What size Amp?
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Topic: What size Amp?
Posted By: SnailSpace
Subject: What size Amp?
Date Posted: 08 December 2022 at 11:27am
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Hello everyone, Before I ask any questions I’ll let you know where I’m at - I’m currently taking the step up from what would be called a mobile/home DJ set up to a (Jamaican/Dub/Reggae) stack style Sound System for small venues. I’m doing it on a budget and have some gear already and all speakers and boxes, the info/knowledge I’m looking to learn is more based around amps/wiring etc so I don’t blow either my amp or speakers and I get the best out of what I have. I’m not really looking for changing anythin I have ‘it is what it is’ speaker wise the only thing I will be adding is an amp, maybe a rack crossover (if I have to), adding speakon and learning how to wire in best configuration. Rack: Rack Mixer Gemini pre amp QSC GX3 - 300w at 8ohm/425w at 4ohm (continuous both driven) Tweeters: (to be put in there own box) X4 RX22 (Horn) 8ohm X2 Fane J.104 (Horn) 8ohm 100 X2 Altai mht-392 (Horn) 8ohm 40w X2 Arrow PCT 1000 (Piezo) 150w (Not sure if mixing various tweeters is a good idea, Will they need crossovers in the box which I have or if they will need a dedicated amp given the amount/size?) Mid: X4 Jamo 265 (12”) 150w long 265w short (I presume my QSC GX3 will be enough for these?) Bass: x4 Peavey Black Widow (15” taken out of original boxes and mounted in dedicated boxes x4) They are 500w continuous/1000w program/2000w peak (I understand that they should be ran at 500w but I should have an amp of 1000w) so does this mean I should have a dedicated amp of 4000w? So my first question will be given what I have what amp/amps do I need to add? I’ve been looking at the QSC 3602 PLX? Is this big enough for my bass section or would I need x2? (Also considered a inuke6000 or Rockville 5000?) Please speak to me like the newbie that I am as some of the more technical language is lost on me! Thanks in advance |
Replies:
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 08 December 2022 at 4:33pm
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What model are the PV Black Widow? There were about 1/2 dozen different versions made and most were only good for mid-bass. What kind of boxes were they transferred to? If they are bigger that effectively reduces the drivers power handling. If you have one of the better drivers then 500w per will fully power them... may even overpower them on bass duty, so a single PLX3602 would suffice. You don't need all those tweeters, 1 rx22 per stack is plenty to outrun the rest of the rig. Yes you need a rack crossover, a DSP based unit gives you all the tools necessary to crossover and EQ the system and provide at least basic driver protection with individual limiters. A purist may want a full analog system but you would need a whole rack full of gear to do the same job as a single DSP processor.
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 08 December 2022 at 5:51pm
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Thanks for the reply! I’ve been struggling with the knowledge of process the vast amounts of technical information for a newbie is confusing. The Black Widows are from HiSYS 2 RX (1508-4 SPS BWX SPKR) I got given x2 for free then another pair on the cheap so I had a balanced system and I also had some boxes with 15” 150w in so swapped out, as you say they are bigger than the original Peavey boxes and true they aren’t really dedicated bass speakers but as I say I’m doing everything on a budget and will eventually upgrade to better boxes, dedicated bass speakers and then sell the BW or use them in the Mids. So are you saying the amp needs to be between 2000w to 4000w? I need an amp for 4x500w to 4x1000w? Also are sound system rigs generally connected in series when in one stack? Do you know the rating of the rx22’s? And why do you say only x1 per stack would the other horns make the system too high and would they detract from the RX22’s? Which amp would I run the tweeter box through? Would I bridge it into the GX3 or PLX3602? |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 08 December 2022 at 6:26pm
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You need a 3-way crossover or DSP to split the system into bass, mid & top. The PLX3602 is fine to power the Black Widows. 2 per channel in parallel. The GX3 for the mid (Jamos). Again, 2 per channel in parallel. For the tops, you need to find another amp. Something around 200W per channel will be fine. Use the best quality drivers you have. Maybe the Altai? And throw away the piezos!!  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 08 December 2022 at 7:28pm
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Thanks Earplug makes sense: 160 W peak, 80 W program, 40 W continuous I presume the ratings for the others is continuous rating: X2 Fane J.104 (Horn) 8ohm 100w X2 Altai mht-392 (Horn) 8ohm 40w As Conanski says I may well use the RX22 as there’s x4. I have read that some people put crossovers in the tweeter boxes to protect them? Is this necessary when they are split into them a box and using a crossover/dsp? I do have them as they came from boxes of speaker/tweeter mix? What (affordable second hand / decent entry level) 3 way crossover / dsp do you reccomend? |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 12:02am
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SnailSpace wrote:Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 12:20am
I'm just looking at these.. are those 12's from the Jamo D265 hifi speaker? If so they won't really do mids that well and won't get very loud.. at least not by PA standards anyway. If that is the case you may be forced to rethink this whole rig... put the PV 15's on low-mid duty where they belong and come up with somthing else... (like some 18's) for sub duty.
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 8:57am
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[/QUOTE] Despite the power rating those won't really handle much bass with only 2.3mm xmax. And those are also 4ohm drivers so 2/ch will be a 2ohm load on the amp if wired in parallel... which is what happens if two boxes are just linked together. What is 2.3 xmax? As I say I’m not great with technical specifics. Plus it will be x4 boxes linked together in parallel? (X4 Black Widow?)
[/QUOTE] Given everything above you don't need any more power for the 15's than the PLX can deliver, in fact you have more than they can handle on dedicated bass. So I could risk blowing them with this amp? Is there a more suitable size amp? [/QUOTE] The specs are acailable online. Like most compression drivers these have a much higher sensitivity than low and mid drivers... 107dB vs 96-99dB, and that means they don't need much power to get very loud. For example if you have 500w going to a sub and 250w to a mid, a CD may only need 25-50w to play at the same sound level. Thanks this makes sense. |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 9:01am
I will eventually get some 18s for subs and use PV for mid/low but for now ‘it is what it is’ and more about the learning which is what I am doing now (thank you iagain! Responses are getting me to understand what I have and how it will work)
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 9:03am
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So ehat (affordable second hand / decent entry level) 3 way crossover / dsp do you reccomend?
How should I wire the PV BW 15” x 4 into amp? Is there a more suitable amp for the PV’s for when they do go to mid duty so I’m not over spending on the PLX3602 (or will that come in handy for sub duty later down the line anyway?) are the inukes any good at half the price when they do come up for sale? Just missed a batch on eBay. Are the prices/ experiences of buying good on here in for sale section?
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Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 9:24am
The best entry level DSP is definitely the Behringer DCX2496. Well worth the money. Analogue xovers depend on where you are and the market there. Too many around to really recommend one, other than if you go that way, get one with variable crossover frequencies and a phase button in order to flip the phase if needed, but really, go for the DCX. If the 15's are 4 ohm (have you got a multimeter to check?), then just put them in series. 2 per channel as mentioned before. With the PLX3602 amp. It will be fine. To simplify, Xmax is the (usable) travel of the cone assembly. 2.5mm is very little for bass. Some of the (silly) car audio bass drivers can have (or claim) 20mm or more... iNukes - a bit of a lottery,really. Some seem to last ok, others barely get past their guarantee!  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 10:39am
Thanks I’ll look into crossovers. I read that the problem with the inuke had been resolved and the newer ones were solid. But as I have QSC and know it’s quality im drawn to stay with QSC. Konanski “those are also 4ohm drivers so 2/ch will be a 2ohm load on the amp if wired in parallel” They say 4ohm on them but did Konanski not mean that when you link 4x4ohm speakers in parallel the becomes 2ohm, I may be wrong in my interpretation http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm - http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm
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Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 10:57am
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"They say 4ohm on them but did Konanski not mean that when you link 4x4ohm speakers in parallel the becomes 2ohm," Ok - then definitely 4 ohm. Then put them in series. 2 per side on the QSC. Basic maths:- - in series, 4 + 4 = 8, so each channel "sees" 8 ohm. - in parallel, 4 + 4 = 2. Not too good for the amp... ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 11:24am
Thanks! So when run in series at 8ohm per channel would I refer to the amps specifications/capabilities in ‘bridge mono mode’ or by saying each channel sees 8ohms do I refer to the amps capabilities in ‘stereo mode both channels driven’ so would I be looking at a amp with 1000w per channel in 8ohms in Stereo? I know this is basics but I’m in pre school here dispute being middle aged ha! Konanski also mentions: “Neither, get a small class AB amp in the 150-200w/ch range.” I’ve had a look at these and they are the small box amp things right? Could I not get a smaller rack amp with speakon and use a limiter on the crossover to protect them?
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Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 2:02pm
------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 3:06pm
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“ the QSC amp you already have should be fine“ So are you suggesting I use the QSC GX3 I have for the PV’s x4 and find a smaller or similar size amp for the Jamo x4? And a small amp for Tweeters? Would it not make more sense financially to get a large amp for PV’s and so when I do get subs I could use it rather than have to sell off amps to fund future upgrade? PS I’m not looking to compete with larger Sound Systems out there and I’m not especially into rattling glasses off shelves. Until I started to swap out I had x2 150w 15” McKenzie, x2 150w HH Acoustic 15” & the x4 Jamos and another speaker top box - all going stereo through a speaker splitter which has a max of 150w per channel so that acted as protection for speakers and amp I presume. But it sounded clear, loud and bassy enough for a small space, infact I’ve used the Jamos in a larger venue and they more than filled it with a nice sound. Infact I met the fella who is the speaker designer for Q acoustics when I was a photographers assistant and he actually designed them and really rated them. Now I know they are 90s PA/DJ speakers but they will give me a nice sound for what I need. The whole reason I want to get off the ground on a budget is because there is a distinct lack of sound systems in my area and I want to learn and pass on what I learn, so somethings better than nothing in my opinion. I know that might upset some of the more purists who spend £5k upwards but personally I’m more of a DIY approach. I’d be more than happy taking what I have now to a venue but when I was given the PVs I thought they seemed like a decent addition in taking the next step! |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 3:59pm
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No. Please refer to my first post in the thread:- "You need a 3-way crossover or DSP to split the system into bass, mid & top. The PLX3602 is fine to power the Black Widows. 2 per channel in parallel. The GX3 for the mid (Jamos). Again, 2 per channel in parallel. For the tops, you need to find another amp. Something around 200W per channel will be fine. Use the best quality drivers you have. Maybe the Altai? And throw away the piezos!! "And my mistake -- I thought that you already had the PLX, but the plan should revolve around the above. And the Peavey's in series, not parallel. Simple.  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 4:56pm
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Thanks! Appreciate both of your patience 👍
I tend to agree about the Behringer it’s twice the price of a DBX 234 but suppose its a case of buy once instead of twice
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Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 10:29pm
The DBX234 is a very basic crossover only, you would need it plus a whole rack of gear to match what the DCX can do. The DCX is a fully customizable crossover meaning you can independantly set the type and slope of every crossover filter on each ouput. But that is just the beginning it also has.. - Parametric EQ on every input and output - Time delay and phase alignment on every output. - Adjustable limiters on every output. - Dynamic EQ on every input and output - Automatic delay finder. - 3rd input can be configured as a stereo AES digital interface. - very flexable routing, for ex you can do summed mono lows with stereo mids and highs, or 2-way stereo with a pair of delayed fullrange outputs, or stereo 3-way, or mono 6-way. Pretty much any config you need is available. - Wired remote control PC application. It's right out of the 90's and ideally requires a computer with a serial port.. but it works and is easy to navigate. |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 10 December 2022 at 1:33pm
| Thanks, Looks like I’ve got a lot of learning to do about crossovers! The only thing that puts me off it is that me mention of Serial Ports & PC’s! I don’t have a PC or a serial port! Could possibly use my wife’s work laptop but the connector is £100 alone on Thomann! Wow! Why is connectivity so outdated? |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 10 December 2022 at 2:43pm
| The DCX can be fully configured from the front panel using the built-in display and controls, you don't need a computer to set it up it's just nicer to not have to squint at a small screen. People have also successfully used USB to serial converters to do this with newer computers. |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 10 December 2022 at 2:54pm
Yes and a good example would be the http://https://www.thomann.de/gb/art_sla1.htm" rel="nofollow - ART SLA1 or SLA2 .
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 10 December 2022 at 8:04pm
Great!
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 10 December 2022 at 9:50pm
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Just put it into the calculator and you’re right I looked in the wrong place at 2 speakers instead of 4, 4 said it would be a 1ohm output. What speakers would you use in bridge mode? So what type of Series configuration would I be looking at setting up? Had a look at ART SLA1 & SLA2 thanks (and again was searching something else) out of the need to learn again and the fact they are around £300 - why would I choose this type of amp over something a touch bigger but cheaper if so what would the outcome be? Is it so I’m not over working the amp or the tweeters? Cheers
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 10 December 2022 at 11:25pm
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Found this a good video, after what you’ve been telling me starts to make more sense! https://youtu.be/_uVUIg9k0Xg" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/_uVUIg9k0Xg So I came in and powered up just the Jamos and put on ‘Jimmy Riley - Live It To know it 1975-1985’ and now kind of get why they may confuse the crossover as they probably also have a built in crossover and being the mid section as they are really a bass/mid/high unit in themselves. Any way they are nice as a x4 so it will be interesting as the bass isn’t really bass it’s more mid ha! Anyway it gets me on the right track! It’s starting to make sense as I’ve never really over examined it in this way until splitting boxes into there own job! |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 11 December 2022 at 9:48am
You needed a calculator to work that one out!!??!! You need to connect:-- amp +ve -> speaker +ve. Then speaker -ve to next speaker +ve and finally speaker -ve back to amp -ve. Then repeat for the other channel/pair of speakers, ie. each cabinet will have 2 drivers, with the +ve of one connected to the -ve of the other, with the other contacts going to the amp. Fairly simple... And simplifying a bit, you use bridge mode when the driver/s you have are capable of handling a lot more than the amp provides in normal stereo mode. Or a way amp manufacturers use to exaggerate the specs of their amps! The ART amps are obviously on the high end of the market. For something a bit more reasonable, but still reliable maybe look at the Thomann amps (T-Amps) or even the Behringer stuff, etc. Or something second hand from QSC, Crest, Peavey, etc., etc. EDIT:- The video there shows the basic features of the DCX. All available from the front panel. No need to connect to a PC.  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 11 December 2022 at 12:59pm
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Cheers This calculator ha  https://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm" rel="nofollow - https://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm I still feel like I’ve decided take on a physics project rather than upgrading sound equipment
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Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 11 December 2022 at 2:27pm
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Ok, a picture is worth a 1000 words!! And a B.Sc in Rocket Science does help! ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 11 December 2022 at 2:51pm
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Don’t get me wrong even using that calculator I’d be lying if I said I understand why 4x 4 ohms speakers in parallel give you an impedence of 1ohm and not four? Unfortunately for you I’m that student that takes x29 explanations or an epiphany for something to make sense! I find Audio University are good videos, but this forum and yours ended have been great for giving me the time for the Penny to drop! What type of Sound do you have yourself and what do you use it for?
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Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 11 December 2022 at 6:18pm
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Posted By: Daniel S
Date Posted: 11 December 2022 at 8:42pm
When calculating total impedance for a number of speakers of the same impedance wired in parallel, you take the impedance and divide it by the number of speakers. In this example 4÷4=1. Four 8 Ohm drivers would be 8÷4=2. When wired in series you add the numbers, ie 4+4+4+4=16 You can get an 8 Ohm load with 4*4 Ohm speakers by wiring two and two in series and then wire those in parallel to get ((4+4)+(4+4))÷2=8. ------------- Distortion is evil |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 11 December 2022 at 9:08pm
You messed up something there because two 8ohm loads in parallel = 4ohms.
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 10:09am
Already have boxes I have x4 15” 150w as well as the PV’s as I say I may at later date make boxes but one step at a time. Interested to find why you say don’t use series when earplug reccomended series and you said don’t link in parallel as the amp would immediately shut down? So I presume you’re saying only option left is Stereo and surely that means I have a lot of wires feeding back to amps? When ever I’ve looked at the back of stacks at sessions I’m sure they are linked in parallel or series? Ie linked by one short external cable to each speaker from the other on each section then one cable heading back to amp? Or are they as you say wired different inside rather than just + & - terminals. Are you and Earplug coming from different disciplines meaning different preferences or are you basing your advice on what I have and its capabilities? (I understand what I will be using as mids x4 Jamos are passive speakers and I’m currently reading up on mixing Passive & Active speakers and seems to be ok, not ideal but as I say this is the first steps. Custom boxes/additional speakers/moving around will be another step) I want a one stack approach linked by short cable runs with limited longer runs going back to the amp if possible. Tweeter box - ART Amp or similar (split off & boxed as - active) Mid - Jamos x 4 (ok not ideal as they are - passive) QSC GX3 Amp Bass - BW PV’s x 4 (again not really bass but again boxed as - active) Amp QSC 3602 PLX or similar Crossover
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Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 1:43pm
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You have missed/misunderstood the most important bit:- "I'd also suggest avoiding any series connections UNLESS THEY ARE INSIDE A CAB, " So I'd suggest 2 x 2x15" cabinets, with the speakers wired in series inside. Then 2 cables going back to the amp. One per channel, normal stereo mode. Look at the diagram in the calculator link you posted earlier. It's all there.  And I don't think that Mr. Conanski will disagree there. We are both saying the same thing, albeit in a slightly different way. Canadian English v. The Queen's (King's?) Thingie! ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 1:54pm
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Yeah missed that bit where you also suggested avoiding series too. I don’t have option of putting x2 15” in one cab for now. So does this mean I’m stuck with connecting in stereo as my only option and multiple wires heading to the amp ie a +- from every speaker? So x8 wires from x4 PV’s to one amp, X8 from x4 Jamo to their amp? I’m still confused to why Series/Parallel/Bridged aren’t an option if I have correct Amps? I thought you could wire speakers in series/parallel outside the box? Is this where I’m confused, do most sound systems link within the boxes? So what are the linking cables I’m seeing on the outside? For me I’m trying to limit the amount and long runs of cables on the outside back to the amp or does what I have not allow for that? |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 3:39pm
I said you can't connect 4 speakers together in parallel. You need to slow down and read more carefully because the small details matter.
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Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 3:58pm
| SnailSpace what connectors do you have on the back of your speaker cabinets? Do you have a output/link socket on them as well as the input from the amp? Are the sockets/connectors the same on the back of your cabinetsb or are they random binding posts, speakons, jack's or xlrs? |
Posted By: dj jammin
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 4:01pm
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Sorry to say this but you do need to do a bit of reading up on the basics.. As I understand it, you want to make a 3 way stack, bass, mid, top You are gonna need a way to split the frequencies (an active crossover ie dcx 2496) The crossover will split your signal into bass, mid, tops at the frequencies you choose.. you will then need 3 amps/amp channels.. to power each section. You can still wire up the BW PVs in series (two pairs each wired in series) but you will need to make a special cable or junction box to do this.. The basics you need to read up on are: ohms law and also learn how to make your own speaker cables. The widely used connector being neutrik speakon. ------------- Reverence Sound system |
Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 4:49pm
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And.. Once you have decided on how to wire it up .... Best practice for the low frequency feed to your bass speakers is use the crossover to set slope to LR24 & the hi pass filter at 45hz/50Hz or higher to minimise mechanical damage through over excursion.. ------------- DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs" |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 9:16pm
Yeah apologies totally missed the wording 'inside'!
 Probably dismissed it as you where saying about putting 2 in one box. |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 9:36pm
Yeah I missed the wording again, apologies.
Wired in Parallel Internally?
Sorry yes that's what I meant 3-way passive speakers which I presume will have a little crossover element in with mid & high still connected.
Yes I have a rack with my amp/mixer/pre amp in. I probably explained it wrong. I still want to have my rack one end of the room and the stack of x4, I just want to limit the amount of cables running back to amps from the stack. Which is what you are saying here by saying short 'jumper' cables between the boxes of the same type. I think I presumed series/parallel referred to a way of linking speakers at the back externally. So from what yourself and earplug are saying does this mean series/parallel is a way of linking speakers internally within the boxes? So maybe I should have asked how do I link them with jumper cables? If so what is the configuration of jumper cables? The Jamo boxes currently have Banana Plugs and the PVs have Jacks.(I will switch to Speakon but I imagine Ill do that when I make custom boxes and have used this current reconfiguration as part of the process of upgrading and learning)
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 9:40pm
+- Banana Plug Binding Posts on x4 of Jamo's and +- Jacks on the x4 Boxes with Black Widows in. I will eventually change to Speakon.
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 9:51pm
I have read & watched plenty to do with ohms law etc and its anything but basic and probably why the physics/maths/audio language side of it is taking time to sink in and for the penny to drop. I do understand that I have to split the frequencies and that is the quest I'm on, as I said in original post Im lacking the knowledge of this next step. I can make my own cables, Ive always done my own soldering etc I will eventually make Speakon cables. What tyope of special cable do you mean?
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 12 December 2022 at 10:12pm
Thanks, not quite sure what that means yet but I will definitely refer back to it when I do get to setting up crossover.
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Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 13 December 2022 at 2:37am
Every loudspeaker driver is designed and build with slightly different goals in mind, it depends on a lot of factors like what the intended use is. Smaller midrange and guitar speakers are built with light cones and relatively short voice coils for high efficiency and in the case of guitar speakers they actually want a certain amount of non linear(distorted) response as it adds color to the sound. High power subwoofer drivers have heavier cones to survive more abuse and higher air loads, and the voice coils are longer to control the cone at larger excusrions. The way a speaker works is pretty simple, when the voice coil is exposed to a voltage it generates a magnetic field that pushes or pulls(depending on polarity) against the magentic field created by the permanent magnet mounted around it. If you put a DC voltage on the voice coil ( +to +, - to -) with a 9v battery, the cone moves out and sits there. If you reverse the battery the cone move in and sits there. If you connect an AC voltage(like music) to the voice coil it vibrates in and out and generates sound. Those PV 15's you have are actually built more like guitar speakers with short coils and light cones, what that means is that they won't handle much power at lower frequencies before the motor(voice coil and magnet) loses control of the cone and distortion rises to audible levels. So to combat that a steep low cut filter is used to limit the amount of very low frequency energy it is exposed to. That is a standard thing for most PA subwoofer applications the difference is that the filter is set at a higher frequency for your PV drivers than it would be if you had modern sub drivers.
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 13 December 2022 at 8:17am
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Thanks Konanski - I did think that Peavey where specialist guitar speakers but when the person who gave me the first BW’s said they where good bass speakers I just took it literally but makes sense now he probably meant bass guitar as it was from a live PA set up, I presumed they’d do the job elsewhere. Did you see the earlier response to your post regarding ‘jumper’ cables?
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 13 December 2022 at 10:34am
You mention each cabinet having 2 drivers? Each cabinet will have x1 driver - so can I still use this way of linking/connecting on the exterior ie x2 linked by ‘jumper’ cables with x1 cable going back to channel A, then x2 linked by ‘jumper’ cables with x1 going back to channel B? Conanski referred to it as jumper cables is this what this is? Is Series & parallel for interior wiring/connections or can it be used exterior? Apologies for me missing/miss interpreting info but it’s a while since I’ve been on a forum it takes some getting used to again all the ‘quoting’ etc. plus kids interrupting me ha! |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 13 December 2022 at 11:11am
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"What is this way of connecting/linking boxes on exterior called?" I'd call it a PITA! As already noted, series is really for connecting inside the cabinet, very common in guitar cabs, where you might have 2 or 4 speakers linked up. That could be a mixture of series/parallel, depending on the ohmage of the speakers, eg some guitar speakers are 16 ohm. For PA, it would be more common to have 2 or more cabinets linked (in parallel) with short jumper cables. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 13 December 2022 at 11:59am
I think the penny has finally dropped for me yay  got there in the end!Another question: RX 22 - Tweeters x4 (Can’t find much info on the Fane or Altai I have) https://peavey.com/rx-22-ct-driver/p/03616190" rel="nofollow - https://peavey.com/rx-22-ct-driver/p/03616190 QSC USA Amp 850 https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/qsc/usa-850.shtml" rel="nofollow - https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/qsc/usa-850.shtml Would this QSC amp suit the PV RX22 Tweeters I have? PS does PITA stand for ‘Put It In The Amp’ ha! |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 13 December 2022 at 1:08pm
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The 850 would be perfect for the 22's/HF in general. It's a lovely little amp. PITA:- Put it Where it Fits!! ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 13 December 2022 at 1:18pm
Perfect! Ha I’m on a roll! Such a shame you can’t upload photos/drawings I imagine this conversation may have not been so long ha! So that’s Tweeter Amp, Speakers connected, PV BW amp sorted - I think I’ll give you all Christmas off before I get into the Crossover ha! That does seem like some witchcraft!
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Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 14 December 2022 at 12:20am
Use imgur, imgbb or something similar. Ask Google for picture hosting for forums.
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Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 14 December 2022 at 1:57am
You can but there are limitations to the file size and resolution.  |
Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 15 December 2022 at 11:17pm
Ok as said elsewhere it will help if everything has speakon on it. No idea why your using those jamos. Those are some badly made hifi lofi speakers. Jamo made some truly dodgy stuff and we're so lazy they literally stapled drivers to the chipboard like the dome tweeters on yours. Maybe ok for DJ monitors at a school disco. Sell them to someone who doesn't know any better (misguided nostalgia vaule) and get your self a pair of cheap ev sx300,bargain on eBay etc. Those and the JBL boxes should make your life easier and sound better. Give you a better foundation.
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Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 17 December 2022 at 7:50pm
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Reading all this hurt. An easy into for you into pa world would be to sell your speakers and buy something cheap to get you started. For example, Peavey hysis tops are very cheap, not the best sounding but still cheap. You can also pick up the twin 15 bass bins for next to nothing or look for a pair of single 18 bass bins and a pair of 12 inch tops. You could use a simple crossover for that and not need the more complicated dsp. If you want my opinion, do not buy inuke amps, use the money and buy better second hand amps, like the qsc 3602. Or the older rmx the 2450 would be fine for a pair of single 18's as you could do what you talk about often, run it in bridged mode. Or find a pair of twin15 mid tops and just use those full range for now adding dedicated bass when you can afford it. With the twin 15 you would only need 1 amp and no crossover. Just an eq 1 amp and 1 pair of speakers and they can normally be tweaked to sound ok. Obviously no massive thumping bass, unless you can afford something like the nexo msi tops. But I have not seen any of those since I sold a pair many years ago. ------------- In bass no one can hear you scream! |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 8:45am
preferences/warnings on these, which would you choose? - DBX DriveRack PA, DBX DriveRack 260 or dB-Mark DP28 +. Which I have saw all at a decent second hand price but I have also seen the DBX DriveRack PA2 is IOS/Mac compatible which appeals as it’s what I have, it also has great reviews!I saw the DP-Mark was recommended over the Behringer DCX2496. I was also advised to get a DSP with ‘variable crossover frequencies and a phase button in order to flip the phase’ I can’t see the mention of phase on the DBX drivers lack does it have one? Is it called something else? |
Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 1:22pm
All of those DSP's will allow you to vary the crossover frequency and to flip the polarity of each output if needed. They will all also allow you to delay each output as needed - normally, this plus polarity flip & correct choice of crossover shape and order should be enough to get the phase lined up. A more advanced way to fine tune the phase is with "all-pass filters" (Edit to add: or continuously variable phase control). The Behringer DCX2496 & dB-Mark DP28+ do offer this feature; the 2 dbx models you mentioned do not FWIW. Edit - thanks Smitske!
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Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 1:25pm
| Since when does the dcx offer all-pass filters? |
Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 1:30pm
| Sorry, I was mis-remembering what they call their continuously adjustable phase parameter. Post updated. |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 2:28pm
Thanks! (By the way is there an easier way to Thank people as I see on peoples profiles a thanks counter?)
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Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 3:20pm
| The Driverack PA models have rather limited routing options.. can only do linked stereo pairs, so I'd suggest you eliminate those from consideration. This does not apply to the DR260 or Venue360 models. |
Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 4:04pm
Thanks, shame really that DriveRack PA2 has such good computer compatibility too. May have to be the DR260 as atleast there are videos on YouTube. All the videos for the dB-Mark DP28+ seem to be in Malaysian.
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Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 20 December 2022 at 4:51pm
 (Though you might need to be on a PC rather than a phone to see all of those options.)
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Posted By: SnailSpace
Date Posted: 06 January 2023 at 9:20am
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Ok so after a bit of a break the buying of a dB-Mark 28+ fell through I’m still interested in dB-Mark range just wondering when it comes to the dB-Mark range when they went to ‘+ series’ what where the changes? I can’t see anything too significant. Is the software still out there or will it become obsolete and linked to old Windows now they are no longer in production? Is it the same as old computer hardware or smartphone software where at some point you can no longer run it unless you keep your computer stuck in an old operating system? |