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Best mid top cab with Martin Audio S218+?

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Category: General
Forum Name: General Forum
Forum Description: Open Discussion / Questions
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=107251
Printed Date: 02 October 2022 at 4:26am
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Topic: Best mid top cab with Martin Audio S218+?
Posted By: Soundscape
Subject: Best mid top cab with Martin Audio S218+?
Date Posted: 31 July 2022 at 9:06pm
Looking at a good quality used PA system for a small venue with a capacity of 220 peeps.

Stage at one end of the room has 2 spaces or 'cut outs' on the left and right hand sides for speakers to be floor stacked. Note - there's no chain hoists and I'd be very surprised if the budget would stretch to a small line array anyway. So, I think a pair of Martin Audio S218+ boxes would suit for some solid bass end - would a single S15+ be sufficient to cover mid top?
Or, how about 2 x S12+ boxes per side instead, using a single spacer pole with a double spigot?
Or, are there other makes/designs that would work better? Preferably UK made products.

Comments/suggestions welcome.

Thanks



Replies:
Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 31 July 2022 at 11:13pm
How wide is the room? H3 over s218 has always been a pleasure to mix on, if a little narrow for a wide, side on room


Posted By: Soundscape
Date Posted: 01 August 2022 at 5:55pm
Room is approx. 70ft long x 25ft wide
Quite a high ceiling as it was a school hall originally, built in the 1880's I believe.
Owners have already bought some decent quality black drapes that are hung across the end wall facing the stage plus some more on the long side walls. There were issues with the hard, reflective surfaces affecting the sound not surprisingly and the drapes have made a big improvement.



Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 01 August 2022 at 6:30pm
I currently have pair of Martin 2x18 reflex (BSX copies I believe), with ASS MX600s above each.

Martin docs says run the Cabs upto 200hz, so that's exactly what I do.

I bring the ASS 12" sections in at 160hz (All active, and delayed).

Not how I would normally want to run a rig, but venue owner exceedingly happy, says when live artists on stage, the mid tops raise hairs on the back of your neck.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Pinyorouk
Date Posted: 01 August 2022 at 7:06pm
What drivers do you have in the BSX copies? 


Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 01 August 2022 at 9:04pm
Agree with above, H3 or THV it's called now would be a solid shout. If you prefer turbosound stuff I have a friend that uses aspect above martin 218s to good effect too.


Posted By: Soundscape
Date Posted: 04 August 2022 at 9:05pm
Thanks for your comments guys.
What's the difference between Martin BSX and S218+ boxes?
Was the same driver used in both designs? Or, is the BSX more than a reflex design, uses a different (original) driver (B & C?) and is more efficient, plays lower etc..?

Are there any ASS MX600 boxes for sale anywhere?

To Levyte - what drivers are you using in your BSX copies and what amps are you driving them with please? And what amps for your ASS MX600's?

Cheers


Posted By: PISSHEAD
Date Posted: 04 August 2022 at 11:30pm
ASS MX 600 --100KG per box

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The 'drunken master' strikes again.


Posted By: teeth
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 9:25am
hey! i assume you mean F15 / F12 in your original post, not S?

in which case, the F15 are generally accepted as being the worst in the series and the 12 the best. 

i run 12s with 218s and they are great but can lack SPL, although you can really push them. 

i have had good success with a kick section (HD15) but one day might go for a 218 as a kick too - my friend says they are very good. 

you might want to look at some more 12 or 10 as fills too. 

side note, not sure where you are based and if you are buying new, but in the UK atm it’s quite hard to find secondhand S218 at all...


Posted By: teeth
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 9:27am
and to answer your question, double 12s is the way to go, but you are going to get comb filtering as the throw is so wide. i’m not sure how much rotating the horn reduces this but you’ll definitely want to do that 


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by PISSHEAD PISSHEAD wrote:

ASS MX 600 --100KG per box


Yep, if you want some of the best Mid tops ever made, get some Weetabix first.

In install, is not an issue.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 10 August 2022 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Soundscape Soundscape wrote:

To Levyte - what drivers are you using in your BSX copies and what amps are you driving them with please? And what amps for your ASS MX600's?


Couldn't find any PD186MK1, so got some new 18sound 18LW2420s.

They started playing warmer once run in, was considering 18TBX100s or Fane Primes.

The BSX are no where near as large as Gsub, so need drivers happier in smaller volumes.

PL380 on sub, driving 1x 218 per channel.
Venue has proper power, so could probably drive 2x 2x18s per channel.

MX600s loaded with 16 ohm drivers, had PL4 driving 2x 12s per channel, and thought it sounded OK, then for a giggle put them on PL380, then pile of low  mid frequencies appeared from nowhere, and gave mic real full bodied vocals.

So now PL4 relegated to 1x16 ohm 2" compression driver per channel, will soon be 2x per channel, and PL380 will soon be powering 4x 16 ohm 12s per channel.

No substitute for headroom !!


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 11 August 2022 at 8:07am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

The BSX are no where near as large as Gsub, so need drivers happier in smaller volumes.


Wrong way round - the BSX is 1145 x 570 x 760 for 496 litres gross volume, Gsub is 1136 x 536 x 670 for 408 litres gross external.

BSX Specs:  https://martin-audio.com/downloads/datasheets/BSXdatasheet.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://martin-audio.com/downloads/datasheets/BSXdatasheet.pdf


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 11 August 2022 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by DMorison DMorison wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

The BSX are no where near as large as Gsub, so need drivers happier in smaller volumes.


Wrong way round - the BSX is 1145 x 570 x 760 for 496 litres gross volume, Gsub is 1136 x 536 x 670 for 408 litres gross external.

BSX Specs:  https://martin-audio.com/downloads/datasheets/BSXdatasheet.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://martin-audio.com/downloads/datasheets/BSXdatasheet.pdf


Well strangely, The BSX seem really small as 218s to me.

I don't rate 218 reflex due to lack of efficiency, but FOH Engineer stipulated no Scoops of any form, and could not find any decent Gsubs, in the time frame.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: knet94
Date Posted: 11 August 2022 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by DMorison DMorison wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

The BSX are no where near as large as Gsub, so need drivers happier in smaller volumes.


Wrong way round - the BSX is 1145 x 570 x 760 for 496 litres gross volume, Gsub is 1136 x 536 x 670 for 408 litres gross external.

BSX Specs:  https://martin-audio.com/downloads/datasheets/BSXdatasheet.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://martin-audio.com/downloads/datasheets/BSXdatasheet.pdf


Well strangely, The BSX seem really small as 218s to me.

I don't rate 218 reflex due to lack of efficiency, but FOH Engineer stipulated no Scoops of any form, and could not find any decent Gsubs, in the time frame.

Nothing strange at all Lev. A lot of 2x18" reflex subs are 1220mm high. Mine are 1230mm high x 555W and 763D so quite a bit bigger than the BSX.



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