First build . Got the skills just not the skills
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Category: General
Forum Name: Newbie Discussion
Forum Description: Newbie Discussion/Questions. Look less stupid here...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=109380
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 5:30pm
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Topic: First build . Got the skills just not the skills
Posted By: DeepSeedSounds
Subject: First build . Got the skills just not the skills
Date Posted: 05 January 2026 at 8:57pm
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Hello everyone First post , first time sound system builder. A pal sent me this way and said it would be a good place to dive in for some advice. Im sure i will be badgering people with a bunch of different questions but first i will layout where im at and the goal ! Im currently a pretty experienced carpenter with a workshop and access to a CNC machine so the actual building of the thing i dont have any worries about. Im more looking for advice of what to build :-) Apart from a love of listening to music and how things sound i dont know much about sound system set ups. Me and pal have been putting on these shows in a smallish above a pub venue .. probably about 50 - 80 cap . It starts early afternoon with kinda spiritual jazz , deep dubs, African rhythms and can slowly roll into more post punk dub groove to techno chuggers into the evening. We sometime have live acts from experimental electronics to bands. The current PA in the venue is shite and for the types of tunes played it would change the whole vibe if the sounds was amazing. The idea of building our own rig sounds great fun and would be cool to give us a bit of identity . So the brief is basically a rig that is not to big with a sound that is clean, clear and smooooth with a deep smooth bass sound. Something that still sounds lush at lower volumes but can still kick it out when people wanna party. Usually when we have a band playing we only mic up the vocals and kick drum so it would be good for that too. It would be awesome to hear your thoughts ? What would you recommend? What set up comes to mind ? Where to start ? Any references worth reading or videos to watch etc ? We are in no rush so we can chip away at a design and take our time working out the right set up and then do some late shifts in the workshop . Looking forward to hearing what you think and having a dig around the rest of the forum . Nice one Deep Seed Sounds
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Replies:
Posted By: fat_brstd
Date Posted: 05 January 2026 at 10:26pm
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This kind of thing definitely calls for reflex boxes which are nice and easy to build and easy to get to sound good. The most classic set up for a space like would be a couple of single 18" subs and then a pair of 12" + Horn tops which if you use half decent components would cover that size space no worries. TBH with an audience size of 50-80 you could get away with 15" subs if you wanted to save space/make it easier to move around or just have a single 18" and put in the middle of the 2 tops. I know that people will suggest all sorts of complicated builds such as bass horns or paraflex but there is absolutely no need for any of that sort of stuff in a space like you describe. Good luck ------------- Melbournes Rootical Warrior Roots - Dub - Steppers http://www.facebook.com/adrians.wall" rel="nofollow - facebook page |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 05 January 2026 at 10:45pm
+1 for this. I use a pair of 12"+1.4" reflex tops and either 2 or 4 18" single reflex subs depending on the venue for small indoor type things. If you want to stand out then maybe focus on some top quality drivers and amps rather than complex speaker designs. If you have the skills and facilities, I would say that making some cabinets with a great looking real wood veneer like hifi speakers would be super. Maybe not for the subs as they would be at floor level and would likely be subject to a bit more knocking about, but you can buy some nice padded bags for the tops to keep them in good condition. These 12" drivers:- https://voltloudspeakers.co.uk/speaker/rv3143-12inch/" rel="nofollow - https://voltloudspeakers.co.uk/speaker/rv3143-12inch/ Look spectacular and are also used in some high end studio monitors by PMC. The radial chassis can also be painted if required.
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fat_brstd wrote:Posted By: DeepSeedSounds
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 10:31am
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Thanks so much for quick replies ! it cool hearing what path to take . What plans are good for this type of rig ? Those volt drivers look pretty epic . I can imagine would be pricey .. but the sound is key in this set up . thanks again for your replies so far
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Posted By: Bams
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 1:14pm
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I do think naming a budget is key for good advice. Also; which pa sucks now and why? is the room treated acoustically? a modernist room with concrete ceiling and floors and no reverberation damping will make even the best system sound awfull. you can make a simple reflex system look sexy with some unfinished wood, polish or staining and a bright grill so thats the least of your issues.
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Posted By: DeepSeedSounds
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 1:41pm
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Well the current PA is old a battered and sounds like shit haha lacking bass and kinda tiny . The room is upstairs in a pub and all the external windows get closed off with sound insulation what defiantly helps the sound. As far as budget goes .. i would say £1.5k to £2.5k .. More than happy to track down second hand amps and stuff if thats a good route to go down ?
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 5:17pm
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Tbh, on your budget and for a smallish room above a pub a pretty simple second hand system would probably be your best bet. Something like:- https://ebay.us/m/R5sYTy" rel="nofollow - https://ebay.us/m/R5sYTy would do fine.. As someone else said, you can easily paint the cabs and grills to make an aesthetic impact.
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Posted By: DeepSeedSounds
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 6:27pm
| Oh yeah that looks awesome . My main thing is a great stand out sound . I could always jazz up a secondhand system …. i did like the idea of building my own though |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 6:35pm
| That is a great system for that sort of money. Super sound quality. Those Crown amps are a bit on the heavy side compared to modern lightweight alternatives, but are really high quality. That will easily cover 100-150 people. A nice and easy way to add a little visual drama is to remove the grills and drivers and then paint the baffle in a contrasting colour. I have a small system in my van consisting of 2x 12" reflex cabs and 2x EV ZX1s facing out when I open the tailgate. The cabs are black with red baffles which look great through the black grills. |
Posted By: DeepSeedSounds
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 6:47pm
| oh that sounds cool you got a photo ? |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 6:57pm
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 6:59pm
| Sorry about the image quality. It's not recent, and the edges of the subs are black now instead of red but you get the idea! |
Posted By: DeepSeedSounds
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 7:55pm
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wow look at . sweet van rig ! i’m kinda torn now … i still have a feeling of enjoying the journey of building my own rig . I wouldn’t want to do it though if it cost more and ended up not sounded as good as a cheaper second hand system
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 8:07pm
| That example system would have cost around 6k new. Building speakers is fun and rewarding, but it's not a cheaper alternative for your requirements. If you're not in a hurry then maybe you should hire some equipment and see what fits your bill. |
Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 9:30pm
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I completely understand wanting to build your own cabs, it's immensely satisfying hearing cabs that you put blood, sweat and tears into, it's even better when you get compliments on how they sound! However, in your position I don't think I'd be able to look past something like the Martin Audio system above, you won't get a better system for that sort of outlay.
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Posted By: DeepSeedSounds
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 9:41pm
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hmm i think i might be straying from the roots of the idea . The events are very wholesome / cosmic and experimental affair . Charlie who i do it with is an amazing musician / dj and sound designer and im from a woodwork punk background and i think it would be cool to build something sculptural and awesome sounding …. but i think im starting to realise without a huge amount of knowledge and experience , going off piste from plans and tried and tested methods is a bit of a recipe for disaster. But i think we may still go on with the build it yourself idea just for fun and experiment. For now if anyone want to fire over some inspiration of cool builds or ideas or references that would be ace . It’s gonna be a slow project so let’s see what happens
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 10:21pm
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I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I love it when design and high quality audio clash with spectacular results. The problem is that it ends up costing a fortune. Take Bang & Olufsen, Bowers & Wilkins Nautilus and a host of other high end companies for example. The premium looks and design cost as much as and often more than the sound quality. In the mass produced pro audio market, its very difficult to approach the sound and build quality offered for anything like the same price when you DIY. The cost of wood, paint, drivers, handles, grills, connection plates, crossovers/processors, flight cases, cables, connectors.... the list goes on. To buy these items for just a one off build is way more than big companies pay for them. Even after that, when you compare new prices to used then its even more crazy. On that example system, just the price of the 2 Martin Audio Blackline F12+ top speakers is over £1k new so add everything else you see there to make a complete system and you can see how expensive it can be. I think you'll need to decide where your priorities lie for the budget you can afford. I found that system within 2 minutes of looking, so I'm sure you can find something similar in the future if that's the direction you want to take (although that is a VERY keen price for such a decent setup).
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Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 06 January 2026 at 10:46pm
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Just thinking outside the boring black boxes that you might end up with, there's nothing to stop you from making them more interactive with a regular audience. I'm sure there are many options, but one that I just though of is to paint them with matte blackboard paint and leave a box of coloured chalk out. If it's an artistic crowd you're playing to, then why not invite them to customise the soundsystem at every gig? Just take a few photos after, give them a quick wash and you'll have a pretty unique result to keep every time. Just a childish little thought!
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Posted By: Bams
Date Posted: 07 January 2026 at 8:58am
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If you got the time hoarding decent drivers and in the meantime searching for a aesthetical pleasing design (please stay close to reflex or closed systems for such a small room) that is the way to go. in the meantime learning about driver parameters over here and so is a great pastime. the most underrated but important frequency band is the mid band.. mostly people end up buying amazing horns and big subs but chuck in a cheap or tired driver for the 150hz-1khhz band.. but thats where the magic happens in voices and instruments. better a really good 10" than mediocre 12" is my opinion. in the meantime my rig for inspiration. cobbled together for less than 2000 euros with amps and sl1200's by waiting patiently; https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3624481674532087&set=gm.2740156926138924&idorvanity=403273539827286" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3624481674532087&set=gm.2740156926138924&idorvanity=403273539827286
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Posted By: el chupacabra
Date Posted: 07 January 2026 at 2:31pm
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It's worth mentioning that a lot of stuff on the used market was built before the price of 18mm bb grade birch sheets went from 30-40£ to 110-150£ as sanctions took a big chunk out of the market supply from russian birch. It is sometimes not very economical these days considering the amount of stuff that has already been built. However you can be assured of it's integrity over a long period of time when starting from scratch as long in the tooth cabinets can have rattles/leaks in them that render them useless and difficult to remedy. |
Posted By: Larry23
Date Posted: 09 January 2026 at 4:35pm
| I've not got the exact costings with me, will pop them up here when I get a chance, but I've priced up a system recently, made up of new and secondhand drivers, with secondhand electronics (EV/Lab gruppen/MC2 and XTA), alongside material and hardware costs, that comes under your budget for a front loaded system with similar spec to the Martin one, that was posted up earlier in the thread. Its very possible to build a decent system for that kind of monies.. |
Posted By: fudge22
Date Posted: 10 January 2026 at 7:16pm
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If all you want is a decent small system, have a look at somewhere like Thomann’s active loudspeaker sets section of their web page. There will be likely something listed that will work, and is within your budget. With the amplifiers built into the cabinets there is less to move about and it simplifies the set up. If you just buy a few random drive units, use a passive, off the shelf, crossover between the mid and top, plus a cheap analogue/active crossover between the bass and mid, you are very unlikely to improve on a commercial system. With regards to the Martin system linked to, The biggest selling feature is the badge. The Blackline series is nothing special. It works as well as any other sub/mid/horn in a couple of boxes would, but it must sound better because Martin. It should not be that difficult to match this. In my opinion, the system that Lucasdude uploaded a photo of would be more than enough for you current needs. The only reason for using a 12” or 15” driver in a mid/top cabinet is to give more bass output if it is used without a sub. With a 3 way system the bass cabinet does the heavy lifting. Acoustically, an 8” drive unit is larger at 100Hz than an 18” driver is at 40Hz. A smaller mid drive unit will integrate better with the high frequency driver. To improve on these commercial systems, you really need to use a digital speaker processor (dsp), and then learn how to set it up, which, if you want to do it properly, means using a measurement microphone. There are plenty of free software programs on the internet. If you are thinking of building more cabinets in the future, with a 2 in 6 out dsp, a 4 channel amp for mid/tops, and a 2 channel amp for bass, you could have a common amp rack with different presets for different systems. If you are determined to build your own system the BMS 12S330 or Ciare 12.00SW, are a better option than the Volt driver linked to. For simplicity of mid/tops, an 8” coaxial drive unit would work well. I have used the BMS 8”, but I would imagine that similar units from B&C, Faital, etc would sound just as good. |
Posted By: Larry23
Date Posted: 12 January 2026 at 10:25am
This isn't the system I'd originally priced up, I'm on hols at the mo, but it's an example of what could be put together from scratch, buying kit that's available new from Blue Aran, Lean Business, and second hand kit on ebay/marketplace currently, along with sheet material from Creffields (or other sheet material supplier), and building the cabs. You could use far more expensive BB/BB birch ply, but I think if you're on a budget, and it's an install, that's not going to get bashed about touring etc, cheaper ply will work fine on your budget. You'll likely use less than 4 sheets, but I wanted to ensure there was enough for fabricating ports/bracing etc.2 x SB AUDIENCE ROSSO 12MW300 £270 (new)2 x B&C 18TBW100 £480 (S/H) 2 x B&C DE36 £108.72 (new) 2 x B&C ME20 £32.60 (new) 4 x recessed speakon plate £4 8 x NL4MPXX speakon sockets £15.04 4 x bar handles (273mm) £13.08 3 x metres 2 core 2.5mm speaker cable £3.81 4 x 8'x4' sheets hardwood ply £200 Glue/screws/filler £50 Paint £100 EV P3000 £500 (S/H) LAB GRUPPEN LAB1600 £320 (S/H) MC2 T1500 £175 (S/H) XTA DP226 £450 S/H) Total £2452.25. |
Posted By: fudge22
Date Posted: 12 January 2026 at 5:27pm
With 6 drive units, each cable is 0.5m long. How does that work? I would have suspected a typo, but Blue Aran's price of £1.27 per metre x 3 metres = £3.81 says not. If using 4 pin Speakons with two drives in the top cabinet, 4 core cable would be a better option than 2 core. Using Blue Aran's price of £3.20 per metre, and a more realistic length of 6m each (still short), gives 24 x £3.20 = £76.80. Personally, I don't see the point in quoting prices for second hand equipment. I managed to buy a low use Sennhiser wireless mic, with a 865 capsule, plus the receiver and case, for £40 off ebay. I doubt that is typical. Prices can vary considerably. Searching for the XTA DP226 bought up prices from £567 to £1200 on ebay. Given that the main aim of going the second hand route is to keep costs down. Even at the prices you quoted, your amp rack combo totals £1445. Buying new (Thomann prices), A DCX 2496 crossover, TSA 4-700 and NX6000 comes to £883. Additionally it comes with a guarantee, and as a bonus, the total rack weight will be less than the weight of the EV amp. The badges on the second hand stuff might get you a few kudos points on forum like this, but in reality, at a gig, no one will care or be able to tell the difference. |
Posted By: Larry23
Date Posted: 17 January 2026 at 8:22pm
Hi Fudge :) I was accounting (badly) only for the cable needed internally in the speaker cabs. That would possibly be nearer 5m, so ~£2.50 extra on the total. The size of room wasn't specified, so I didn't include speaker cables, or XLR's. I'm not sure why you'd use 4 core for the bass cabs? It would be appropriate for 2-way mid/tops. So, 12m of 4 core at £3.20, and 17m of 2 core at £1.27, 4 Neutrik Speakon NL2's at £3.74, 4 NL4's at £4.94, 6 XLR's at £2.70. Total is £110.91, which doesn't put us far over the target (not at all if we're using your new electronics). I personally have a bunch of DP224's for sale, hence the price. There's others on Marketplace. Maybe it's not always the best, most reliable route, but there is kit that has stood the test of time, is very serviceable, will remain so, and sounds very good. If you are going to invest in decent quality drive units, and potentially spend time crafting your own boxes, components like the MC2 and Lab Gruppen on mid/tops especially, will sound lovely. Punters might not immediately notice, but I strongly believe there will be a palpable difference.
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Posted By: fudge22
Date Posted: 18 January 2026 at 12:41pm
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Sorry, my reply wasn't that clear in explaining my reasoning. The point that was trying to make was that if you are going to itemise the cost of a build down to pence, you really need to include everything. That includes interconnecting cables between amplifiers and speakers, crossover and amplifiers. What about speaker grilles and a rack for the amplifiers? If you buy a ready made, 10m, 4 core speakon cable from Blue Aran, it is £57. If you buy the parts and make your own it is still £42. If the mid/tops need raising up add on the price of speaker poles and fittings. All these items add up, and given that the budget was £1500 to £2500, presumably closer to £1500 would be better. £150 of cables and connectors then becomes 10% of the budget. I acknowledge that the cost for these parts will be similar whatever the rest of the system is, but so is a box of screws. When working within a fixed budget, all parts need to be taken into consideration. Without them the system is useless. Yay, you came in within budget, but it is a bit sad if you your mum wants her kettle lead back mid gig. The OP doesn't say what the signal source is. Is he simply using the headphone jack of a tablet/laptop? Does he need a small mixer, or does he already have this part of the system? Is there an additional budget for this? In the end whoever is designing/building the system has to make their own cost list, bill of materials, or whatever you want to call it. We can only assume that his budget is for everything downstream of the mixer and work from that. The reason for using 4 core cable is that having consistent cable types means less specificity. You just have speaker cables which will work with any cabinet. Given that the OP was asking about a complete system he'll need 4-way for the mid/tops, so may as well get all 4 core. As For use inside the cabinet you can always strip off the outer insulation and use two cores. |
Posted By: Larry23
Date Posted: 22 January 2026 at 8:11pm
OK..  My original point was simply that a system could be built for less than the OP's budget. I broke down as much of the costings as I could to illustrate that, but did miss out a few things (silly me), and there was room to improve on the electronics budget. Now we've worked that out, anything like speaker grilles, other cables etc can be budgeted for, problems solved  |