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Thomann TSA 4-1300

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Category: General
Forum Name: Amp Forum
Forum Description: The 'Stopping Jake Fielder moaning constantly' forum description...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=106080
Printed Date: 30 September 2022 at 1:31pm
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Topic: Thomann TSA 4-1300
Posted By: boots-hifi
Subject: Thomann TSA 4-1300
Date Posted: 14 February 2021 at 8:39pm
Does anyone have pcb diagrams for the amplifier? I bought one in 2017 since then its failed twice with supply problems. Both times I've sent it back thomann have replaced it under warranty - great. This time it's out of warranty although the amp was replaced less than 18 months ago Thomann won't cover the repair and have advised me to use a local repair man. I've got the amplifier with my dad who is more than capable however we can not find pcb diagrams anywhere. Can any one help before it becomes a door stop. 



Replies:
Posted By: djeddie
Date Posted: 15 February 2021 at 6:45pm
Can't remember if it was on here, DiyAudio, or another forum, but I'm pretty sure it was said the TSA's were based on something else. In fact, almost a blatant rip-off of said other amp. If I can find (remember!) where it's written I'll post the link... unless someone more knowledgeable than myself chips in.


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Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.             E=mc² ±3dB


Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 15 February 2021 at 8:11pm
Nice one. I found something on a Polish site but I don't speak Polish to become a member to look at the diagrams. My dad has said the amps don't look like they've been designed to be serviced. He's identified the problematic area but without reverse engineering it, its gonna be difficult to pin point the exact problem. I've also emailed thomann, still waiting for a response. If you can find something it would be greatly appreciated. 


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 16 February 2021 at 5:42pm
I expect Thomann were just replacing the boards wholesale without doing any actual component level fixing. Your best bet might be to try and get them to sell you a replacement board, although with import charges from Europe that is still gonna cost ya.
<deleted rant about how much I hate trying to fix SMPS's!>


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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 16 February 2021 at 7:01pm
Ive purchased complete replacement boards for these at reasonable cost, that might be an option. On the charges front ( brexit), Thomann are not charging VAT on export (uk) sales, so you will only be paying one lot of VAT on import, with a hopefully minimal clearance charge.

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 16 February 2021 at 9:01pm
if the order is under £135 then the transaction goes through without further unexpected charges because the exporter adds the VAT at their end. Over that and the VAT and duty is added by the courier and charged to you in a seperate invoice. It's all on the thomann FAQ page



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Kevin

North Staffordshire



Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 18 February 2021 at 7:53am
Originally posted by kedwardsleisure kedwardsleisure wrote:

if the order is under £135 then the transaction goes through without further unexpected charges because the exporter adds the VAT at their end. Over that and the VAT and duty is added by the courier and charged to you in a seperate invoice. It's all on the thomann FAQ page


But it may not be as simple as that, I place an order with Thomann every couple of months, it is £174 + vat with free delivery, now Thomann have removed the vat I have heard a few FB stories of increased charging, so I phone them direct, they said with the courier sorting the vat, clearance fees and now charging for the delivery I could expect an invoice of about an extra £100, this is based on feed back from UK orders since Brexit.


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CNC Cabinets


Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 18 February 2021 at 8:51am
OK but the HMRC website is stating the £135 threshold is in force and came in on 1/1/21.

This is of course for private customers as Thomann is classed as a distance-selling retailer and they have a UK VAT number.

If you have a trade account with Thomann ( a B2B transaction) then the rules are different.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021" rel="nofollow - hmrc import vat threshold

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Kevin

North Staffordshire



Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 18 February 2021 at 10:18am
Originally posted by concept-10 concept-10 wrote:

Originally posted by kedwardsleisure kedwardsleisure wrote:

if the order is under £135 then the transaction goes through without further unexpected charges because the exporter adds the VAT at their end. Over that and the VAT and duty is added by the courier and charged to you in a seperate invoice. It's all on the thomann FAQ page


But it may not be as simple as that, I place an order with Thomann every couple of months, it is £174 + vat with free delivery, now Thomann have removed the vat I have heard a few FB stories of increased charging, so I phone them direct, they said with the courier sorting the vat, clearance fees and now charging for the delivery I could expect an invoice of about an extra £100, this is based on feed back from UK orders since Brexit.


I think over the £135 threshold it requires a customs declaration so there are extra costs for processing this.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 18 February 2021 at 10:20am
This is all sounding like a very good reason, not to touch them.

Are the Sanway 4x channels, any better, just on mids?


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 18 February 2021 at 11:10am
I pulled 2 of these along with a TSA4-300 out of a nightclub back in June, they had been there 4 years, were absolutely filthy, never cleaned or serviced and they did and still do work perfectly. For the cost, i’d say thats a win.

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 8:43am
Okay so I've had a reply from Thomann. After telling me to take the amplifier to a 'local repair guy' they told me no schematics were available for the amplifier. Thomann boast an extensive repair department? 

My Dad reverse engineered the Pcb and has now found the faulty components. The amplifier has been fixed, no help to Thomann. 

Everytime the amplifier has gone back a new one has been sent out, not repaired. I won't be using them again. Thomann would rather I spent another £450 on an amp. 


Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 10:31am
Originally posted by boots-hifi boots-hifi wrote:

.....
Everytime the amplifier has gone back a new one has been sent out, not repaired. I won't be using them again.....


Unfortunately this is the case for a lot of these cheap Chinese re-badged brands, they are disposable commodities with no service support or spares.

I stopped repairing this sort of kit about 10 years ago as it just wasn’t worth the effort but, I used to do the repairs for a small chain of music shops, amongst other brands, for a while they used to sell Berhinger, I never managed to get a single schematic or part out of them despite being a dealer.

Other makes were as bad, we had a Numark mixer in for repair that needed the faders replaced, the cost of a set of faders direct from Numark was the same as a new mixer and that’s before postage and my labour… I managed to source the components elsewhere for about 2 quid each.  

One exception was Wharfdale pro, the gear itself wasn’t that good or reliable but the service support was excellent, I’d phone the service department for schematics or parts , they would email me the schematics straight away and often send the parts out on a next day delivery often for free, even if the equipment was out of warranty.



Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 11:33am
Behringer have never given out their schematics. The technician for the main dealer here told me that years ago. They supply the dealers with some spares - and everything else has to go back to the main office in Germany. Odd, but true. They must have their reasons, I guess.    




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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 12:49pm
sure somebody might copy their products...


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 12:58pm
Yes - like they themselves have done with loads of product...   LOL




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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

Behringer have never given out their schematics. The technician for the main dealer here told me that years ago. They supply the dealers with some spares - and everything else has to go back to the main office in Germany. Odd, but true. They must have their reasons, I guess.    

I know... doesn’t mean it’s right though!!!

I have a few iNuke DSPs that get used on monitor duty or for smaller gigs when I can’t be arsed to roll out a rack of QSC’s, they are well out of warranty and if when they fail, they will be landfill as I’m in no doubt Behringer will not repair them being that they are now a legacy product!! When they do eventually fail (and they will!!) they may well be repairable however without service information it’s just not economical to do so.

I have in my lockup a few Crest V series amplifies and that are 25+ years old, I have schematics and all the parts are still available, I can keep these serviceable almost indefinitely…. And I can still repair old valve amps and industrial equipment that was made before I was born!!

Behringer’s justification for not releasing service info is that their equipment will be copied, this is rich considering that their early amps were blatant copies of QSC amplifiers.

Edit: I was typing when you posted above regarding coping!!



Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 1:24pm
Yes - the throwaway philosophy/culture is BS, I hate it too.

Most of my amps are also old school - mainly Crest as well - 7001 and 8001. They just keep giving!  LOL Clap LOL




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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 1:35pm
Here ya go - amp porn!!   LOL

The new cheapo crap can't compare to these!!  Smile







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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 1:35pm
Probably because if they released their schematics to non-NDA covered personnel, various patent lawyers would be VERY interested!

Your Dad is a top don by the way. Care to elaborate on what he found wrong and fixed? I bet it's a common fault, might even be the one that kills them all?


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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

Probably because if they released their schematics to non-NDA covered personnel, various patent lawyers would be VERY interested!


Clap

LOL…. This exactly the conclusion I came to as to why they never released the schematics!!




Posted By: aziz
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 5:20pm
Had a mackie profx8 in for repair recently,had it in before for a minor repair so I knew it’s a bit of a pain to work on but with nothing else happening,I said I’d would give it a shot.

One gain pot physically broken and two other dirty as well as a couple of diodes gone,

Went to order new pots from loud technologies and found that they don’t stock them anymore which is shit as the mixer is still a current product.

None of the standard component companies had a matching replacement so a long wait until Ali express came to the rescue 

Companies these days don’t make it easy 


Posted By: JonB67
Date Posted: 19 February 2021 at 7:26pm
Right to repair or guaranteed support for a fixed term or repairability ratings or some mix of the lot needs to come into force. The current "its tough, buy a new one" is not sustainable,  responsible or necessary really. Hopefully it will drive new economics models which will have knock on effects for design.

Wishful thinking, but lets hope...


Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 20 February 2021 at 12:13am
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

Right to repair or guaranteed support for a fixed term or repairability ratings or some mix of the lot needs to come into force. The current "its tough, buy a new one" is not sustainable,  responsible or necessary really. Hopefully it will drive new economics models which will have knock on effects for design.

Wishful thinking, but lets hope...

100% agree with this. For a company that should hopefully be sustainable and support climate change throwing a product away regardless of cost for a component worth pennies available from RS is ethically wrong. Why shouldn't products be maintained, as in previous years? Its all about greed and profiteering. To put things into perspective, it's a 4 channel £450 amplifier that serves a purpose. The fact that I've had 3 new amplifiers since 2017 from thomann (1 new, 2 new replacements) under very light use to describe as best doesn't bode well for the product or design. The fact the company will be prepared to send a brand new replacement amplifier out including shipping rather than replace a component in the pence which probably has become a known fault is ridiculous. As mentioned thomann can not be worried about the already copied design being copied. Its just the drive for greed and wealth that over rules any degree of rationality. 


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 20 February 2021 at 7:49am
Yes - like the proposal that the manufacturers of white goods be made responsible for recycling their products when they fail.

What is also needed is some sort of control over programmed obsolescence as well. One of my printers stopped working a while ago, because it was programmed to do so, not because of any fault. Absolutely ridiculous.  Ouch Dead Disapprove





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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: JonB67
Date Posted: 20 February 2021 at 7:52am
Dont suppose your dad could enlighten us on what he found and what he replaced? Any pics? 

Makes this a useful resource for people having the same problem as you.


Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 11 March 2022 at 6:36pm
Did anything re: component fix information ever get explained?

I agree with Jon, that would be a really useful resource given the discontinued nature of the 4-1300


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www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk


Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 07 April 2022 at 9:33am
Unfortunately it's now no more than a door stop. My Dad spent a lot of time trying to fix the amp, but without any detailed information from Thomanns 'service' department or schematics detailing components it became un viable. 


Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 07 April 2022 at 10:15am
That’s a shame :/

In fairness to Thomann, it’s an amplifier that they rebadged so I doubt they would have access to the schematics themselves even if they wanted them. I can’t recall which Far East vendor they came from but someone (I think on here) identified them once, possibly the same outfit that build the PL3000 for them.

Thomann *might* have had access to board-level spares but I would imagine their “repair” scheme consisted of sending back shipments of failed amplifiers for rework then using the reconditioned amplifiers or new units as warranty replacements. That seems to be a fairly common practice for Far East OEM’d equipment. (At least it’s better than recycling them into the landfill…) 


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