Small Rig work in progress - Advice needed.
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Topic: Small Rig work in progress - Advice needed.
Posted By: m@d
Subject: Small Rig work in progress - Advice needed.
Date Posted: 12 March 2025 at 7:27pm
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I'm looking for some help and inspiration for a small yet functional system for mostly small (less than 100 people) parties. My existing setup is hobbling along with injuries after lending it to someone who wasn't very respectful, and returned it with a frazzled bass driver. I'm now having a rethink as the setup wasn't ideal for it's use and I'd like to get it right rather than just fix the old setup. Probably best to start off with what I have - Speakers - 4x Tannoy V8 (dual concentric full range speaker) - Planned for top and mid duties, but currently running in full range. 1 x (and 1 broken) Tannoy VS10 bandpass subs. 2 x Warrior Audio 400LF Sub speakers (pretty crappy 15" plastic things that I got cheap to get the system back up and running while I worked out plan b) Like these - https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/warrior-pro-400-lf-bass-speakers-1694678231 Rack - 2 x Chevin Research a500 (for the v8s) 1 x Chevin Research a1000 (for the subs) 1 x Alan & Heath PA12 1 x Tannoy TX1 (totally useless crossover unit that I don't use) The current config is basic, I'm running everything into the desk, and then the mains out to the 2 a500's (for the v8's left and right) and then using the 'mono out' with the built in crossover to the a1000 (for the subs). The plan is to add a little more bottom end, and retain the musical (hifi like) sound of the current setup. I'm not after huge SPL's or gut churning bass, but I want the system to be able to handle many different styles of music (Reggae, Dub, House, Breaks, Funk, Soul etc), ideally at low mid and high volumes, rather than needing to be cranked to get the drivers working. But with a depth and richness to the bottom end, that the current system lacks. The current Warrior Audio subs are shitty plastic things, and I could potentially steal the 15" drivers from these and make significant acoustic gains by putting them in a large cardboard box, but perhaps there's a better use for them in some DIY enclosures? Or scrapping them and building something with bigger 18's.
Any advice or suggestions greatly received. |
Replies:
Posted By: Jan-2T
Date Posted: 12 March 2025 at 8:15pm
Indeed, follow your gut and scrap the crap  With those 8"s I would love to see some nice 15¨ reflex cabs, or even a dual one. In general, the advantage over 18" or more complex cabs is they can play a bit higher, so nice match with the 8¨s Many plans around or fun to adapt/simulate/calculate/design, and manageable to build. My suggestion, you find some secondhand drivers for a budget you're comfortable with. Go for major brands like B&C, Beyma, RCF, eighteen-sound, the likes of those. Usually the price goes up with the power rating, however I have been surprised many times by some lower power speakers, so don't get blinded by those numbers  Check in with the forum if you're not sure if drivers are fit for sub duties. ------------- Music! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 12 March 2025 at 8:28pm
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Thanks Jan. Great advice! Any suggestions for reflex cabs I could consider? I'm not scared of a build, but I'm also in mid house renovation so if I dick about too much on toys distracting myself from proper diy, my wife might start getting grumpy
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Posted By: Jan-2T
Date Posted: 12 March 2025 at 8:56pm
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If you want to keep the speaker options wide open, find a speaker and then select the right cab design for it. Like this you can browse for secondhand speakers, or maybe speakers on sale in a shop. If you're set on a design you should pick the speaker it is designed for, sometimes alternative drivers are suggested but mostly at a small tradeoff. Usually this will lead you to buying new, finding a specific speaker secondhand is more difficult. example of a build over here https://forum.speakerplans.com/first-build-15-inch-sub_topic98485_page1.html?KW=15n630" rel="nofollow - https://forum.speakerplans.com/first-build-15-inch-sub_topic98485_page1.html?KW=15n630 ------------- Music! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 12 March 2025 at 10:30pm
| Thanks again for the great advice. I hadn't really considered such intricate pairing of cab design and driver. I'd only really considered cab volume, power and impedance as factors. Better start doing some more homework! I'll take a proper look at the design you shared. I think the v8's have a round port in each corner too so that might make for a nice aesthetic pairing together! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 13 May 2025 at 6:00pm
| Quick update. I was keeping a keen eye on Facebook marketplace, looking for some suitable cabs. Ended up Picking up a set of Turbosound txd-115 and a set of txd 151 tops for £200. So I got my 15" reflex subs and a set of 15" tops to go with it. Now need to look at amplification as I think the turbos like a bit of overpowering. Any suggestions for a good sub amp with 600w @ 8ohms? |
Posted By: Andylaser
Date Posted: 13 May 2025 at 7:30pm
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200 notes for those is a nice result. :)
------------- "music so loud, that if we move in next door to you; your lawn will die" - Lemmy |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 13 May 2025 at 10:02pm
| Yes I did think it was a good deal. I sold the crappy warrior subs for £90 so worked out well. |
Posted By: BrainlessTekno
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 8:20am
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thats a nice little system for just 200... would take it anytime ------------- BarSick / barsik soundsystem Dont want to toot my own horn but toot toot |
Posted By: Jan-2T
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 11:47am
Nice one! what a bargain  ------------- Music! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 14 May 2025 at 12:02pm
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Yes, I was fortunate that the guy had bought a job lot of kit, and recouped his investment selling other unwanted kit, kept what he wanted and had these spare, so was selling them super cheap. Apparently people were contacting him on facebook offering much more than he listed them for, but as he'd told me I could have them, and I was enroute to collect he let me have them. He was happy to have them gone, and I was more than happy to take them off his hands . Just need to sort an extra amp, as I think the Chevin A1000 will be perfect for powering the 151 tops, and the A500's can power the v8's nicely (will work well as monitors), I just need a beefier amp for the subs, to give them 600w @8ohm. The turbos sound great when using the sub out (100hz crossover) from the mixer, but sound like shite when using the crossover in the cabs, so I need to amp the subs and tops separately.
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Posted By: DJ-Versatile
Date Posted: 15 May 2025 at 7:17pm
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When you can, invest in a half decent DSP. Will allow you to set limiters to protect the speakers, play around with X/over points and EQ. I use a DBmark XCA24+ as I only have a 2 way system, but can use it as mono 3 way if I need too ------------- If you are the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.... |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 May 2025 at 7:25pm
| Funny you say that. I had been looking at the DBX pa2 or the Behringer Ultradrive as a cheaper option. I couldn't really work out if it would be worth the investment, but suspect with a digital crossover and speaker protection it kind of is. |
Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 15 May 2025 at 9:42pm
| The dbmark xca24+ and the berry both have 96k sampling rate. The dbx pa2 has 48k for some reason. Don't buy the pa2. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 May 2025 at 10:34pm
| Thanks for the heads up. Still procrastinating if I really need one. Power amp first priority. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 14 August 2025 at 11:20am
| Resurrecting this old post as things are progressing with this setup, and would really like some advice on driver replacement for the VS10 subs. I've spent a bit more time remodelling the setup to incorporate the new Turbos. So far I've reconfigured the amplification freeing up the Chevin A500's to run in bridged mode (1 per TXD-115 sub) giving around 650w per sub. This frees up the A1000 to run the 151 tops. I've also invested in a digital amp to run the Tannoy kit (they are such sweet sounding speakers with a lovely hifi'esque soundstage I couldn't take them out of service). I've bought an Audac SMQ350 which has 4 channels and lots of control over the input - output mapping, high and low filtering, individual gain control, etc. These amps kick out 350w into 4ohm into 4 channels or 700w into 2 channels bridged, so thought it would be a versatile amp for various configs. I've not cranked it up yet, so can't comment on how it sounds, I've been rather spoilt with the Chevins... The only missing thing is getting the blown VS10 driver replaced. Any suggestions on a suitable 10" driver, greatly appreciated. I'm getting nowhere with Tannoy support, as the driver is unlike anything I can find from other suppliers. It's a very high extrusion driver, which looks more like a home cinema or car sub driver. https://photos.app.goo.gl/25ipNcbt7w63NwYs9 - https://photos.app.goo.gl/25ipNcbt7w63NwYs9 The Band Pass cab is around 30ltrs. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 4:45pm
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Although I'm not surprised that Tannoy isn't interested in helping with asuch an old product, I am a bit surprised that the the 10" driver from the later VSX10BP isn't suitable. I used to install them fairly often in bars and small clubs as the very low profile is handy to squeeze in between or under things. Obviously a sensible HPF is essential for high output especially with turntables or live equipment, but overall I really like the performance of them from 10" drivers. Finding a good replacement driver shouldn't be impossible even if Tannoy don't want to help, unlike my beloved Celestion Substation 10 which is dual voice coil and I've never managed to find a driver that performs like the original! Edit: The Tannoy TX1 is not completely useless. Unlike some other basic 2 way crossovers it does actually allow for full range operation from a pair of main speakers while adding gain control for a summed mono sub channel. The only problem I found with it was that it doesn't provide an HPF for the sub channel or the main output when using it as outlined above. That's not a problem at lower volume levels but it sure can lead to damage it higher ones.
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Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 4:57pm
| Thanks Lucas, I'm really struggling to find anything. The Guys at Blue Aran have nothing suitable, and the guy who someone suggested might be able to replace the burnt out coil won't touch them either due to lack of spares. I did find that they were the same driver that Tannoy used in a home cinema sub, but I can only find one driver for sale and that's in Australia and over £300... Starting to think my search is futile, which is a shame as they are really quite effective subs for such small enclosures with great low bass response (better than my 15" turbos). I did find these - https://www.soundimports.eu/en/grs-10sw-4he.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.soundimports.eu/en/grs-10sw-4he.html but with no info about them, it's a bit of a long shot. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 5:02pm
| This is the one in oz - https://ebay.us/m/b3Anho" rel="nofollow - https://ebay.us/m/b3Anho |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 5:09pm
| That's a fair stack of cash. Bear in mind that you would really need to replace both drivers in a pair if they are not identical. It might be worth asking on a car audio forum as 10" BP cabs are quite popular in that field these days. I would have a good think before spending money though, as that cabinet size and design probably isn't ideal if you're planning to use them mostly outdoors. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 5:26pm
| I wasn't really considering the oz one. Would be great to get the pair back up and running, as they are a useful set of cabs when operational, but one on it's own doesn't really have enough clout. I agree they probably don't have the ideal characteristics for outdoors. To be honest, I'm throwing everything I have at the moment as my rigs going to be running a small marquee/tent at an party in Sept so was hoping to have these back in the mix. Mines the smallest tent (probably 50-60 capacity) out of three so don't need it to be pounding (there's a big reggae soundsystem and a fairly hefty rave rig in other tents). This tents going to be pumping out a bit of soul and funk so don't need to move lots of air. Failing finding anything, I'll sack the Tannoy's off and just use my txd115's. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 5:27pm
| I hadn't thought about car audio. But might be worth exploring, thanks for your input! |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 5:36pm
Don't be dissuaded by the DVC/low impedence of any drivers people might recommend for a BP cabinet. You can easily series wire a pair of 2ohm VCs for a 4ohm total load for example. EDIT: Also, in the car audio world I would suggest dividing any claimed power handing figures by at least 4...
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m@d wrote:Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 5:48pm
| Ha! yes, I take all power handling from that world with a pinch of salt! That's very true with the ohm load I'd not thought about them being predominantly 2ohm. |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 5:50pm
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"'llI sack the Tannoy's off and just use my txd115's". Turbosound TDX115s are bass reflex cabinets, and the Tannoy VS10s are bandpass. Regardless of how you want to move forwards I would recommend you don't mix different types of cabinets together covering the same LF band. Reflex are the easiest type to work with, so if you want to increase the output of the TDX cabs then simply add more of the same type. I can't stress enough though that an HPF is essential for safe operation of a rig. A keen ear can hear MF and HF distortion often before it's too late, but driving LF cabs with frequencies below the tuned frequency will lead to over-excursion.
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Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:08pm
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I'm planning on firing it all up this weekend (and pissing off the neighbours while I tweak a bit). I agree it might not work well together, I was just considering the extra bottom end extension the Tannoy's had over the Turbos thinking it might work together. But I didn't consider that different enclosures might not play nicely together. I'll see how it goes. I've got digital crossover (HP and LP) control (and limiters) for each of the 4 channels on the Audac SMQ350 so that sorts the V8's and the VS10, then my PA12 has a specific 100hz filtered sub output which I'm running the TDX Subs from. the only outputs I'm not filtering is the TDX151 tops as they are full range and have passive crossovers in them. I'm going for a more refined Hifi'esque sound in this tent, it's going to be more about soundstage and clarity over max SPL. |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:32pm
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Bases on your equipment, I would suggest the following.... Bridge the SMQ amp you have to 2 channel from 4 Place the 2 TXD 115 subs TOGETHER in between the 2 TXD 151 tops which should be stand mounted. Connect the 2 bridged channels to each of the 2 subs respectively. Connect the High Output of each sub to the inputs of the 151 tops. Connects the Full Range (unflitered) output of you mixer to the amp. Set only the High Pass Filter on the amp to 40hz for both bridged channels. Place any product with "Warrior" written on it close to the dunnie. Find another small amp to power the 2 Tannoy V8s as DJ monitors.
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:33pm
| A small paddling pool filled with water, around 16kg of ice and 10 slabs of VB is optional but recommended. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:50pm
| Thanks so much for your advice. I'll add that to the mix and experiment tomorrow. I've got 3 chevin amps which are incredible sounding amps which I intend to keep in the setup. I thought the turbos sounded terrible when using the low pass filter out for the subs when I last tried that. Hopefully you're wrong and my original idea of bridging the a500s for the subs pays off (I spent last night making up the cables 😂)I was intending on using the a1000 for the turbo tops as its plenty enough to power them and very hard to beat in sound quality. Thankfully there is someone else running the bar! I'm guessing you're in Oz with the vb reference. I love Australia but there's two things you don't know how to make lager and rum (I'm afraid vb, tooies and bunderberg rum are not for exporting 😂) |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:52pm
| No, I'm in the latest and last UK heatwave but I thought you might be given the link for that driver you provided was in AUD! |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:53pm
| I'm sure the Chevin amps sound great, but I would suggest that without a proper multi band LMS you keep things simple. Good luck! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:54pm
| Nope I'm currently in the UK sun too. The Oz driver link was just because that was the only one I could find for sale in the world! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:56pm
| Thank you so much for your input. I'll let you know how my experiments go tomorrow. |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 6:59pm
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My mistake. Bear in mind that although the 151 top speakers have passive networks inside, that doesn't include high pass.
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Posted By: woody2
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 7:49pm
Have you tried RMJ? http://www.recones.com/index.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.recones.com/index.html
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Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 8:41pm
 Roy's just finished winding me a couple of voice coils. Tannoy got bought by Music Tribe, wonder if that's why they are not being helpful.
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Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 9:05pm
| Ha! I spoke to Roy today. He said he couldn't get the parts. |
Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 9:50pm
Surprised he's just just wound new VC's for ls-1815 for us.
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Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 15 August 2025 at 9:53pm
| Apparently he can't work with drivers with big rubber surrounds. He can't get the parts. Funny though you're the 2nd person today to mention him so he must be the man for the job normally! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 11:05am
So I had a play at the weekend, and experimented with your suggested setup. I'll be honest, the 151 tops sounded harsh and overstated when connected to the subs high output. It didn't feel balanced at all, and lowering the volume to get the tops sounding palatable left the subs sounding a bit too light. I reverted back to feeding the subs from the a1000. I figured an entry level system like this from back in the 80s would never of had any fancy active crossovers and the original drivers are still intact so it's probably not worth getting too caught up in best practice setups. I'm already cutting anything above 100hz this and able to control the gain level independently on a dedicated mono output. I couldn't get my bridged xlr cables to feed a signal to the a500's so I ended up running the 151 tops with a single a500, which seems to be doing the job fine, I don't think they will benefit from any more watts as they begin to get a bit sharp up top when they are really turned up, and the output from the subs starts to get left behind as there's more headroom up top. I played around with speaker position, and actually preferred the 151's sat on top of the subs (4m apart). It seemed to fill out nicely. I then stuck a v8 on top fed from the SMQ and crossed over top limit anything below 100, and then stuck my one functional vs10 in the middle feeding that only between 35 and 100hz, and it sounded spot on. The V8's just added a little more fidelity and opened up the soundstage a bit. After playing around with the levels between them and the 151s, I managed to get a nice blended sound. The vs10 just added a nice warmth to the bass, the 115's are quite kicky so I think it helped to have a softer sub in the mix. Not stomach churning bass, but plenty of volume to party to, and should hold its own against overspill from the reggae sound system and rave rig in the other tents. I didn't feel the need to drive anything very hard with plenty of headroom all round. The Tannoy sub worked really well fed from the SMQ amp, so it really only further motivates me to try and bring the other cab back into the mix. I smashed through a fairly wide mix of music to try and cover off what the DJ's might be playing over the weekend and it all sounded really nice, so generally I'm pretty chuffed with this setup. I did discover a bit of noise in one of the 115 cabs, so swapped over the drivers to make sure it wasn't one of them, and the problem remained in the cab, so think the drivers are all good, just need to locate the rattle (hopefully just something shaken loose over all the years of use). But for a dirt cheap replacement to the shitty warrior subs (which I sold for £10 more than I paid for them) I'm pretty happy with this and think it will do the job nicely for the job in hand. Now I've got about 5 weeks to find someone selling a Tannoy Driver cheap on ebay, but don't think it's the end of the world if I don't find anything in time! Thanks again for your time and input!
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 2:06pm
| It might be that some of the components in the HPF of those TXD subs have degraded over time as they are quite old now. It's good that you had a decent play with everything over the weekend. Good luck! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 2:22pm
| Quite possibly! Thanks again for your input! |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 2:34pm
| Considering that, it might be worth popping the connection plate off one of the subs and checking the wiring. If there's no filter bypass option, then it could be useful to bypass it completely if you're not going to use it. If the components have degraded then it could certainly lead to poor bass performance as well as the HPF output sounding bad. Just a thought! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 2:38pm
| That's a good shout. I've got to dig around in one of the cabs anyway to work out what's rattling. |
Posted By: Bams
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 3:41pm
| Had some parts orderdered from soundimports over time (also am based in the netherlands) and they are great to deal with. worth a try to call them for information regarding the drivers. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 11:52pm
| Yes I've been chatting with them today. I need to try and run some simulations but struggling to find some of the important stats for the cabinet to enter into winlsd |
Posted By: woody2
Date Posted: 19 August 2025 at 7:41pm
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Have you seen this.... https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/67804-tannoy-ts10-subwoofer-replacement-driver-a100431-04rb" rel="nofollow - https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/67804-tannoy-ts10-subwoofer-replacement-driver-a100431-04rb
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Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 19 August 2025 at 7:44pm
Yes I did see that a while back, but thought they were focussed on an un-ported box rather than a band pass enclosure. Wasn't sure if the simulations would be similar in my case.
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 19 August 2025 at 8:17pm
| Thats not the same subwoofer or driver. The TS10 is a cheap home cinema sub. The cone and surround may look the same, but the VS10 driver is a double stack magnet. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 19 August 2025 at 10:07pm
I think they are the same. They even have the same model number printed on them. This is my one - https://photos.app.goo.gl/s1yqoVW74ugsQc3i8" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/s1yqoVW74ugsQc3i8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/6FWLSB2AtgW1yVhk6" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/6FWLSB2AtgW1yVhk6
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 19 August 2025 at 10:48pm
| I stand corrected! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 20 August 2025 at 10:26am
| I've just had a response from Music Tribe! They are suggesting that the old VSX10BP shared the same driver a the original VS10 so theoretically the new drivers in the current VSX10BP should be backwards compatible. Apparently the have different terminations and comes with an 'at your own risk' disclaimer, but perhaps worth a shot! They've suggested getting in touch with one of their resellers. |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 02 January 2026 at 12:36pm
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Just going to add some more into this thread as things have evolved yet again. I did manage to get my little VS10 subs running nicely with a couple of drivers bought from soundimports. I did an event last summer which went really well, the marquee was a great vibe, but I did struggle with limited headroom, and fending off other systems in other tents nearby. I had a massive reggae rig on one side of me, and a huge rave rig on the other, so I got squeezed hard when they cranked up, and there was lots of bass bleed, that I was incapable of fending off. So... Onto the next phase! Thanks to Facebook marketplace, I've acquired a fairly large haul of speakers. I've got the following new speakers to play with - 4 x WSX (WSXtra's with the void v18-1000) 2 x X1's (intend to use the void drivers with these for indoor use, when the WSX's are not well suited) 2 x Limmer Horn 042 cab (3 way with a PD123er mid bass horn underneath) 2 x 15" folded horns 2 x 12" straight fibreglass horns (these are huge with 50x60cm horn mouth, and almost 90cm depth) 2 x small fibreglass horns (with Community HFE2 drivers) 2 x JBL 4560 Style bass horns. I also bought a Berry ultradrive, and a Audac 4 channel amp (with built in DSP). Currently exploring some options for a beefy digital amp for sub duties. Now this isn't probably what I would have designed from scratch, but for the money I spent it was an insane deal I couldn't miss. My current plan is to sell the JBL's, the fibreglass horns and the 15" folded cabs and focus on the WSX's, X1s and the limmer tops. I would be really interested in people's thoughts on what direction to take this, factoring in my current Turbos and v8's. I think there's potential here to build a really nice versatile system (indoor and outdoor), with the headroom I lacked previously, and a nice sweet sounding rig suited to House, Disco, Funk and perhaps even some Reggae and D&B. I'm never really into pure SPL, but want a clean sounding rig which works well in stereo, for 100-200 people. What do you guys think I should do next? I'm going to try and post some pics, if I can work out how! |
Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 02 January 2026 at 12:53pm
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Posted By: m@d
Date Posted: 02 January 2026 at 12:55pm
| This was my little venue in action if anyone is interested - https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZiDMiZcJQR12yqv5" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZiDMiZcJQR12yqv5 |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 02 January 2026 at 8:27pm
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The mt121s and limmer horns are cool. Good haul. |