BMS vs Celestion
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: General
Forum Name: General Forum
Forum Description: Open Discussion / Questions
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=105786
Printed Date: 20 April 2024 at 2:57am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: BMS vs Celestion
Posted By: Cheekybox
Subject: BMS vs Celestion
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 9:54pm
|
Mounted on a 90x40 horn, does anyone have an opinion on the BMS 4590 vs the Celestion Axi 2050? It would not be played too low, i think in the region of 500 Cheers
|
Replies:
Posted By: Cheekybox
Date Posted: 13 October 2020 at 6:34pm
| Really struggling to find any info on the celestion. |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 13 October 2020 at 7:06pm
|
The celestion is a highly expensive unit, I'm not aware of it making its way into many boxes yet. I suspect from looking at the data sheets it will perform very well. Ive used and built with BMS 4592 and they are highly capable with corrective EQ. The lowest I've run them is 680Hz. ------------- “The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better” |
Posted By: kipman725
Date Posted: 14 October 2020 at 2:49pm
|
loads of information here: https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/high-quality-horn-loudspeaker-systems-by-bj%C3%B8rn-kolbrek-and-thomas-dunker-p-3317.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/high-quality-horn-loudspeaker-systems-by-bj%C3%B8rn-kolbrek-and-thomas-dunker-p-3317.html Also there at least used to be a special discount if you bought this book on the axi2050. The driver has a 5" diaphragm so low end performance is going to be great for a compression driver. Also if you search through this thread there are some presentations explaining the decoupling of the mechanical and acoustical modes which allow such a large diaphragm to extend high in frequency. |
Posted By: APC321
Date Posted: 14 October 2020 at 3:57pm
|
Checked out the link..looks like an interesting book. But £122. That's more expensive than any book I have ever bought. |
Posted By: kipman725
Date Posted: 14 October 2020 at 4:24pm
|
ah sorry the link didn't appear, this is the thread I was referring to: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/294553-celestion-axiperiodic-driver.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/294553-celestion-axiperiodic-driver.html |
Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 14 October 2020 at 5:23pm
|
every octave you decrease the horn cutoff frequency you reduce the power that can go through the throat for a given distortion level by a factor of four. 300Hz is two octaves below 1.2kHz so 16 times less. increasing the throat area by using a 2" instead of a 1.4" only gets you back to 8 times less power limit. you need multiple bands with appropriate horn loading to get loud and clean - not sure I understand what this celestion driver is for. trying to get more than four octaves out of one driver is just running up against the laws of physics. |
Posted By: kipman725
Date Posted: 14 October 2020 at 5:38pm
|
If you look at the classic M200 with 2" throat distortion is still good down to 400Hz: https://www.communitypro.com/sites/default/files/M200.PDF" rel="nofollow - https://www.communitypro.com/sites/default/files/M200.PDF Going to the larger throat M4 (4") the distortion is not rising till below 200 Hz: https://www.communitypro.com/sites/default/files/M4.PDF" rel="nofollow - https://www.communitypro.com/sites/default/files/M4.PDF |
Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 14 October 2020 at 6:44pm
the throat distortion is at the high frequencies. Looks pretty much exactly what my chart in Olson predicts. 10% distortion at 10*cutoff at 1 acoustic watt per cm2 of throat. Community recommends both drivers are used over three octaves. |
kipman725 wrote:Posted By: kipman725
Date Posted: 14 October 2020 at 11:28pm
|
So to me this seems more an argument about horn design than compression driver design as your talking about the flare rate limitations required for low frequency loading? In the axi2050 the phase plug is at the throat unlike say an JBL 2461 where there is a section of horn incorporated into the driver before the throat. Obliviously the phase plug still has an internal horn expansion that would have a flare rate but I wonder if (as such drivers didn't exist in that time) that charts from Olson are predictive for such a driver? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UDNlKuScZM" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UDNlKuScZM Personally I would like to see better data in general from compression driver manufacturers as its pretty difficult to make an educated choice from the limited data provided, at least something like this would be much better: ftp://ftp.renkus-heinz.com/Legacy_Products/Datasheets_and_Drawings/Classic_RH_Drivers/SSD3301_data.pdf" rel="nofollow - ftp://ftp.renkus-heinz.com/Legacy_Products/Datasheets_and_Drawings/Classic_RH_Drivers/SSD3301_data.pdf
|
Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 14 October 2020 at 11:41pm
compression drivers have been good enough for several decades that the limiting factor is the horn. no matter what they do in the driver exit it is still going through a throat that either loads the driver at low frequencies and distorts HF at high volume, or doesn't load at low frequencies and throws away the extra bandwidth the driver is capable of. |
Posted By: Cheekybox
Date Posted: 15 October 2020 at 3:00pm
|
Have you seen the horn this was designed for? https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/celestion-lh9045r-2-90-x-45-wide-bandwith-horn-p-3318.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/celestion-lh9045r-2-90-x-45-wide-bandwith-horn-p-3318.html |
Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 15 October 2020 at 4:47pm
| a grand for the driver and a grand for the horn - yikes! |
Posted By: citizensc
Date Posted: 17 October 2020 at 10:32am
|
That's out of my price range for sure... who is that horn marketed to? I would never spend that kind of money on a horn flare as a DIY sound system guy. I would rather build something my self. In other news B&C have released their new gigantic horn for the DCX464, no idea how much it costs but its plastic and its b&c so I can only assume its less than 1000 pounds. https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/horn/1-4/0/ME464" rel="nofollow - https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/horn/1-4/0/ME464
|
Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 17 October 2020 at 12:23pm
| The B&C ME464 costs roughly the same as the DCX464, so that is not a cheap one either. |
Posted By: IanD
Date Posted: 17 October 2020 at 3:07pm
Huge horn, huge price... Mind you, £950 for the horn is only the same as the driver -- so I don't know where this "half the price of the BMS" came from...
|
Posted By: BJtheDJ
Date Posted: 17 October 2020 at 4:01pm
Blue Aran have them on order. http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BACME464" rel="nofollow - http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BACME464 Cut n paste from that page: £507.76 £423.13 ex VAT
------------- It's a difficult choice, would you rather have: A: A vegan son. B: An OnlyFans daughter |
||||||||
Posted By: Cheekybox
Date Posted: 18 October 2020 at 1:20am
|
Thanks to everyone for posting. Seems folks are unsure either because of the price, or, the fact no one has heard this driver. I am still intrigued to know whether the performance of the celestion justifies the high cost over the BMS. Hunt is on to try and find one to hear!
|
Posted By: citizensc
Date Posted: 18 October 2020 at 1:54am
| Out of curiosity is there any reason you are not considering the DCX464? |
Posted By: Cheekybox
Date Posted: 19 October 2020 at 1:53pm
| I've got one of the large horns so im interested in the driver it was designed for. As i am using the 4590 on this horn i'd like to know how the celestion would compare. The b&c looks fine but i want to learn about one particular option rather than any alternative option. |