I'm new person there, i try find similar topic but i couldn't find. Could anyone else tell me - what do you think about put Precision Device 185c003 to this bin (mogale super scooper)? Do you maybe hear this driver in action ? What would you choose between PD 1852/2 or Pd 185c003?  I heard few others driver in this bin, but not exaclly this. I would love to have them in stack with 4 scoops. 

Thanks in advance.

Think you'll find the Superscooper 18 chamber, is too small for that driver, to efficiently provide low notes down to 40hz.

Doc says that driver is a combnation of the old PD1850, and PD1851.

Would "strongly" suggest, this cab, instead.

https://forum.speakerplans.com/fane-scaled-up_topic74640_page2.html" rel="nofollow - https://forum.speakerplans.com/fane-scaled-up_topic74640_page2.html

I know the PD1852s very well, and would definitely choose it over this driver.

I designed a Scoop, for the PD1852 and similar modern drivers, and was very pleased with results.

PD1850 was a waste of time, in the "unmodified" Superscooper 18.

DubHouse wrote: so the think is - that i have already done 2 scoops bin - so there is no option to change chamber inside. Think is - that I will have 4 scoops bin and i would love to play on it 27-75hz. I heard 1852 in this combination and it plays very very well - but i would have more - and i'm think if it is possible, also they are little cheeper than 1852. So you think that 185c003 is not good choose and better is to choose 1852 ?

First of all, forget about playing 18" Scoops, down to 27hz, you will waste money reconing drivers, every gig.

There is a difference between a driver playing in a box, and a driver perfectly mated to the right cab, playing effortlessly smooth, low and loud.

PD1852 in the right cab, "properly" powered, never fails to impress. There is no talk of "wanting more".

The PD1852 will not do this in "unmodified" Superscooper 18.

Best driver I ever heard in "standard" Superscooper 18, is the Void V18-1000.

Only thing I can suggest to you, is sell your 2x Super18s you have built, and build the cab I suggested,

Will work with many more drivers.

Cut your losses, don't fall for sunken cost fallacy, build something else, even if it hurts. Listen to Levyte, he knows damn well what he is talking about! 

Super scoop with V18-1000 is capable of at least 3dB more compared to PD186, depends on the version, too, but this is a very very bad driver for a scoop if you compare this one with higher motor strenght and higher electrical damping drivers, as its running out of steam at 500W mechanically.

If he is keeping the Super18s he built, he'll need to do homework regarding drivers that perform well in <50L Scoop chamber.

Obviously the number 1x candidate here is the Void V18-1000.

Feedback on the Forum, confirms B&C 18TBX100 also plays well in the cab, but with BL=25, and Xmax=9mm, don't expect the building shaking performance.

4x V18-1000, powered by Void Inf8mk2 amp, in Superscooper 18 cabs, tuned by right pre-amp, will provide shocking sub depth and SPL, but by nature of the cab, sub "sweet spot", will probably be about 20M distance.

One more question. Could i have 2 classic super scoop bins and 2 modified?

If i set it in configuration CMMC which mean (c- classic/ m - modified) it will play good ? 

sorry, have to disagree with  your claim that supers and polar bears are "the same shit"!

I don't claim to know the "top scoops", but your way of trash talking polar bears is unqualified. In the thread you linked there is not even a direct comparison  between super and polar

Polars are larger, and the internals are different. Standard supers choke and create a mushy mess below ~42 Hz, indistinguishable muddyness. I've heard Mikko's original Polars and others, and they do warm and defined 30-40 notes. 

Sinai Sound wrote: Right then Graphs This is 4 x polar bear scoops measured outside Single double 21"

The graph you based your slander on is actually not bad at all if it is half space, flat processing (except for hipass). It slopes gently down 5- 6 dB from 70 Hz to 35Hz. At 35 Hz there is a knee in the response, from there it drops another 4 dB going down to 30 Hz.

So it is 10 db down at 30 Hz. The sublows can be boosted within reason to make up for the apparent sensitivity loss, which is actually caused by increasing impedance, and less amplifier  power being dissipated in that range. 

Stack of supers will be a lot worse.....

After all, how many times has it been discussed how two scoops of same external size will perform very differently, due to the chamber & throat tuning, expansiom rate etc........

I start to sound like Lev 

i dont slay any cabinet, all i am saying is that both designs are not more than 2dB apart, that is physics and everybody who questions that will have a hard time doing so.

There will be no complains for 4x V-18 super scoop or Polar + X, therefore i am not sure why to build double the amount of cabs, might depend on the wood prize..

Edit: The graph of the polar scoops shown in the link has a falling response from 50Hz down, that is a bad subwoofer response and is not desireable. No, one can not EQ much at 50Hz down, as it will raise powerdraw and excursion significantly. 

A subwoofer response should look like the other way round as you want the energy down low not at 60Hz, just like the second graph that is shown in the link as well.

A large 18" Subwoofer should focus on the energy being in the 35Hz range not in the 60Hz range.  

1600W power handling

Kind regards

DubHouse wrote: Ok so i will go to pd 1852/2 as you tell me, it will be better choose.

I am not suggesting PD1852 for Standard Superscooper, would suggest Void V18-1000 or B&C18TBX100 for that.

DubHouse wrote: One more question. Could i have 2 classic super scoop bins and 2 modified? If i set it in configuration CMMC which mean (c- classic/ m - modified) it will play good ?

Having different Scoops/differently loaded Scoops is for novices, who don't understand the problems this causes:

• Either sell the 2x Superscoops you have made, and make 4x of the Mykey "Scaled up Scoops", and load with PD1852s, etc.
  
• Or make 2x more standard Superscooper 18s, and load them "ALL" with Voids.

That's my suggestion.

To obtain maximum SPL, low extension, power handling and control, sophisticated engineer, will always match driver to intended cab, by ear/testing, or shortlist intended drivers, by how well TS Parms match cab chamber, throat.

PD1850 provided legendary historical performance in its time, but put it in the wrong cab, result was mediocre, to awful.

Benelr wrote: Thanks. Do you have any reccomendations on how to roughly match the SPL of 2 v18-1000 loaded super scooopers to the kicks and mids and tops of a sound system? (I know the fine tuning is done at the end)

What I have always done, is time align using LMS, to horn length of the Scoops.

E.g., if Scoop horn length is 2M, and reflex kicks used, delay kicks by 2M.

If Mid tops has 12" front horn flare of 60cm, delay by 140cm, and similiar for the compression driver flare.

Not all will agree, but I did this for years, for many gigs, inside and out, then simply balance SPL from each section, using amplifier gains, LMS limiters per band.

cud be further when we used our supers sumtimes we upset the locals  bournville police on phone  sort it otherwise we will  !! 

Benelr wrote: cheers I was more asking about how to choose the right drivers (kicks, mid and top) and cabinets to match the subs ive chosen.

Match the cabs to venues/crowd sizes, you will typically play.

4x Well built Scoops, loaded with quality 1kw, 30+ BL, 5" VC drivers, and powered by very decent sub amplifier, will cover 4-500 people with sub, 38-90hz.

To match the above, a proven formula is: 
4x ES18s (Elektrikal version) on kick, Fane 18XB1000,
4x MT121s on Midtops loaded with B&C - 12ndl76, Beyma 2" - CP750TI/CP850ND

You will not gain optimum, SPL and projection from the above, without time/delay alignment by LMS.

Im looking about the plan polar bear scoop, do you know where i can find it ? 

Many thanks 

Rémi

Sorry, I would not know where to acquire these plans.

Suggest you start a new thread in Scoop forum, asking the same question.