8x EV 15L - need your oppinion
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Topic: 8x EV 15L - need your oppinion
Posted By: nebellungen
Subject: 8x EV 15L - need your oppinion
Date Posted: 18 August 2021 at 10:17pm
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Hello Guys , i have to make a decision. currently i have 7 ev 15l speakers (all working) and the 8th one is arriving shortly. iam looking for cab suggestions. i know that the 15l has problems (low xmax / no real sub , low power handling, outdated design) but i want to give those 8 speakers a new live and dont sell them. i planned on using WinISD to design my own br cabs , tuned to 45-50hz and just be content with having no real subs. a friend of mine is a carpenter and would build the cabs & i would have to pay "just" wood. was planning to use 15mm seapine plywood and just use a lot of bracing (since they have low power handling , i should be fine ?) do you know what to do better (open for suggestions) me and my friend group throw bigger private parties from time to time (200pers) and the music is mostly techno. thanks in advance. |
Replies:
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 19 August 2021 at 3:59am
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The Electro-voice 15 L is a full-range speaker. Specifically designed for Lead Guitar hence the model 15 L. It is more efficient than the 15 inch drivers offered today. They should be around 103 dB, 1-watt, 1 meter (no: 7.2%). You can use them in Horn-Loaded Straight Horns or Bass Reflex Cabinets. The 15 L will not offer much bass below 60 Hertz. With a 2.5 inch voice coil and, low Le figures, it is ideal for midrange applications. This is where they offered the best performance.
As for power, you can safely feed each 15L up to 600 watts RMS as they offered a 800 watt Peak Power Rating. Anything beyond 600 watts you will encounter power compression from 60 Hz on up. That is pretty much what I fed my 15B's when I used them in the 1990's.
Bear in mind, Electro-voice 15L recone kits were discontinued before the 1990's. So, you may have 15B kits sitting in 15L chassis. As the chassis are interchangeable, the only way you can tell the difference amongst the two models would be the cones.
Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 21 August 2021 at 5:03am
| I think you are going to want subs, but 8 of those drivers will produce more than enough low/mid for a kick ass personal backyard party system. |
Posted By: Peter Jan
Date Posted: 21 August 2021 at 2:29pm
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I used several of these during the eighties in TL606 cabs, which is just a straightforward BR cab, with the option to change the tuning by blocking (or not ) part of the BR port. Very efficient, allround bass down to ~45-50 Hz with the lowest tuning and a bit of EQ. As long as you used enough of them, you could certainly get by without subs. 300-350 Watts for each speaker was plenty ( and about the max RMS power amps in those days could deliver ;-) ) The higher tuning offered more punchy bass from 60-70 and up, but needed dedicated subs for an overall balanced sound. |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 23 August 2021 at 3:13am
Nope, that is the most commonly shared falsehood about them on the internet.
Again... No. There's plenty of low power : high efficiency drivers still in production today. Many of them clones/derivations of the EVM15L.
That's a very quick way to punch the VC through the cone with an EVM... Feed *actual* 600W to one of those drivers and you'll be getting your wallet out for a recone. Amplifier power rating =/= power delivered.
They were in production well into the 00's under different model designations. The kits are still available though really not cheap. Depending on the application you're using them for the aftermarket kits can also be perfectly serviceable. ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Elliot Thompson wrote:Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 23 August 2021 at 3:34am
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They're great drivers, even by todays standards if you look at the likes of the Oberton 15L400 and a number of Fane, Eminence, etc. drivers and rapidly see where they draw their lineage. They are absolutely not Sub or Heavy Bass capable, do not even try it. You'll also have to be absolutely religious about the high-pass filter. If you're planning to use them for anything more than pub-band level stuff then you'll need subs below them. The best boxes for them IMO is the TL606AR (or ARX) as built by Shuttlesound (previously the UK EV distributor). I have the plans for these if you are interested and IMO it is a considerably nicer take on the design than the original TL606 designs from the EV handbook. Shame you're not in the UK as you could buy mine  ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 6:08am
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I own Electro-voice EVM 15 B, EVM 15L, in addition to numerous other Electro-voice Speakers. Why would I be concerned about what the “ shared falsehood about them on the internet” when I have documentations from Electro-voice. In addition to having the capability of literally measuring the TS Parameters of the drivers.
I don't recall the topic was about a carbon copy of the Electro-voice EVM 15L. I am talking about the original.
And that is based upon what? Your opinion? How can one debate what “they feel” against a user offering real-world conditions based on their experience?
I think you better stop for, you are just showing your lack of experience using the Electro-voice EVM.
If you were familiar with after market kits, they never sound like the originals. Why should they? They are carbon copies of the originals. So what was the point of you trying to contradict everything I said again?
Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 7:08am
Near everything in your original post was complete pigshite is why...  Owning kit =/= qualification on it. Funnily enough I own it too and have had plenty of use of it. Trying to swing that as some sort of "I say so, that makes it fact" instead of actually having any proof is nonsense. The L in the 15L doesn't stand for Lead, nowhere in the original documentation is that stated. There's been a few anecdotal instances of EV themselves denying it too if you care to google them even briefly. Nor was it specifically designed for Lead Guitar, it has only ever been marketed with some derivation of "suitable for instrument and sound reinforcement applications". I was addressing your inaccurate statement (as is bloody obvious given the quote directly above it) that modern 15" drivers are not efficient. There are a great deal of them. That is based upon a user offering real-world conditions based on their experience... Never mind the collective experience of many real-world users. Where do you think the practise of coating the neck of the cone with lacquer to reinforce it came from? The motor on those drivers is more than capable of pushing the cone past it's excursion limit and separating the neck from the rest of the cone (it's also the most common failure seen on them). As for the power, go and learn about duty-cycle and crest factor. If you still believe you can feed an EVM15 600Wrms without it rapidly dying, let alone safely, then any further discussion would be like trying to play chess with a pigeon. I think you better stop, for you are just showing your lack of experience and understanding of the equipment and the basic principles of it's operation I won't knock anyone for having learning difficulties so I'll give you a little help with that last one:
At no point did I say the aftermarket kits are exactly as the originals  ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 8:38am
I guess you missed the "up to" between the 15L and, 600 watts RMS. Have you driven up to 600 watts RMS into an Electro-voice EVM 15L or 15B from 60 Hertz on up and damaged the driver? If the answer is yes, share your user errors on how it happened. If the answer is no, I have no idea why you are so upset that I've done it successfully and never lost a driver. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 9:31am
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I have 16 bfl things. Well 14 because 2 have rubbing voice coils. Not me came like that. Wondering what to do with them. I have seen these ragged to hell for a good few hrs. 600w absolutely. I was waiting for them to break and they didn't. Quite a strong speaker me thinks. Taking them out this weekend. Must say not very good by todays standards. Not 50 million watts. Good mid range speaker I think. Note, I know the thread is about another ev but I rate them.
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 9:37am
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Not really, ‘up to 600Wrms safely’ means what it says and that’s absolutely pigshite. That’s like saying “up to 1million” and then backtracking to “I meant 200… that’s in there on the way up!” 🙄 Asserting you have fed them that and they survived unharmed is also misinformed pigshite. I refer to my previous comments, an amplifier rated at 600Wrms doesn’t mean you’re feeding your speakers anywhere near 600Wrms. Go and learn what crest-factor means as you obviously don’t understand the relationship between signal content and speaker power. You can’t feed them 60-120Hz on a 500w/8R amplifier with something the crest-factor of live music without them getting beaten up, let alone a setup capable of feeding them anything close to 600Wrms. You’re either deeply misinformed or knowingly bullshitting, are you sure you shouldn’t be posting in the scoop section? ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 10:41am
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Yer scoops where next. Had a couple of beers so laughing about that. It Depends on your high pass. For me anyway. 100hz and ragged. Really at that time i didn't own them they where off a crown amp or Amcron as they are called here. The red one really can't remember what the model is. 900w into 4r maybe. It was clipping hard. I do get the crest factor etc. It was live rock music, me and a friend were just looking at the speakers and laughing. They have a shiny silicone edge and man could you see just how much excursion was happening. They survived and the owner sold me 4 for 50 qiud. It's real . Like I said mid driver. |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 10:56am
Wasn’t aiming that at you, Doller  ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 12:02pm
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Like I said dude laughing. No worries. Put it another way If you get these speakers in a reflex box running off something like a crown xti 4000. High pass them at 45 or 40 with a 48db slope butterworth or lr up to you. They should take all that the amp can give without breaking. No clipping. Maybe would sound ok. Thoughts?
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 24 August 2021 at 12:15pm
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60-120Hz 24dB/Oct L-R in a TL-606 reflex box on a TSA 4-700 (~500W into 8R) and the cones begin to crease around the neck if you take it to full power (no clipping) So I’d say no, the EVM15L/B wouldn’t survive any more than that for very long 3.3mm Xmax really limits the amount of punishment they can take and from memory their Xlim/Xdam isn’t as far above that as it would be on a driver with more modern motor design (even the DL15X handles more punishment than the EVM and that’s basically an EVM15B with an updated motor and a demodulation ring) The DL15BFH also benefits from the DL upgraded motors, etc.
------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 7:39am
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Ok road runner you did the math. I concede. I am talking about my dl15 bfl ( thanks I can never remember that number) Looks like you are saying that they are a stronger speaker. Are they? I would never put them in a bass bin. Maybe a kick but still could find much better cheaper. I have seen the said creasing on Emmys and Peaveys. Emmys around the cloth surround and Peaveys in the center around the dust cap.
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 7:58am
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Stronger in that they take more “abuse”… The BFH is more like the DL version of the FORCE15 (EVM with a baby magnet) so driver-wise it’s swings and roundabouts for performance. They’re definitely not sub drivers either 😂 It’s definitely the cheaper end of the same family whereas the DL15ST or DL15X are a fairer comparison to the EVM15L/B and the 15X definitely takes more abuse. ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 8:11am
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The original poster doesn't say how old his drivers were, from memory, the early ones were rated at just 100w. I believe that increased with later models. Interesting thing about these, i think the 2.5 inch coil must be in a very tight gap,which obviously helps the sensitivity, but every one i have owned, the cone excusion allways feels 'rough', as if the coil is rubbing, yet they all play well when in a cabinet.  ------------- Be seeing you. |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 10:04am
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200Wrms (Thermal) on the early ones later increased to 400Wrms (Thermal) due to a combination of different testing standards and better thermal properties of the glues, lacquers, etc. Not that it actually matters if you’re using them for bass duty since they’ll mechanically exceed their capacity before they do thermally if fed real-world content instead of test tones The 12” & 10” versions had a bit more of a non-sensical rating scheme that seems to have varied depending on who they were OEMd to, etc. The DL series appear to have opened the gap up slightly and lined it with Teflon, it really is like threading a needle on the EVMs which makes cleaning the gap out on a recone *so* much fun 😂 Interestingly the EVM-18B can also be rarely found with familiar Blue labels and an LS-1801e designation…
------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 10:21am
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Seems like they changed quite a lot over the years. I said what I said because I read the manual. In there it says 400w. If you want to use them to 40hz cover the ports to stop them bottoming out. Designs are available if you can find them. Also recommended amp 400 to 800w. That said who knows what the op has. I am interested in this thread because I have 14 working ones (Bbfl) in eliminators. DH3 comps x 8 working fine. I just think they could be in a better box. I don't want to abuse them but what would you do with them? They cost 54,000 yen 350 quid, here if you buy new. So not a cheap driver. That doesn't guarantee sound quality I no. Where to put them? In the bin? rite now used they sell for peanuts. Road runner sir I am not really into driving things to within an inch of there life. I would rather keep my speakers within there limits. It works out cheaper in the end. That day I was just amazed they didn't break that's all. Made me think that they are better that I thought.
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Posted By: nebellungen
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 11:45am
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600 watts is way too much , even i know that. since they are non proline , they are rates for 200. 600-800 would straight up wreck them in seconds & then i gotta recone 8 drivers
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Posted By: nebellungen
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 11:47am
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i think so as well , i will try them out tuned to 45hz i think , with a bit eq and moderate power and see how that works out. thanks for the tip
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Posted By: nebellungen
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 11:49am
thanks for the help !
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Posted By: nebellungen
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 11:52am
iam really interested in those boxes , you mind sharing the plans with me ? maybe i will use subs / infras under them one day , but for now i think 40hz lowcut , moderate power and my plan on how i want to use them and for what , i think i dont really need or have the money for subs. thanks for the help !
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Posted By: nebellungen
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 12:00pm
hey jbl_man , all my drivers are the old non proline 200 watt rms version ( at least i think) i want to wire them up in 4 ohm pairs , my amping is still a big ? , i will get to that when i finished the caps. for testing i can use 2x yamaha p1600. for all other people , i know the material i own is not nearly anywhere "pro". i just wanna have fun & a fairly good sounding rig for private parties. no need for huge bass orgies / 8x 2000 watt subs. just in it for the fun
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Posted By: nebellungen
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 12:05pm
sadly i own the old non proline models with 200 watt rms. when i buy the amp , i want to buy one that can drive 8x the pro version with 400 watts each comfy. i dont plan on killing my speakers , but if one dies , the recone kits are only aviable in the pro version so i want to plan for that. using them as subs , i will be limited by xmax anyway , or else i will just kill them fast imo. i wanna be gentle to them.
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 12:05pm
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I’ve sent you a PM if you can access them yet on this site? Otherwise drop me a PM on facebook: www.Guildford cable company.co.uk
------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: nebellungen
Date Posted: 25 August 2021 at 12:08pm
ahh , right now iam on mobile because iam in the process of moving flats. i will get to it once that is finished. and thank you for your help & sharing your knowledge / experience. ! :)
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Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 01 September 2021 at 11:26am
I see I've touched a nerve because all now you haven't said if you tried it or not. Yet, you are cursing left right and center All you are saying it can't be done. Meanwhile, I've used 8 EVM 15B Series II loudspeakers on 2 QSC EX 4000 Amplifiers from 60 Hz on up from 1990's - 2000 and, never lost a driver. I retired the drivers once I upgraded to the QSC PL 6.0 and upgraded the top boxes. Argument is done. Go play Chess. Obviously, your knowledge is solely based upon reading specification sheets and, have no real world experience in regards to the EVM 15 L and EVM 15 B. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 01 September 2021 at 1:47pm
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No, I've never been so bloody stupid as to try it. Why would I damage my difficult and expensive to repair equipment proving a point to ill-informed gimps on the internet? I can fairly well guarantee that you've never actually metered the Voltage*Current function of them though so your assertation that you've delivered the power is totally baseless. Once again, go discover what crest-factor means. If you want to dick-swing about doorstops, I ran mine from an SR-707 for a long time until moving to light-weight amplifiers. Doesn't change the laws of physics. The argument was done after my first post. Everything you've said since demonstrates you haven't a clue  Go cry to the admins about the swearing, pigshite being spread about by idiots is called pigshite. If they don't like it they can update the filter. Meanwhile I'll continue having fun playing with my EVMs that I apparently don't own or use ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 06 February 2022 at 12:04pm
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i am not sure how much the wood increased in price at your place, before i build cabs for those ( midrange ) drivers, i would test every speaker for magnetization, if you have one in the chain which got hits in the last decades it will not deliver the motor force and you will end up with a recone, sometimes its just better to get new drivers imo, considering the cost of the wood + manpower building them
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