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Crest CA6 bridged output

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Category: General
Forum Name: Amp Forum
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URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=106933
Printed Date: 26 September 2022 at 7:38am
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Topic: Crest CA6 bridged output
Posted By: Lucasdude
Subject: Crest CA6 bridged output
Date Posted: 08 March 2022 at 9:39am
This might be a silly question but I'm not in a position to test it right now. Does anyone know if the single bridged speakon socket is paralleled for 1+/- and 2+/-, or is the output only available on 1+/-? I'm just trying to plan my wiring and if I'm driving two 8ohm cabs from the bridged output I would prefer to have a separate 2.5mm pair for each from the amp rather than a single run to the first then out to the second.



Replies:
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 08 March 2022 at 2:47pm
I believe the 3rd connector only has 1+/2- on it. 

To have dedicated cable runs to each box you will need a patch panel at the amp rack.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 08 March 2022 at 2:48pm
or you could make a split speakon lead with one speakon only connecting to +1 on one amp channel, and the other -1 on the other. those 2 speakons at one end of the cable with one wire each i mean..


Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 08 March 2022 at 5:34pm
Thanks for the replies, guys. I do like Speakons, but this sort of thing was much easier with the binding post version.
  The manual says pins 1+&2+ for bridged out, but looking at the board inside I can see that all 4 pins are soldered for that socket.


Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 08 March 2022 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do like Speakons, but this sort of thing was much easier with the binding post version.
  The manual says pins 1+&2+ for bridged out, but looking at the board inside I can see that all 4 pins are soldered for that socket.

If it follows the same principal as the QSC EX 4000;

Single Speakon Socket Stereo Mode

1+ Positive Left Channel
1 - Negative Left Channel

2+ Positive Right Channel
2 - Negative Right Channel

Single Speakon Socket Bridged Mono

1+ Positive Left Channel
2+ Positive Right Channel



Best Regards,


-------------
Elliot Thompson


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 12:46am
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

If it follows the same principal as the QSC EX 4000;

Single Speakon Socket Stereo Mode

1+ Positive Left Channel
1 - Negative Left Channel

2+ Positive Right Channel
2 - Negative Right Channel

Ok that make more sense, makes it possible to use a single 4-core cable to biamp a box without any custom adapters.


Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 10:15am
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

If it follows the same principal as the QSC EX 4000;

Single Speakon Socket Stereo Mode

1+ Positive Left Channel
1 - Negative Left Channel

2+ Positive Right Channel
2 - Negative Right Channel

Ok that make more sense, makes it possible to use a single 4-core cable to biamp a box without any custom adapters.

Boxes such as the EAW SB 850 were wired in the same manner. It allow each driver to have it's own dedicated amplifier. Great for the touring market however, not ideal for those that must load four loudspeakers (each loudspeaker residing in its own enclosure) on each channel of the amplifier. Hence, the reason to offer three Speakon sockets. This allowed more flexibility based on the user's requirements.


Best Regards,




-------------
Elliot Thompson


Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do like Speakons, but this sort of thing was much easier with the binding post version.
  The manual says pins 1+&2+ for bridged out, but looking at the board inside I can see that all 4 pins are soldered for that socket.

If it follows the same principal as the QSC EX 4000;

Single Speakon Socket Stereo Mode

1+ Positive Left Channel
1 - Negative Left Channel

2+ Positive Right Channel
2 - Negative Right Channel

Single Speakon Socket Bridged Mono

1+ Positive Left Channel
2+ Positive Right Channel



Best Regards,

I think its a bit odd that provision is made for all 4 pins in stereo mode, but not in bridge mode. I didn't initially check the manual, I just assumed that the bridge out would be on pins 1+/-. I will need to have dedicated cables for bridge mode on 1+/2+. As all 4 pins are soldered on the board behind the socket, is seems silly not to be able to use them.


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

I think its a bit odd that provision is made for all 4 pins in stereo mode, but not in bridge mode. I didn't initially check the manual, I just assumed that the bridge out would be on pins 1+/-. I will need to have dedicated cables for bridge mode on 1+/2+. As all 4 pins are soldered on the board behind the socket, is seems silly not to be able to use them.

I think you are missing an important point, bridging a 2 channel amp turns it into a single channel amplifier, bridged power is only available across the combined voltage swing of both channels. You can't get the bridged power from all terminals. 

Another point I didn't mention earlier, there is only 1200w of output here to be shared by two subs, there really is no need for dedicated cables to each box IMO.


Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do like Speakons, but this sort of thing was much easier with the binding post version.
  The manual says pins 1+&2+ for bridged out, but looking at the board inside I can see that all 4 pins are soldered for that socket.

If it follows the same principal as the QSC EX 4000;

Single Speakon Socket Stereo Mode

1+ Positive Left Channel
1 - Negative Left Channel

2+ Positive Right Channel
2 - Negative Right Channel

Single Speakon Socket Bridged Mono

1+ Positive Left Channel
2+ Positive Right Channel



Best Regards,

I think its a bit odd that provision is made for all 4 pins in stereo mode, but not in bridge mode. I didn't initially check the manual, I just assumed that the bridge out would be on pins 1+/-. I will need to have dedicated cables for bridge mode on 1+/2+. As all 4 pins are soldered on the board behind the socket, is seems silly not to be able to use them.

In Bridged Mode, you use the positive terminal of each channel to connect to the loudspeaker. You never use the negative terminals in Bridged Mode.


Bear in mind, Crest CA Series is exported using Speakon sockets due to Banana Plugs being banned in Europe on power amplifiers delivering a certain amount of power. In the Americas, it is rare to find a Crest CA 6 offering Speakon outputs as, they are equipped to use Banana Plugs.


It is always best to read the manual before posing a question as it will save you a lot of time in finding answers. Especially when you are working with equipment that is obsolete.


Best Regards,




-------------
Elliot Thompson


Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 3:48pm
Thanks for your replies. My point is pretty simple. On the binding post version of Crest amps, of which I have had many in the past, I was able to run a pair of cables from ch1 hot and channel 2 hot in bridged mode using spades, and on the Speakon version i cannot.


Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 4:37pm

There is no reason why you cannot customize such a tool using one Speakon connector on one end and a Binding Posts on the other end. Customization is very common with sound systems that are not catering to the corporate market.


Best Regards,




-------------
Elliot Thompson


Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

There is no reason why you cannot customize such a tool using one Speakon connector on one end and a Binding Posts on the other end. Customization is very common with sound systems that are not catering to the corporate market.


Best Regards,

4


It's a fair point, Elliot. Actually, the board still has the binding post holes and traces and the back panel has the 4 holes in it. They are just covered over by the EU version sticker, so it would be fairly easy to add binding posts in addition to the Speakon sockets. I would have to do 4 amps for my project though...


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 March 2022 at 11:54pm
I think I see your point now, they put a dedicated Bridged connector on the thing and could have wired it any way they wanted, but instead of doing it it so a standard straight thru Speakon cable can be used they force you to build a custom.. which is pretty dumb.. completely defeats the point of having a dedicated connector. I would be possible to wire the bridged output to both pairs on the NL4 too, but that would be asking too much I bet. 

On my Yamaha amps both outputs appear on Ch1 speakon so a custom cable would be required to access bridged output, but I built a patch panel for the amp rack with connectors prewired to address this so I don't need a special cable or an adapter. 


Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 10 March 2022 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do like Speakons, but this sort of thing was much easier with the binding post version.
  The manual says pins 1+&2+ for bridged out, but looking at the board inside I can see that all 4 pins are soldered for that socket.

If it follows the same principal as the QSC EX 4000;

Single Speakon Socket Stereo Mode

1+ Positive Left Channel
1 - Negative Left Channel

2+ Positive Right Channel
2 - Negative Right Channel

Single Speakon Socket Bridged Mono

1+ Positive Left Channel
2+ Positive Right Channel



Best Regards,

EX4000 Methinks you will find the channel a & b outputs are each 1+/1- whereas single speakon socket use's 1+ & 2+ in bridge mode AND 1+/1- & 2+/2- when in in two channel mode 

As for the OP I would suggest unless your cable runs are over 25m then a single run of 4mm then link the cabs rather than 2 runs of 2 x 2.5mm 




-------------
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"


Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 10 March 2022 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by 4D 4D wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do like Speakons, but this sort of thing was much easier with the binding post version.
  The manual says pins 1+&2+ for bridged out, but looking at the board inside I can see that all 4 pins are soldered for that socket.

If it follows the same principal as the QSC EX 4000;

Single Speakon Socket Stereo Mode

1+ Positive Left Channel
1 - Negative Left Channel

2+ Positive Right Channel
2 - Negative Right Channel

Single Speakon Socket Bridged Mono

1+ Positive Left Channel
2+ Positive Right Channel



Best Regards,

EX4000 Methinks you will find the channel a & b outputs are each 1+/1- whereas single speakon socket use's 1+ & 2+ in bridge mode AND 1+/1- & 2+/2- when in in two channel mode 

As for the OP I would suggest unless your cable runs are over 25m then a single run of 4mm then link the cabs rather than 2 runs of 2 x 2.5mm 



One of the reasons I said single socket. The QSC EX 4000 offers three Speakon sockets like the Crest CA 6. Both follow the same wiring configuration upon reading the CA 6 Manual. 

QSC was the first USA Amplifier manufacture to adapt Speakon on their top of the line series (EX) around 1987. That series was aimed directly to compete against Crown's Macro-tech Series which, dominated the USA touring market in the 1980's. The amount of money Crown made from the Macro-tech 2400... Ridiculous. 

Best Regards, 


-------------
Elliot Thompson



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