who makes amps for RCF boxes - is it Powersoft ?
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Category: General
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URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=107012
Printed Date: 24 April 2024 at 11:47am
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Topic: who makes amps for RCF boxes - is it Powersoft ?
Posted By: Line Array
Subject: who makes amps for RCF boxes - is it Powersoft ?
Date Posted: 13 April 2022 at 12:12pm
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looking at some amp modules in RCF boxes they look a lot like the amp modules from Ottocanali ... but does Powersoft actually make them ? or is it somebody else ? also why did powersoft develop iPal with B&C and not RCF if RCF buys their amps ? frankly RCF sub drivers look kinda weak compared to B&C iPal ...
------------- best place on the internet >>> https://dissidentsound.discoursehosting.net |
Replies:
Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 13 April 2022 at 12:57pm
| Powersoft do not make the rcf and db tech modules. They are made by their own digipro part of the company. |
Posted By: Line Array
Date Posted: 13 April 2022 at 11:03pm
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kinda disappointing. but maybe it's good that engineers in Italy have some options for where to work. ------------- best place on the internet >>> https://dissidentsound.discoursehosting.net |
Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 7:48am
And why is that disappointing? RCF make some good amps. Just look at the ART312A box. Its been around for ages, and there simply isnt another product that can perform and deliver the same kind of sound for that kind of money. RCF knows what they are doing. Sure they have made some lemons thrue the years, but who hasnt  |
Line Array wrote:Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 8:28am
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Many of the digipro amp modules are non reparable when they blow up. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 9:07am
Have you tried repairing some of the new JBL EON or PRX modules? Or most of the Class D stuff out there? Generally not worth bothering with. Just throw away & replace...  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 9:23am
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The old ART300/500 amps were analogue and thru-hole construction, generally reliable except for the usual problem with most active cabs involving stuff vibrating off the board. SAme with the early DB opera range. But like with anything, cost cutting comes along and the AEB digipro modules are not IMHO really in the same league. Maybe I'm alone here but I think the 'designed by crown' EON and PRX amps are more friendly to work on. Certainly they have gone to the trouble of writing a service manual with reliability bulletins and diagams in there, which is more than you can say for AEB Industriale who (according to their service agent) want the whole module changing for new. ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 9:38am
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"Maybe I'm alone here but I think the 'designed by crown' EON and PRX amps are more friendly to work on." Aye, marginal - but give me an old G2 module any day! ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 10:30am
An anecdote regarding the old RCF/Mackie Art 300/500
amplifiers, I used to do the electronics repairs for a couple of music shops, one
shop had a service contract at a hotel that had 20 of the Art 300A speakers permanently
installed (at height) in a largish ball room, these were powered 24/7 and the
system worked well for several years, then one weekend 5 died, then a few days
later another 3 failed. The fault was simple in that the amplifier has two 100ohm 1.6watt resistors that drop the +/- 40v rails down to feed the +/-15v rail regulators, one of these resistors would fail and so one of the 15v rails would disappear. This caused both the LF and HF amplifiers to swing hard one way, blowing the output transistors and both the drivers. I advised the shop to get the remaining 12 cabinets to me ASAP
so I could change the 100r resistors so the remaining cabinets wouldn’t suffer
the same fate. The hotel refused to let the shop remove the remaining cabinets as
they were "setting up for a conference and needed them”!! On the day of the conference the shop "got the call" as the rest of the PA had stopped working and could they do something to help!! This all happened at the time when RCF and Mackie were going through their “divorce” and due to the way they had set up the service arrangements the 12” woofer (or re-cone kit) was unobtainable, and as it’s not a standard chassis size nothing else fits the plastic cab. It was decided to wright-off all 20 failed cabinets. …. All because a slightly undersized pair of resistors (and a client that didn't take advice)!! |
Posted By: Line Array
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 11:00am
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are you guys saying that surface mount devices are not repairable ? wouldn't that apply to powersoft and other high-density amps as well then ? or basically all modern class D amps ? even my 20 year old QSC PLX ( class H ) is Surface Mount. wouldn't you have to go all the way back to toroid amps under that definition of repairability ? or are you talking about something else ? ------------- best place on the internet >>> https://dissidentsound.discoursehosting.net |
Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 11:10am
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SMD is repairable but can be a PITA compared to thru-hole. Most industrial (and well designed) electronics tends to be a hybrid, with all the small signal components in SMD and the power stuff still thru-hole. |
Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 11:33am
Anything is repairable if money is no object, but finding someone willing to put the time into repairing, and obtaining certain hybrid parts at an economic rate versus replacement of a module is the question. ------------- Be seeing you. |
Posted By: jammin75
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 1:01pm
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i have a db es 1002 which i use for small tite space gigs can the amp module be repaired ? ------------- feel the vibes !!! "Who Feels it Knows it" Strong like Lion |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:03pm
| I've stuck cheap p-audio 12s into art 312s and they've fitted ok. Just saying. |
Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:13pm
although these resistors were undersized and therefore failed, it is a testament to their consistency and qc that they all failed within weeks of each other 
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Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:38pm
Yep, amazing consistency and under normal use they would have probably never fail but running 24/7 for several years sent them over the edge. With regarding the replacement driver, It was a long time ago, the shop has been closed for over 10 years, the woofer had a slightly larger than normal (for the time) 12" chassis, and the only drivers what would fit were other RCF drivers that due to the RCF/Mackie fallout were not available, We considered getting adapters machined up but the client didn't like the price. Ironically about a month after they were replaced, RCF sorted out its service network and the re-cone kits became available again. |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 5:10pm
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I've got a plate amp from a JBL PRX just come in last night, together with another from a QSC k-series. I'll let you know which one wins on repairability! ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 14 April 2022 at 9:18pm
Definitely this. Diagnostics on a high density board is a lot more difficult & time consuming. And try source some of the custom transformers that a lot use. Not easy. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: speakerguy1
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 5:22am
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DB technologies is who makes the amps in later rcf products. I think the original class AB amps used in the First art series and Mackie speakers were built in house by rcf. After years of experience I have found that there is nothing like the first amps that Rcf made. I have had almost every new Rcf speaker and they sound good until you go back and listen to some of their older products and you will be blown away. the dynamics, transients, quality and power are unmatched by the the new class D models. the new class D amps from Rcf are definitely better than most other class D amps on the market and they sound fine but when I put my Rcf art 7 series next To my Mackie Srm 450 v1 (made by Rcf) they couldn't hold up. the Mackies have such precision and the imaging is out of this world along side all of the other analog characteristics, the new products sound somewhat week and flat even with 1400 watts that they are rated at. I also recently purchased the new art 945a. I wanted to give them a try hoping that maybe they have advanced the digital amps after 20 yers of development. also they have new Fir phase filters. Sadly there doesn't seem to be much of a difference. they definitely Sound better than my art 7 and art 4 series but still the Mackies have an edge when you do a side by side comparison. it just sucks that the 945s cost me nearly 5 grand and they still aren't as good as the OGs. it seems no matter how much you spend, old School equipment wins. |
Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 12:50pm
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Hold up... you prefer a Mackie srm450 mk1 over a RCF Art 7? I would really like to know what 7 series you got there. I have directly compared the Mackie srm450 mk1 with RCF ART732a mk4. And others at the same time. The mackies can't keep up SPL wise without sounding distressed. And sound quality is limping along. 732a mk4 runs circles around that Mackie box. |
Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 7:53pm
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+1 , 945a is way better and louder box then srm450 mk1 ------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |
Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 8:44pm
Same as. I'm not sure srm450 was ever a good speaker. It was bad as a DJ monitor.
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Posted By: Wikl109
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 10:46pm
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The original SRM-450 wasn't a bad box at all, quite ground breaking for it's time infact. However it was voiced with that typical 'American PA' shouty upper midrange character, like all the Peavey and JBL boxes from that era sounded. I'm aware the original 450 was basically a cab designed by RCF. I don't like modern class D amp modules, all manufacturers seem to use them now. Be it American, Chinese or European. I don't think they are all that unreliable just much harder to repair when they go wrong. ------------- Cheers, Chris. |
Posted By: speakerguy1
Date Posted: 07 October 2023 at 7:13am
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I forgot to mention a few points. First off I wasn’t talking about max SPL and loudness of the speakers. The Srm 450 has a class AB amp and once you switch into class B you loose quality and Power. The newer Rcf’s will handle higher SPL levels better. My main purpose for them isn’t high output applications. I’m using the srm 450s for a high res application. I’m also using them crossed over with Rcf subs, they have set EQ and also a preamp/DAC. Under these circumstances the class AB amplifies perform better. They produce a better soundstage, dynamics and imaging. with high res lossless, Dolby atmos, MQA and DSD audio they deliver a much better experience than the class d amplifiers do. I understand that for most people new RCF speakers are more ideal. They are better for high output live applications and stand alone use (without subs). Also reliability is better. And they handle better when pushing max SPL levels. I was simply talking about differences between class AB and class D amplifiers. Everyone has different uses and different uses call for different products. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 07 October 2023 at 9:25am
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Simple cabs on sticks have their limits. People often expect too much from them, i.e. bass-end. That is what usually kills them. For any serious use, you have to stick in a bass bin and crossover. Kill everything below 90/100Hz from the cab and it will last a lot longer - and sound a lot better. I know one place that had 4 JBL PRX 715's around the DJ as monitors, but he still managed to blow them all in one night by sticking too much bass through them. A bass bin and 1 or 2 PRX would have saved them a lot of money. I've done a few (small) gigs this year with some old EON G2's and 18" bins. I had the Eons lying around, unused for a while and just thought I'd break them out. You forget how good those old cabs can sound if set up properly. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 07 October 2023 at 5:22pm
Run a live vocal thrue the Art732a mk4. Maybe a guitar at the same time. High or low SPL doesnt matter. The srm450 simply can't keep up. |