , just sound very regular untill they buckled v1000 sounds amazing in small chamber cabs  


If dude has mind made up on Superscoopers, Voids would be one of the top  drivers in it.

However I think more drivers would work well in the Mykey Scoop.

Voids in Mykey Scoop would be real loud, louder than PD1850, but just need "few measures", to ensure warmth.

Sure a few 18sounds drivers, will pound in Mykey Scoop as well.
"few measures"? are you talking about crossover points / eq?
and moreover: Which 18sound driver are you talking about?

Anyway, if so much people is happy with Void and superscooper, I think I could go with them. I just hope they will go low enougth. At what frequencies would you HPF 4xVoid in superscooper to find a good compromise between sub notes and overexcursion?
Thank you for your patience, I know I have lot's of questions

Your HPF should never change, regardless of the amount of boxes you use

I'd set a super scoop to be 38hz 18db BW personally


Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 4:01pm
You will be absolute pleased with a LAB FP14000. 
Dont get blinded by what you read on here. 
LAB FP and PLM amps are just as good and more, compared to Powersoft and Void. 
They just cost alot more, so not many will spend the money on them.

But they are beasts.. No doubt about it. And more rider friendly Big smile



Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by knet94 knet94 wrote:

Hi, I'm the Ken referred to by Lev. Currently downsizing and have at least one selling. Looking £1,000 for well looked after specimens.
thank you Ken for the information!  As I told, I'm working hard on scoop bins now. In next months I'll find the best quality/price solution for the amp! 

Originally posted by Sinai Sound Sinai Sound wrote:


Your HPF should never change, regardless of the amount of boxes you use

I'd set a super scoop to be 38hz 18db BW personally
Thank you very much. I will experiment around hints all of you are giving to me Smile

Originally posted by FOO FOO wrote:

You will be absolute pleased with a LAB FP14000. 
Dont get blinded by what you read on here. 
LAB FP and PLM amps are just as good and more, compared to Powersoft and Void. 
They just cost alot more, so not many will spend the money on them.

But they are beasts.. No doubt about it. And more rider friendly Big smile

I could be wrong but from what I've seen, Powersoft X or K series are much expensive than Labgruppen FP. (if you consider specs-similar models of course).

I'll let you know my impressions with Labgruppen FP 140000 in next months.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 7:18pm
If someone here is after the smaller Infinite 7v2, i have one hear for sale in NL Smile


Posted By: heavydub
Date Posted: 03 July 2021 at 1:24am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

  • Add chamber wadding as suggested in Superscooper plans
Finally I started building superscoops. After few days of cutting and thinking I have a question: the superscoop plan says that you have to use 5cm of polyester fibre in the panel back to the driver. But doing this will result in the void driver that touch and "press" the fibre. Is this normal and safe or am I missing something? 


Posted By: MartinKanan
Date Posted: 06 October 2021 at 6:28pm
Is there anybody who have specs on v18-1000640 im curious to see if u can use it in a scoop the component is made for a 640 parafæex cabinet but some People say that it has better motor and better cooling ..

Please reply any information is gladly recieved
Kind regards
Martin Kanan



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