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B&C DE250 vs new DE360?

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Category: General
Forum Name: General Forum
Forum Description: Open Discussion / Questions
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=107644
Printed Date: 18 April 2024 at 8:41pm
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Topic: B&C DE250 vs new DE360?
Posted By: BatteryLow
Subject: B&C DE250 vs new DE360?
Date Posted: 23 January 2023 at 7:22pm
https://static.sonovente.com/pdf/technical/8/8907_de250_8.pdf

https://static.sonovente.com/pdf/technical/72/72922_de360_8.pdf

The DE360 is rated 110db and 35W RMS
The DE250 is rated 108.5db and 60W RMS

The DE360 claims new diaphragm technology with HT polymer, plus has neodimium

People here swear by the DE250, I have bought two but considering changing them to DE360 as I can buy them for the same price

I'm a noob.

1- I want to pair 2 of these with 2x 10" 300w and 1x 15" 400w, both serve me?

2- Which one can go louder?

3- Which one should sound better? I understand the DE360 cause new tech why not

4- Does neodimium offer another advantage apart from weight?

Thank you guys!





Replies:
Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 23 January 2023 at 7:51pm
Sorry for edit:

1) should work well with 10" direct radiator

2) de250 can take 2,3 dB more max. Power, but de360 is 1,5 dB more sensitive, so the overall max output difference is 0,8 dB LOL so about the same. 

De250 max spl 129,29
De360 max spl 128,45

Quick maths........ go to manufacturers page, all the info is there, have a careful read of both datasheets.

De250 goes in theory 0,8(edit) dB louder, and takes more spanking because of slightly larger voice coil, but also rolls steeply off beyond 16 kHz (most people won't notice). 

De360 has no peaks or  severe roll off all the way up to 20 kHz.  But it has a gentle roll off above 10 kHz, about 5 dB, but thats ok. 

If you don't intend to spank your speaker too much, and are curious about better quality i'd try the de360. Should sound a little bit smoother, even if you can't hear the rolloff of the de250.

In theory, the de250 coil might thermally tolerate a small margin of extra abuse. 

Oh, and you have to cross the de360 a little bit higher than the de250



Posted By: BatteryLow
Date Posted: 23 January 2023 at 8:21pm
Thanks for the answer.

I should read aboth dB, being a beginner it's what I should started reading xD

I mean you say max output differend is 0.8db but de250 goes 1,5 louder? Do you mean at max RMS each?


Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 5:22am
Originally posted by BatteryLow BatteryLow wrote:

Thanks for the answer.

I should read aboth dB, being a beginner it's what I should started reading xD

I mean you say max output differend is 0.8db but de250 goes 1,5 louder? Do you mean at max RMS each?

Yes, I meant at max rms, but the 1,5 was a rough guesstimate, doing the actual math the difference was only 0,8 dB. If the program power rating of the de360 was 10 w less (60w), the difference would be 1,5 dB. 

Check sengpielaudio for dB calculators and general information about (electro)acoustics and the associated maths

The difference in outcome (max spl output) is negligeable. You won't notice it. Its more likely there will be differences in subjective perception of the sound, due to differences in distortion, and the different frequency responses. 


Posted By: Besa
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 7:04am
I think the de360 will worth a try because I work in a club in wich are installed 4 bins of 2-way speaker at the corners of the rooftop and I don’t like the sound of the de250 at club-level volume.
De250 may sound OK at lower volume but when you feed them with power it starts to sound harsh with lot of distortion  


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 8:50am
Originally posted by Besa Besa wrote:

I think the de360 will worth a try because I work in a club in wich are installed 4 bins of 2-way speaker at the corners of the rooftop and I don’t like the sound of the de250 at club-level volume.
De250 may sound OK at lower volume but when you feed them with power it starts to sound harsh with lot of distortion  


Very suprised to hear 1" being used in a club, as main Compression driver.

I  would have specified nice sounding 2", for 1.8khz to 11hkz, then 1" for 9khz and above.

Also, correct horn selection for compression drivers, is absolutely vital.


-------------
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 9:49am
what frequency are the de250s covering, and what else is in the box with them?


Posted By: kipman725
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 12:11pm
Polymer diaphragms will soften when run at high power, generally recommended to use metal diaphragm drivers for sustained high power use.  However polymer diaphragms are usually less resonant and smoother sounding for lower power use (hence the popularity of the DE250 for Hi-Fi). 

the DE360 is an annular ring diaphragm driver giving it excellent HF sensitivity and extension:
https://www.toutlehautparleur.com/diaphragme-b-c-pour-de36-et-de360-8-ohm-cosses.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.toutlehautparleur.com/diaphragme-b-c-pour-de36-et-de360-8-ohm-cosses.html
Annular rings have a very different phase plug design to dome drivers so are not excursion limited by the phase plug distance from the diaphragm but by the diaphragms 'suspension' (often the diaphragm itself) or the magnet structure.

whereas the DE250 uses a dome diaphragm:
https://www.sonovente.com/en-gb/b-and-c-mmdde2508-p62598.html?c=Structure" rel="nofollow - https://www.sonovente.com/en-gb/b-and-c-mmdde2508-p62598.html?c=Structure
this has a greater surface area and therefore allows the driver to be crossed lower and as the voice coil is larger also handle a bit more power.  However the HF efficiency isn't as high and the driver rolls off earlier.  This earlier roll off is probably a compromise to increase the driver phase plug gap enough to have a low crossover point.  The gap is required for diaphragm excursion but also forms a low pass filter.  



Posted By: Besa
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

what frequency are the de250s covering, and what else is in the box with them?

They are in HKaudio IL15.1 speakers, they cover 2kHz - 20kHz
I don’t know if the horn is the best choice.


Posted By: BatteryLow
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 2:05pm
Thanks for the answer guys, anyways I keep being not sure about the change or not

Maybe I'll stick to the DE250 just because everybody knows it


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Besa Besa wrote:

Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

what frequency are the de250s covering, and what else is in the box with them?

They are in HKaudio IL15.1 speakers, they cover 2kHz - 20kHz
I don’t know if the horn is the best choice.


You won't hear much abve 16khz, if you are running them below 3khz..

Best horn I have heard them on, is the B&C alum ME45.


-------------
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: BatteryLow
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 6:13pm
https://static.sonovente.com/pdf/technical/28/28717_h1-9040p.pdf

I bought this one for the DE250, they say in here it's a very good cheap one, my intention is to make a mold of it and make it cast aluminium xD

Soooooo keep the DE250 guys? LOL


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 24 January 2023 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by BatteryLow BatteryLow wrote:

https://static.sonovente.com/pdf/technical/28/28717_h1-9040p.pdf

I bought this one for the DE250, they say in here it's a very good cheap one, my intention is to make a mold of it and make it cast aluminium xD

Soooooo keep the DE250 guys? LOL


Just making it aluminium, won't automatically make it sound good..


-------------
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.



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