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Safe saturated bass

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Scoops
Forum Description: One scoop or two ;-)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=109194
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 5:53pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Safe saturated bass
Posted By: Mightymaximo
Subject: Safe saturated bass
Date Posted: 17 August 2025 at 2:18pm
Hi family, back again with another newbie question.

We built a reggae sound system with 18" scoops (Eminence design), loaded with B&C 18TBX 8Ω drivers. The setup is Old JTS custom preamp (used to be 3-way, now 4-way)
Crest CA18 for sub bass.
Usually running 2 scoops in parallel, 8Ω each.

We really love that saturated, “ruff” bass sound, and the way we’ve been getting it is by running the preamp at full volume, with the CA18 clipping red almost all the time when the bass hits (which sure is not the best for the drivers).

The problem: after a 6-hour session, the drivers were very hot, and you could even smell some burning.

What would you recommend to keep our bass drivers safe but still get that distorted bass sound we’re after?

Also is it better to run the amp at full power or at half power?

Thanks for your patience with these beginner questions, bless.




Replies:
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 August 2025 at 3:46pm
I would recommend bringing twice the number of scoops and run them with no more than 1KW per each and never clip your amp.
Adding distorsion trough a preamp is not helping also. They add to the clipped signal and you get burned voice coils.
Alway run your rig with at least 3-4db headroom.
From your other post i can conclude that you dont have enough rig for the gig you want to do.



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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 17 August 2025 at 4:31pm
Yeah red means stop


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 17 August 2025 at 4:57pm
Tbx is a really old driver with bad cooling , any more modern offerings you can run hard and they wont cook like the tbx . Sw115 ,ds100/115.



Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 12:36pm
Work out your limiter settings properly before you do anything! Unless you have money to burn.

Try distorting the sound BEFORE it gets to the amplifier stage. Are you analogue or digital on your control side? If analogue maybe get an old 160 or something and try that out on your sub frequency band?


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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 12:53pm
Valve preamp.

See my other post...


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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

Valve preamp.

See my other post...


  Musical Fidelity made a stereo valve line buffer many moons ago. Since then there have been a raft of Chinese knockoffs available for not much monies. They are unbalanced though, but I imagine if you overload it slightly you might get a similar sound!
  


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 3:30pm
Mightymaximo,

Suggest you request admin to move this thread to the Scoop forum. 

Done

Or expect to be flooded with comments from Reggae Sound System haters/those who don't get Reggae Sounds systems, but think they are experts.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

Yeah red means stop


a DJ once told me in all seriousness 'this red light- this is your bass'


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 18 August 2025 at 4:56pm
Right this is now in the right forum.

MightyMaximo, 

Would suggest, you only listen to guys, who are already running Reggae Soundsystems, with Scoops, and have tried various drivers, with different sub amps, sometimes in bridge.

Have already read much biased info in this thread, that is just plain wrong.

Please define the model of Scoops you are using, and I'll suggest drivers, that will do what you need, in bridge on CA18.

Please be aware, CA18 must be on very stiff mains, to fully perform, without premature clipping.

You only listen


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: WessexAudioMan
Date Posted: 19 August 2025 at 8:03am
CA18 is not a nasty clipper when the red lights are flashing unlike some amps, that’s assuming the clip limiter switches are switched on. Still not best practice to run like that but it will exceed the paper specs when pushed to its limit. Which is enough power for most 18” drivers 2 a side when playing electronic bass heavy music. 
If you want more, you need more boxes not power into the ones you got. If you want to change or colour the sound to your own taste do that before it gets to the amplifier. 


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 19 August 2025 at 9:31am
Originally posted by WessexAudioMan WessexAudioMan wrote:

CA18 is not a nasty clipper when the red lights are flashing unlike some amps, that’s assuming the clip limiter switches are switched on. 


I agree, thank God is one of the amps with very good clip limiting.

My experience of ownership was, the anp is a completely different beast on saggy mains, as opposed to on a single leg, of 3ph supply/genset.

Just like Crest 9001/QSC PL380.




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 26 August 2025 at 3:26pm
This is probably the sound you are after. It took years of experimenting to reach this without blowing drivers. I can run 6k plus of this sound. 
https://youtu.be/1drMKmOjMT4?si=idjRL_rotFk0kiRE" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/1drMKmOjMT4?si=idjRL_rotFk0kiRE

Pretty much any transistor based distortion will be square wave, doesn't matter if that's before the power amp or by the power amp. Square waves will over heat any driver, even if powered by a fairly low power amp. You find better results if the signal gently turns into a saw tooth wave. Valve amps do this party because of the output transformer saturation and the way the valves clip. Turning any transistor based system into the red to get the sound you want just costs you loads of money in repair and finishes sessions early. However big valve amps also are notorious for finishing sessions early. 
"Bwoy, dance finish because valve amp a bust again cha!!"


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Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.


Posted By: VECTORDJ
Date Posted: 29 August 2025 at 1:33pm
Hi, I have 30 Years Recone experience ...... 30 Years of repairing blown DJ and MI Speakers ......RED MEANS STOP.......VECTORSONICS Auburn, Maine USA 


Posted By: knet94
Date Posted: 30 August 2025 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

This is probably the sound you are after. It took years of experimenting to reach this without blowing drivers. I can run 6k plus of this sound. 
https://youtu.be/1drMKmOjMT4?si=idjRL_rotFk0kiRE" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/1drMKmOjMT4?si=idjRL_rotFk0kiRE

Pretty much any transistor based distortion will be square wave, doesn't matter if that's before the power amp or by the power amp. Square waves will over heat any driver, even if powered by a fairly low power amp. You find better results if the signal gently turns into a saw tooth wave. Valve amps do this party because of the output transformer saturation and the way the valves clip. Turning any transistor based system into the red to get the sound you want just costs you loads of money in repair and finishes sessions early. However big valve amps also are notorious for finishing sessions early. 
"Bwoy, dance finish because valve amp a bust again cha!!"

Sorry, but that sounds horrible to my ears. Everything is distorted not just the bass.


Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 30 August 2025 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by knet94 knet94 wrote:

Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

This is probably the sound you are after. It took years of experimenting to reach this without blowing drivers. I can run 6k plus of this sound. 
https://youtu.be/1drMKmOjMT4?si=idjRL_rotFk0kiRE" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/1drMKmOjMT4?si=idjRL_rotFk0kiRE

Pretty much any transistor based distortion will be square wave, doesn't matter if that's before the power amp or by the power amp. Square waves will over heat any driver, even if powered by a fairly low power amp. You find better results if the signal gently turns into a saw tooth wave. Valve amps do this party because of the output transformer saturation and the way the valves clip. Turning any transistor based system into the red to get the sound you want just costs you loads of money in repair and finishes sessions early. However big valve amps also are notorious for finishing sessions early. 
"Bwoy, dance finish because valve amp a bust again cha!!"

Sorry, but that sounds horrible to my ears. Everything is distorted not just the bass.

Does not sound good I agree


Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 30 August 2025 at 6:57pm
Many thanks. Its a beautiful diverse world. The distortion in the mid is my phone mic distorting. The bass sounds very close to what I was hearing. Its the bass I was trying to demonstrate. 
If you don't like this sound, is it likely you'd enjoy the op's sound given their description of what they do to get the sound they want. Its s very niche thing we try to achieve. 
Many hated Shaka's set. But many loved it too.


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Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 01 September 2025 at 2:53pm
I mentioned earlier in this thread (and the original), the OP, should only consider advice from people, who have experience of running Scoop Reggae systems, and also bridging amps.

Not all amps clip/redline, wholly due to the input signal being too hot, and not all amps square wave and burn voice coils, when they clip.

Those with sufficient  experience of various drivers, cabs, amps playing Dub Reggae will know this.

I'll wheel out, this old chestnut again.
(Video filmed by fellow Speaker plans member)


Back in the 2013 glory days of Golden Palace Soundcheck, in NE London.

Video taken of set I brought, along with some illustrious mates assisting.

My Lev .44 Scoops, 3rd outing,  loaded with UK made PD1852 prototypes, provided by "Kutty QSS Qualitex", Ren "APS" at the controls.

I had heard these drivers in other Scoops, seen the T/S Parameters, so drew up plan, "optimized" for these new drivers.

As it was a "sound check", for a while the bass section was powered by pair of bridged QSC RMX 5050s, for a while, single Powersoft K20.

Mains supply was 1x leg of 3phase 64A supply, and boy, was it rigid.

During certain bass notes, the current draw was approx 34A @ 240V, the engineers amongst you can deduce,  the approx peak power going to the subs, at times.

Was told the sub that night: 
  • Could be heard for miles, 
  • Was setting car alarms off, 400M away,
  • Sounded heavier than many sounds in there, with 8x cabs,
  • Fellow sound dude's wife, was 25M from cabs, got chest pains from sub, had to leave early !! Shocked

No drivers blown, another sound there, blew drivers trying to keep up.

Another example, of when mains supply is right, and cabs, drivers, sub bass pre-amp, knowledgeable engineer, are in harmony.

Much of the above, is what OP is looking for, much of it will be un-acceptable to some. 



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 01 September 2025 at 4:38pm
Thumbs Up

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Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.


Posted By: Norseman
Date Posted: 22 September 2025 at 11:14am
Change the JTS to a s&p with "growl" knob to emulate valve distortion harmonics.

I believe the new sage and also the bass module by JB also have a similar function as does the forthcoming preamp by abzu 

These are basically overdrive circuits in the preamp.

Then adjust amplifier sensitivity downward to accomodatw hot signal.

Amplifier amplifies anything coming in by a fixed amount, say 32x for example.

So if signal going in hotter and with added harmonic distortion, amp sens can be attenuated to match and allow proper gain stage with optimal signal to noise ratio

Josh 


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 22 September 2025 at 11:49am
https://www.spaudio.co.uk/subsonic%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.spaudio.co.uk/subsonic

thats what  ya need 


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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM



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