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Fane 2x12 Mid Horn

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Category: Plans
Forum Name: Other plans
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about all the other plans
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=106461
Printed Date: 20 May 2022 at 3:46pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Fane 2x12 Mid Horn
Posted By: Chris LDN
Subject: Fane 2x12 Mid Horn
Date Posted: 12 August 2021 at 2:57pm
Has anyone built, or heard the 2x12 mid horn, on pages 40-41, of the Fane "Loudspeaker Enclosure Design and Construction" book?

Link to the plan here:

http://hornplans.free.fr/2x12%20front%20horn%20loaded.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://hornplans.free.fr/2x12%20front%20horn%20loaded.jpg

Interested to hear what anyone thinks, if anyone's done any Hornresp simulations, if you've heard them, or built them?

Lots of dodgy angles though - might make the build difficult.



Replies:
Posted By: Chris LDN
Date Posted: 12 August 2021 at 2:59pm
Also, what drivers would people recommend, if I were to build some today?


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 12 August 2021 at 3:52pm
Old, old design.

Not sure of your desired resp range, but Would suggest MT121s, loaded with B&Cs, 18sound or PDs,  and they will do 160hz to 1200hz (with flattening eq), no problem.

2" above that, with large horn, for industrial strength tops, that can cover 2000ppl, inside or out, with 6x cabs.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Chris LDN
Date Posted: 12 August 2021 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Old, old design.


I am looking to build eight of the half width Jensen Imperial's, that another forum member here built ten years ago.

Looking to see if there's life in some of the old designs.

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Not sure of your desired resp range [...]


Crossover at 200 Hz, to the mids, with a possible exit at 1 kHz.

The plans aren't set in stone, and the bass cabs will be built first. So looking to collect opinions, thoughts, etc. - especially if anyone has heard them, or built them.

Absolutely no information on here about them, aside from one thread, years ago.


Posted By: Chris LDN
Date Posted: 12 August 2021 at 4:37pm
If also interested in how low they could go, in a stack three high? More for curiosity, than anything else.


Posted By: Tinnitus Rex
Date Posted: 12 August 2021 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Chris LDN Chris LDN wrote:

Has anyone built, or heard the 2x12 mid horn, on pages 40-41, of the Fane "Loudspeaker Enclosure Design and Construction" book?

Link to the plan here:

http://hornplans.free.fr/2x12%20front%20horn%20loaded.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://hornplans.free.fr/2x12%20front%20horn%20loaded.jpg

Interested to hear what anyone thinks, if anyone's done any Hornresp simulations, if you've heard them, or built them?

Lots of dodgy angles though - might make the build difficult.
The shape of these is like the wonderful sounding , horrible to transport Martin 115s and other trapezoidal cabs.
Whatever internal design you pick,dont make them with crazy external angles.


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"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"


Posted By: Chris LDN
Date Posted: 12 August 2021 at 7:17pm
Yes, I like the martin 115/215 bins. That's why using a similar cab for mids has my interest. Also wondering if a stack of three high, might play low enough, with judicial driver selection, to be sufficient on kick heavy music, to form a not so micro, "micro stack". Think funk, R&B, soul, etc.

Otherwise, still interested on how they will sound for mids - vocals, especially.


Posted By: Tinnitus Rex
Date Posted: 12 August 2021 at 9:33pm
 Above 100 Hz Three high of anything creates vertical cancelations that often outway any benefits.Point source power density is a better direction .


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"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 13 August 2021 at 12:10am
Originally posted by Chris LDN Chris LDN wrote:


Interested to hear what anyone thinks, if anyone's done any Hornresp simulations, if you've heard them, or built them?


https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/hornresp-for-dum-hmm-everyone.36532/" rel="nofollow - https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/hornresp-for-dum-hmm-everyone.36532/

Have at it. There's not a lot to the design, although take any data from Hornresp >1000 Hz with a pinch of salt.


Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 13 August 2021 at 3:53am
Hi Chris, I had a go at one of the old fane book designs. I chopped and hacked it a bit.  I was just looking through the book and knocked it up one in a morning, I think. J
ust to hear what it sounded like. It was pretty ok. So I made another one looking like the pic just because I could. 
I really like how they sound I have 4x and taken them to a fare few gigs now never had anything other compliments. I do do mainly tekno and psy gigs maybe why. But I really like how the voice sounds . 
Just my experience. I would say knock up one with cheap ply or mdf and have a listen you might like it.




Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 13 August 2021 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by doller doller wrote:

Hi Chris, I had a go at one of the old fane book designs. I chopped and hacked it a bit.  I was just looking through the book and knocked it up one in a morning, I think. J
ust to hear what it sounded like. It was pretty ok. So I made another one looking like the pic just because I could. 
I really like how they sound I have 4x and taken them to a fare few gigs now never had anything other compliments. I do do mainly tekno and psy gigs maybe why. But I really like how the voice sounds . 
Just my experience. I would say knock up one with cheap ply or mdf and have a listen you might like it.


cool!!


Posted By: Chris LDN
Date Posted: 13 August 2021 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/hornresp-for-dum-hmm-everyone.36532/" rel="nofollow - https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/hornresp-for-dum-hmm-everyone.36532/

Have at it. There's not a lot to the design, although take any data from Hornresp >1000 Hz with a pinch of salt.

Unfortunately, Hornresp is limited to the Windows operating system - which I don't use, nor do I know anyone personally who does (unless they're keeping it a tight secret).

Can't use Wine, as I'm not using an x86/x64 device either.

If I knew the step by step maths Hornresp uses, I could knock up something myself, but the author doesn't want to divulge, last time I looked. It's a shame, as reading the history of Hornresp, the author created the original in Fortran - so he would be able to release a cross platform version, if he so desired.

Originally posted by doller doller wrote:

Hi Chris, I had a go at one of the old fane book designs. I chopped and hacked it a bit. I was just looking through the book and knocked it up one in a morning, I think. J
ust to hear what it sounded like. It was pretty ok. So I made another one looking like the pic just because I could.
I really like how they sound I have 4x and taken them to a fare few gigs now never had anything other compliments. I do do mainly tekno and psy gigs maybe why. But I really like how the voice sounds .
Just my experience. I would say knock up one with cheap ply or mdf and have a listen you might like it.


Hi dollar - that looks fantastic! Well done.

I think I will take your advice, and build one or two, just to see for myself. The Fane book states it's a 1.2 sheet affair, so shouldn't take too long.

I'm still open to other peoples thoughts, and ideas though. Just in case anyone else reading this, is thinking case closed, thread locked. No...


Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 14 August 2021 at 2:51am
Good luck Chris. One problem I had was finding the ts parameter's for the old fane speakers. Maybe someone on here has them interweb didn't come up for me.
This is how prototype 3 ended up looking. 

 





Posted By: Tinnitus Rex
Date Posted: 14 August 2021 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Chris LDN Chris LDN wrote:

Has anyone built, or heard the 2x12 mid horn, on pages 40-41, of the Fane "Loudspeaker Enclosure Design and Construction" book?

Link to the plan here:

http://hornplans.free.fr/2x12%20front%20horn%20loaded.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://hornplans.free.fr/2x12%20front%20horn%20loaded.jpg

Interested to hear what anyone thinks, if anyone's done any Hornresp simulations, if you've heard them, or built them?

Lots of dodgy angles though - might make the build difficult.

 Beautiful design and construction from Doller . But , just for clarity ,what frequencys do you want  to cover, because integrating multiple different boxes together is a whole thing in itself.


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"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"


Posted By: Chris LDN
Date Posted: 14 August 2021 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by doller doller wrote:

Good luck Chris. One problem I had was finding the ts parameter's for the old fane speakers. Maybe someone on here has them interweb didn't come up for me.
This is how prototype 3 ended up looking.

Thank you doller, and apologies for getting your name wrong the first time.

You've done a fantastic job with that cabinet! Have you go a build thread? I really love how you've done all the curves. Certainly makes it a sexier looking cabinet. Do you know if the holes in the bracing have any effect of the sound. I remember reading a thread, where someone was able to get a cabinet to play lower, by cutting holes/ports, in the bracing.

Originally posted by Tinnitus Rex Tinnitus Rex wrote:

Beautiful design and construction from Doller . But , just for clarity ,what frequencys do you want to cover, because integrating multiple different boxes together is a whole thing in itself.

Hi Tinnitus Rex. The Fane book, claims a "useable frequency" of 200 Hz, to 1.5 kHz. The metadata page of the book, also include a frequency response plot, showing a slight dip before 200 Hz, and a sharp decline after 1 kHz, loaded with Fane Studio 12B.

The Jensen Imperials that I'm hoping to match, claim a useable frequency response, up to 500 Hz.

I'm hoping to use the Fane cabinets above, between 200 Hz, and approximately 1 kHz.

Like I wrote above, these plans aren't set in stone. The only thing set in stone at the moment, is the building of eight Jensen Imperial scoops, of the Decware half width variety.

I thought I would request thoughts, anecdotes, and ideas, about this cabinet, as I've seen on my searches, that information on this cabinet is sparse. Even though they're an old design, I find that a bit odd, as thousands of these cabinets must've been made, over the years. The only reason I can think of, that the information is sparse, is that the dodgy angles must've put a few budding operators off?!

If I build these, I think I will build a external "sleeve" (if you will), to avoid the dodgy outside angles, and facilitate the placement of handles, without detrating from the look, or the horn path. Doing such, should also provide extra bracing, with the downside of making the box heavier in weight.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 14 August 2021 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by Chris LDN Chris LDN wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/hornresp-for-dum-hmm-everyone.36532/" rel="nofollow - https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/hornresp-for-dum-hmm-everyone.36532/

Have at it. There's not a lot to the design, although take any data from Hornresp >1000 Hz with a pinch of salt.

Unfortunately, Hornresp is limited to the Windows operating system - which I don't use, nor do I know anyone personally who does (unless they're keeping it a tight secret).

Can't use Wine, as I'm not using an x86/x64 device either.

If I knew the step by step maths Hornresp uses, I could knock up something myself, but the author doesn't want to divulge, last time I looked. It's a shame, as reading the history of Hornresp, the author created the original in Fortran - so he would be able to release a cross platform version, if he so desired.



David is retired and already updates Hornresp far more than you might expect. I’d think that a rewrite would be a fairly big job from the current language - the FORTRAN version was run on punch cards!

That said, you’re in luck because Wine 6.0.1 will run x86 and x64 apps on M1 Macs via Rosetta 2:
https://www.winehq.org/announce/6.0.1


Posted By: Tinnitus Rex
Date Posted: 14 August 2021 at 8:17pm
 Just my opinion, I have never liked a 2" crossed over at anything lower than 1k6, I prefer 2k5 because my graphic eq says so. it may well be difficult to get a mid box to go up that high, hense lowering the 2" to meet it . Most horn mids seem to vanish at 1k6 which is why F1  went for a front pointing "axe head device" on a smaller 8"cone @ 455hz-5k7hz (having a crossover point exactly where our ears are most sensitive has always been a bad idea.)  . Trying to get a mid going down to 200hz  at the expense of upper frequencys is a problem ,overlapping creates more problems .Danley , intuitively may well be the "promised land".
BUT ,Practically none of this actually matters unless we are so OCD we fall into a HiFi vortex.
Speaker placement has the biggest effects on perceived sound quality and the less separate cabinets and the less sound exit points the better.
That was the long way round  to suguest having a co-entrant horn ,rather than a co-exit horn.
Stuck in audio barracks causes the mind to wander. Happy Saturday one and all. 


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"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"


Posted By: Chris LDN
Date Posted: 14 August 2021 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

David is retired and already updates Hornresp far more than you might expect. I’d think that a rewrite would be a fairly big job from the current language - the FORTRAN version was run on punch cards!

That said, you’re in luck because Wine 6.0.1 will run x86 and x64 apps on M1 Macs via Rosetta 2: https://www.winehq.org/announce/6.0.1" rel="nofollow - https://www.winehq.org/announce/6.0.1

I'm using a Raspberry Pi, not a Mac - although I do have an M1 Mac, so I'll check that out. Thanks.

Regardless of his age, or employment status, perhaps he could consider releasing the source code to Hornresp under an open source licence. Especially if he's not deriving income from sales. Or, work with another programmer to port it to other platforms.

Otherwise, when he's gone, Hornresp goes with him, and becomes another example of fantastic software, lost to abandonment!


Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 15 August 2021 at 6:13am
Thank Chris. The curves are more for bracing and ease of construction. One single piece instead of 5 separate cuts with funny angles. The box also becomes rock solid natural bracing. No so hard to do after a few practice runs.
The fane book also says up to 110dbw with the rite speaker. That is really loud even by todays standards. I think. With three stacked, would think 8x scoops would struggle to keep up. Again could be wrong. 
What 2inch are you thinking about? 
Don't worry about the name thing it's spelt incorrectly. I know.
I am actually half way into a similar kind of stack at the moment. 115s, big ass mid horns to a 2inch then super tweeter. Heavy and cumbersome  but loving how it sounds.


Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 15 August 2021 at 2:27pm

No excuses!!

https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Set-Up-Wine-on-Raspberry-Pi-1/" rel="nofollow - https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Set-Up-Wine-on-Raspberry-Pi-1/

Thumbs Up


Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 16 August 2021 at 11:43am

With regards to him releasing the source under an open-source licence, he may not be able to as some of the source could “possibly” be licenced IP from another developer…

… Developers often purchase licences for third party code libraries, this gives the developer rights to use the licenced code in any application they develop, however they are not allowed publish the source code or pass code containing the library onto third parties without the permission of the licensor.



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