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Best for Crown Macro-Tech 5002VZ

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Category: General
Forum Name: Amp Forum
Forum Description: The 'Stopping Jake Fielder moaning constantly' forum description...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=107925
Printed Date: 29 November 2023 at 6:11pm
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Topic: Best for Crown Macro-Tech 5002VZ
Posted By: kanalogue23
Subject: Best for Crown Macro-Tech 5002VZ
Date Posted: 01 June 2023 at 9:38pm
Hello there everybody! Thanks for this great opportunity to learn about my good old freshly bought MA5002.
So i am wondering how is the best way to use and wire up this amp?! For the moment i have 2 Fane Colossus 18xs 4 ohm drivers(1200w@4 ohm) loaded in Cb-18 Cyclops enclosures. Here is no problem at all running them in stereo one per channel... but i am on my way into having 4 of these beasts, four 4 ohm speakers,1200w each in 4 separate Cb-18's. What is the best way to drive those from my MA5002Vz? I am looking for advice regarding wiring them in stereo mode or parallel mono mode, VZ switches position, sensitivity switch... I have the international version with wingnuts, in parallel mono mode do i need to add the 14 gauge to the positive? Many thanks to anybody who'll get the time to teach me!!!



Replies:
Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 01 June 2023 at 10:28pm
Just put two cabs/drivers on each channel and off you go. You could put three on each and still get good results. The old macrotechs are real power Clap


Posted By: billso
Date Posted: 02 June 2023 at 8:41pm
Sticking 3 4ohm bass drivers on any amp chanel does not sound like a good idea to me. 
It could possibly be ok with 2 but I wouldn't do it.


Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 03 June 2023 at 12:15am
go easy on the old girl, unless you have a new old stock unit. Or deep pockets


-------------
Kevin

North Staffordshire



Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 03 June 2023 at 7:30am
Originally posted by billso billso wrote:

Sticking 3 4ohm bass drivers on any amp chanel does not sound like a good idea to me. 
It could possibly be ok with 2 but I wouldn't do it.

We used to run three dual 18 BR loaded with beyma 18g550-8, of each channel. Thats three 4ohms loads each channel.

Not a problem. The trusty MA5002 got hot. Like Hot! But not ones did we encounter any issues. Sure, if we really needed to run flat out, we rolled out two amps with eight subs. But it is absolutely doable. 

And for what I know, both our old MA5002 amps are still running.

First of all, you need to keep that old girl clean.....!!!!!
Second, let the amp breath easy. Don't cram it into a small rack and seal it up with blind panels. 
Give it one or two units of space above and below. And if you really want to make it a clean rack closed up with panels, then use vent panels and maybe a couple of highspeed fans to help remove that heated air. 

As stated above, we never ones had a issue Thumbs Up


Posted By: kanalogue23
Date Posted: 04 June 2023 at 8:33am
So you ran 3x4 ohm subs in stereo mode? Maybe that's a reason why the amp got hot in the first place, as far as i know driving very low impedance requires parallel mono.


Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 04 June 2023 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by kanalogue23 kanalogue23 wrote:

So you ran 3x4 ohm subs in stereo mode? Maybe that's a reason why the amp got hot in the first place, as far as i know driving very low impedance requires parallel mono.

Yes we ran 3 (three) 4ohm subs on each channel. About 1,33ohms as i remember.
And we were not the only ones doing it. I could name a few who did it too.
Worked just fine, as long as the heat could get out. 



Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 04 June 2023 at 10:51pm
if you run a crown MA series outside its parameters then the odep will over-ride what you're doing and simply go to gain reduction until it's back in its safe operating area. Assuming it's properly calibrated and every part is in 100% perfect condition.



-------------
Kevin

North Staffordshire



Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 16 June 2023 at 10:02pm
1.3r in stereo mode is overkill for any MacroTechs...will work but with the odep limitation and acting as a heat generator,we are in 2023 and people still cannot read a damn user manual for an 20+ years old amplifier....and still cannot understand the fact that high temperatures reduce dramatically the lifespan of the output transistors...i have 12 Macro's and zero failures so far in the last 8 years,i use them mostly in 4r stereo,and maybe once in 2-3 years i use couple of them in full range duty 2r stereo,so stop torturing amplifiers before is to late and start crying after there gone for good or in hundreds of pounds of parts list and repairs.

-------------
EmPro Audio


Posted By: kanalogue23
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 12:24am
Originally posted by EmPro EmPro wrote:

1.3r in stereo mode is overkill for any MacroTechs...will work but with the odep limitation and acting as a heat generator,we are in 2023 and people still cannot read a damn user manual for an 20+ years old amplifier....and still cannot understand the fact that high temperatures reduce dramatically the lifespan of the output transistors...i have 12 Macro's and zero failures so far in the last 8 years,i use them mostly in 4r stereo,and maybe once in 2-3 years i use couple of them in full range duty 2r stereo,so stop torturing amplifiers before is to late and start crying after there gone for good or in hundreds of pounds of parts list and repairs.


So what are you saying here is that i'd rather swap the drivers for 8 ohm in order to run 4 in stereo mode(meaning a total 4 ohm per side/channel). That is why i am searching for practical information about this amp(like wiring it in parallel mono for international version in order to run low impedance+switches position), i've read the manual but it is not very specific in some cases... anyways i know that any amplifier shouldn't run in less than 4 ohm in stereo mode.


Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 3:23am
Read the manual thoroughly! Particularly in regards to the Load/Limit Indicators.

Over analyzing an amplifier that was the standard in the touring industry 30 years ago as if it is going to collapse if/when it face a low impedance load contradicts every owner's user experience pertaining the Macro-Tech 5000vz

Best Regards,    


-------------
Elliot Thompson


Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 8:05am
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Read the manual thoroughly! Particularly in regards to the Load/Limit Indicators.

Over analyzing an amplifier that was the standard in the touring industry 30 years ago as if it is going to collapse if/when it face a low impedance load contradicts every owner's user experience pertaining the Macro-Tech 5000vz

Best Regards,    

This is precisely what I am saying. Myself and many other users I know of who have pushed these old girls hard and with low imp loads, know what they can do without wrecking anything. So to all those who haven't been there but simply speak from what the manual say, stop trying to teach me/us otherwise. It is tried, tested and found working like a charm. These amps are build like the old pyramids. Gonna last forever!


Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 8:48am
Let me make this crystal clear,any macrotech will work even in dead short with some sound on the outputs,the main reason why they do that without blowing up like most of other amps do is because of the clever limiter control of the output stage ODEP stands for (Output Devices Emulation Protection) so basically this circuit track in real time the temperature of the heatsinks where the O/P are located and limit the current they drive to a safe operating area as the temperature goes up,so basically when you use the amp in such a low impedance it is working but will produce a lot of heat and is not performing as it should as the ODEP is always active to keep the amplifier runing,so in order to fully enjoy your Macrotech you need to respect the minimum load impedance on the outputs,driveing in 4R stereo you will have good improvement,plenty of headroom and no limitation as you have now,so basically will sound way better,most of people think that going down and down in impedance will have more and more power,in most of the case is working with other amplifiers untill they blow up due to thermal run away or exceeding SOA,with macros is quite opposite,going down and down in impedance you will loose a lot of power,you need to understand that the heat from the radiators is a part of the power you should have it in the speakers...but in such low load is converted into heat...if you are happy with that use it like that,and no,it will not work forever,eventually the ODEP will be decalibrated and the amp will blew up like fireworks,also the output devices running hot almost to there destruction will get serious internal damage and loose the Hfe badly untill blows up,i've seen hundreds of Macros 5000vz,5002vz blown up badly exactly because of that,i have a lot of friends that have same original amplifiers with totally different sound from them drived by same distribution unit and they scratched there heads why some of them are ,,louder'' then others,they swap speakers cabs,cables etc etc no effect,the reason is that the amplification factor of those amplifiers is different because there output devices had different lifes...ones drived hard and trashed and others not,now you can guess wich one performs better then others Wink same thing happens to speaker coils when drived hard and high temperatures occurs,you will loose forever good amount of Db from that speaker...it will work after? yes will do,it will perform!? No,never again!

-------------
EmPro Audio


Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 12:54pm
That's a lucid explanation of the ODEP system. Thanks EM!


Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by Lucasdude Lucasdude wrote:

That's a lucid explanation of the ODEP system. Thanks EM!
That's the most basic explanation about ODEP i can provide for anyone to understand the basic function of it,in reality is far more complex then that,and is the only reason why we see MacroTech's keep playing around these days,after 30+ years,however the 5000vz series are the most trashed and blown up amplifiers from the rest of MacroTech's series,unfurtunately a lot of 5000vz series have the outputs already replaced with MJ-s not matched and the amplifiers performance is done for good,the reliability and performance of any Macros relyes in matched outputs and perfect calibration of the: Bias,Odep and CMR,what i'm tying to explain is the fact that any amplifier can be fixed no problem,but an amplifier made with matched output devices such as Macro's will perform only with matched devices....so anyone wanna buy 2.000 transistors at 5£ one piece to see how many we can match!?!?....yeah...f_ck that indeed,so we better don't trash our amps if we need them.


-------------
EmPro Audio


Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 4:12pm
Anyone mention that crown shouldn't make traffic lights? Red odep light means good. No red light during operation, no drivers. Bright green signal light means clip. Tongue


Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by KDW32 KDW32 wrote:

Anyone mention that crown shouldn't make traffic lights? Red odep light means good. No red light during operation, no drivers. Bright green signal light means clip. Tongue
Speaking of...i replaced the diffused red led's with blue ones in odep indicators,looks way cooler like that LOL


-------------
EmPro Audio


Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 4:43pm
Anyone up for a limited 2402? Clap
Never been switched on. What a sexy piece of gear!!

https://www.dba.dk/crown-macro-tech-2402/id-508607015/


Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 5:24pm
Jesus...that's a lovely MacroTech....i have one 2401 Big smile

-------------
EmPro Audio


Posted By: shaun1264
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by EmPro EmPro wrote:

Let me make this crystal clear,any macrotech will work even in dead short with some sound on the outputs,the main reason why they do that without blowing up like most of other amps do is because of the clever limiter control of the output stage ODEP stands for (Output Devices Emulation Protection) so basically this circuit track in real time the temperature of the heatsinks where the O/P are located and limit the current they drive to a safe operating area as the temperature goes up,so basically when you use the amp in such a low impedance it is working but will produce a lot of heat and is not performing as it should as the ODEP is always active to keep the amplifier runing,so in order to fully enjoy your Macrotech you need to respect the minimum load impedance on the outputs,driveing in 4R stereo you will have good improvement,plenty of headroom and no limitation as you have now,so basically will sound way better,most of people think that going down and down in impedance will have more and more power,in most of the case is working with other amplifiers untill they blow up due to thermal run away or exceeding SOA,with macros is quite opposite,going down and down in impedance you will loose a lot of power,you need to understand that the heat from the radiators is a part of the power you should have it in the speakers...but in such low load is converted into heat...if you are happy with that use it like that,and no,it will not work forever,eventually the ODEP will be decalibrated and the amp will blew up like fireworks,also the output devices running hot almost to there destruction will get serious internal damage and loose the Hfe badly untill blows up,i've seen hundreds of Macros 5000vz,5002vz blown up badly exactly because of that,i have a lot of friends that have same original amplifiers with totally different sound from them drived by same distribution unit and they scratched there heads why some of them are ,,louder'' then others,they swap speakers cabs,cables etc etc no effect,the reason is that the amplification factor of those amplifiers is different because there output devices had different lifes...ones drived hard and trashed and others not,now you can guess wich one performs better then others Wink same thing happens to speaker coils when drived hard and high temperatures occurs,you will loose forever good amount of Db from that speaker...it will work after? yes will do,it will perform!? No,never again!


Absoluty spot on. 

I once was called to a setup which had a Crown Power Tech 1 (grounded bridge) complaint was distortion after about an hour and amp getting hot.  Nothing wrong with amp but a full on dead short in the cable!

You are better off running the amp over 4ohms each channel to maximise damping factor.  Use nice 4mm cable and not too long.  The bass will be incredible and tight.


Posted By: shaun1264
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 5:31pm



The last of the Anniversary Limited Edition Macro-Tech 5002 coming off the production line.  Personally signed by Gerald Stanley.


Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by shaun1264 shaun1264 wrote:


The last of the Anniversary Limited Edition Macro-Tech 5002 coming off the production line.  Personally signed by Gerald Stanley.

I can only dream to own one of those Confused


-------------
EmPro Audio


Posted By: FOO
Date Posted: 17 June 2023 at 6:22pm
I had one slipping thrue my fingers. It's was either the amp (still in the box), or a set of JBL studio monitors. I went with the monitors. Sometimes i regret LOL


Posted By: kanalogue23
Date Posted: 19 June 2023 at 2:33am
Originally posted by FOO FOO wrote:

Anyone up for a limited 2402? Clap
Never been switched on. What a sexy piece of gear!!

https://www.dba.dk/crown-macro-tech-2402/id-508607015/

I felt very lucky to find 2 pieces of MacroTech, a 5002 and 2402, simply lovely workhorses, i am on my way into buying a third MA3600VZ to complete the rack!


Posted By: kanalogue23
Date Posted: 19 June 2023 at 2:35am
Originally posted by shaun1264 shaun1264 wrote:




The last of the Anniversary Limited Edition Macro-Tech 5002 coming off the production line.

That's some amazing piece right there!! Congrants



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