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Omnitop 12 build pics

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Category: Plans
Forum Name: Other plans
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about all the other plans
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10979
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 5:53pm
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Topic: Omnitop 12 build pics
Posted By: soundsystemdan
Subject: Omnitop 12 build pics
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 10:47pm





Pictured hear with the SD740N on a PH2723 on an adaptor, and the SGLA (Super Gypsie Line Array)
(awaiting furthers coats of navy blue paint)

Loaded with random drivers out of my Wharfedale cabs, and sounding good with a flat and wide response. I had them out at a festy this weekend with nothing but good feedback.


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Replies:
Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 11:20pm
Thats great I am just getting insomnia to build me some of those so thats very positive feedback!
 
One question, how are the handle ports for lifting those things? Pleasure or pain?
 
Stu


-------------
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Posted By: soundsystemdan
Date Posted: 22 July 2007 at 11:41pm
Could do with being slightly closer to the middle, but then they'd get too close to the braces which will affect their tuning. I put them 1/2" in from what the plans said. They definately are back heavy (I have non Neo drivers in) so they should always be lifted with the back towards you.

Also if you have the plans you'll notice I built them a differently by having the 2nd baffle all as one piece, instead of the two bits down the side with the middle bits put in afterwards.

I'm sure Insomnia will do a better job and use less filler than I did. The wood I used was a bit poor too. Still, it was good experience for if I ever do it (or anything similar) again.



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Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 1:35am
No looks pretty good mate certainly about on par with what I could have achieved. Could do with a better paint job but thats just aesthetics
 
Yeah I will be using neos so that should help a lot
 
Have you pole mounted them? That was the main thing I was thinking about when lifting, seems like it would be awkward with handles like that but I could be wrong.
 
Stu
 


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: antimony
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 2:05am
Has anyone got the plans?
thanks


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 8:58am
www.billfitzmaurice.com


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All you need to know is:
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www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
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Posted By: soundsystemdan
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Disco Stu Disco Stu wrote:

Have you pole mounted them?
No, I generally put more speakers where a pole would go.


-------------
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Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 23 July 2007 at 11:00am
Looks a bit like this:
 
 


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djk


Posted By: Strange Daze
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 12:35pm
Dan....
fooking good job there mate...
they look spanking!!!!
sorry again i couldnt make it to Illckley for the big testing!!
peace,
N


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 3:48pm

Stu,

Why do you think it is that people on this site will often post plans from speaker comapines and other sources, but I've never seen a bill fitz plan anywhere.
 
Does paying for it really not make you want to share it. Thats a perfect business.


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 6:25pm
Yea, lets see them then

-------------
Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: Rockin
Date Posted: 25 July 2007 at 6:35pm
Aye Rog has shown you his, now its your turn to show us yours Tongue


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:29am
If someone else is willing to take on the law suit that might happen if those plans were posted online then be my guest, but part of the plans is a copyright notice and after all, bill has the details of everyone who has purchased the plans and while I dont know enough about the internet to work out if its possible to actually track that, I dont plan to risk posting.
 
The plans are not just the diagram of the box, they include all the techniques required and step by step construction techniques for assembly, like your own construction guide but even more in depth.
 
The difference being most of the folk that build the fitzmaurice plans have not really DIYed anything much before, so the whole concept of building may have to be taken from scratch and originally a lot of his plans were developed for bass players as backline, its only in recent years that his DR horns have been able to cope up to 3.5kHz comfortably with the recent addition of the phase bung.
 
Yes there have so far been no rogue posters online, but I expect that someone would have to purcahse a plan first in order to do that and presumably this is why there are no plans lurking.
 
Yes it does seem to be a perfect business, maybe you should do it too rog? I am sure there are plenty of good plans you have lurking in your head that you could market.
 
Having said that Bill has to sit there every day on his forum answering questions from sometimes clueless builders, and that must get a bit tedious.
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

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Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:48am
Btw the only reason I find myself recommending particular Bill Fitz plans over yours is the fact that the 4560 type design is somewhat more flexible than something like the MT122 and especially when used in small amounts as a lot of people do.
 
With a larger ported rear chamber the cabs can work standalone down to a reasonable crossover point of perhaps 80-100Hz rather than cutting off at 160Hz or higher which would ideally require a kickbass and a sub cab which I dont believe very many people have room to cart around or power but of course when they do its MT122 or 102 all the way.
 
There are obvious limitations of the designs such as the shorter horns can never give as much gain and focused dispersion as a longer horn and that his DR bent horns should never work in a million years but it all comes down to what is
 
a) important from a practical sound perspective and
b) what people are willing to accept as a compromise.
 
As I have said before the plans were initially made for small bands and DIYer musicians running their own rig, since then as the popularity has grown there have become a more professional engineer following but it seems that while there may be things that you as a designer would not consider because they may be "too compromised" for your tastes, Bill has managed to make them work because he has worked out that while you might not accept that as a compromise, many people will.
 
Sure the DRs may have time domain issues and require a fair amount of EQ to get it sounding right and some wise people such as JD01 have pointed out that even EQ cant account for any phase anomalies that might occur but it goes back to the fact that nevertheless people are still satisfied with their sound. The reason I use BF cabs is because I want the efficiency of a horn even a compromised one but want the portability of a reflex. I believe many people share that view.
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 12:54am
copyright laws dont apply to critising the plan....  which is what we are doing.  As such you can indeed post it. 
 


-------------
Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 3:00pm
There isnt really much special or new about the Omnitop plans its a basic 4560 type design, with a horn to give midrange boost and then a large ported rear chamber so that the box can have a lower cutoff albeit at reduced SPL as is clearly shown in the pics here.
 
There are also instructions on how to construct a makeshift phase plug in the plans from styrofoam which help to get the box to cutoff higher, and also the use of a low pass filter on the woofer increases response at 2kHz with the box rolling off around 3kHz which is where the piezo array or compression driver will take over. The rest can pretty well be worked out from these pictures and the overall dimensions of the box given on bills site 22"x18"x28"
 
The main criticism I have heard about from several speakerplans forum members is that the published SPL charts dont add up. Unfortunately I have no means of testing the overall output, as I dont have SPL measuring software, what I do have however is a good ear and thats ultimately what its all about, but nevertheless the SPL of bills other plan the half size Omni 10 that I built was definitely a lot louder and sounded a lot better than the reflexes I had the drivers in before. There is a review knocking around on this site.
 
The other criticism is about the use of piezo arrays. I dont have a problem with them as I have always used piezos in my boxes with great success, and from the tests done by several forum members including myself I think we have established that 12 piezos properly cut down and arrayed actually make a better sound than a pair of compression drivers and I personally found that the 1177 dual elements give the best overall sound, with the 1005s working best for electronic music.
 
The only beef I have with bill is about his use of eminence drivers which I dont really consider to be robust enough to last and I expect to have much higher power compression figures than some other manufacturers, however they do seem to make drivers with rising responses which he seems to consider most ideal for his horns.
 
The DRs are a different ball game and from what I hear they are a bitch to make but I dont have the plans for them so I cant help you with that. A single DR250 is apparently comparable with an Omnitop 2x12, roughly the same sensitivity of 106/107dB, 1x10" vs 2x12" but the Omnitop 2x12 is louder because of the increased powerhandling and sensitivity of 2 drivers vs 1.
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: planman
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 5:43pm
If anyone's interested, here are the t\/ba 30 plans:

http://next.time.my.ip.gets.banned.doc


Posted By: Rockin
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 6:50pm
Nice one thanks


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 28 July 2007 at 6:04pm
So now that people have seen the tuba plans what do they think?
 
I would like to hear Rogs and Tonys opinions particularly
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: bgavin
Date Posted: 30 July 2007 at 5:06pm
This is theft of copyrighted intellectual property of Bill Fitzmaurice. 


Posted By: bgavin
Date Posted: 31 July 2007 at 4:49am

Here is what is now set in motion by Planman:

Bill Fitzmaurice has notified both http://www.rapidshare.com - www.rapidshare.com and http://www.speakerplans.com - www.speakerplans.com that they are parties to the unauthorized publication and distribution of copyrighted material. Bill has rights of redress for the full amount of the total value of all copies of that material downloaded from http://www.rapidshare.com - www.rapidshare.com at $14.95 per download.

http://www.rapidshare.com - www.rapidshare.com in turn has the right to reimbursement from http://www.speakerplans.com - www.speakerplans.com , being a responsible party, and both have the right to reimbursement from the person who created the links at those respective sites, for not only their cost of reimbursing me but for their legal expenses incurred as well.

And we haven't even touched on the criminal penalties, which are the same as those you see at the opening of every movie, be it in a theater or on DVD.



Posted By: Rengade Project
Date Posted: 31 July 2007 at 6:56am
Two people who just joined having a fit over some plans.This looks like a set up of some sort,Rog needs to get involved.Maybe block both these users.I have bought plans from Bill Fitzmaurice in the past but this whole scene reeks so no more for me.

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MUSIC SWEET,www.myspace.com/renegadeproject


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 31 July 2007 at 7:46am
Moderators, please delete that link!

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 31 July 2007 at 11:22am
BGavin is a mod at the Bill Fitz forum so I doubt its a setup.
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: Lasse Lukkari
Date Posted: 31 July 2007 at 12:17pm
Link edited. Sorry that I didn't see this earlier.


Posted By: planman
Date Posted: 07 August 2007 at 12:31pm
Sorry about that guys, I didn't mean to place the board owners under any stress. However, the legal information posted by Bgavin is of questionable accuracy, and certainly not as cut and dry as is made out. As I only linked to the copyright material and didn't actually upload it, neither speakerplans nor me is involved in copyright theft, nor could you just say outright that either of us is liable for however many times the file was downloaded. Letters have been sent in the USA by large corporations arguing that sites such as tv-links.co.uk who do link to content should cease and desist etc. However, the sites are still online and it looks like they're going to stay. After all, if linking to copyright material was against the law, you couldn't link to anyone's website, as that's their copyright. Additionally, Google indexes many, many files which infringe copyright, and so also link to pirate material. I'm not meaning to stir up trouble and I won't repost the link but i just agree with Rog's sentiment about the spirit of the scene, and find the litigiousness of Bill Fitzmaurice quite a turn off when considering whether to buy his plans or not.

Check out this link and the comments:
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2006/12/is_simply_linki.html


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 07 August 2007 at 1:57pm
I can understand why Bill would be a bit more concerned if his plans were being spread for free because thats his business, he doesnt make or build the cabs for a living he just sells the plans so that others can. However planman is right about the legal issue providing he did not upload it, however the fact that he is a new user suggests to me that he wishes to remain anonymous which is probably what aroused BGavins suspicions.
 
Rogs business is Void and if the Void plans were being made public (even though the correct drivers for most of his cabs are not commercially available) I am sure he would have something to say about it
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 07 August 2007 at 3:55pm

I have been reading through this thread trying to understand what is happening. It's obviously about copying. There will always be a bit of argie bargie with this subject. I would never encourage copying, but instead, try to be inspired enough to go down a similar path but with improvement. I am always amazed that some people are after copying what sometimes amounts to a square box. I never see any future in this. None of are going to re-invent the wheel, so most of our designs will always be a modification on a theme.

The first picture in this tread shows an omnitop cab. Is this a Bill Fitzemaurice design. I am not aware of his stuff.

Here's a picture of our old M212 designed and built 27 years ago.

http://imageshack.us">



-------------
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Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 08 August 2007 at 1:22am
You are right tony yes the cab is the design that I will be building that I bought crossover bits from you for, its very similar to that cab you posted and your MX600 in the mids. Nothing new except as is plainly obvious from the pics the cab is a 4560 style design with a larger ported rear chamber and a different spec for the drivers. All of these types of cabs are very similar MT122, MT102, MX600, M212, Omnitop2x12 etc. the only real difference being with the fitzmaurice designs is the absolute sizes of the flare and the fact that the entire build is documented from start to finish including techniques for construction etc. So there is nothing particularly mystical about the design.
 
The fact that planman linked to the ENTIRE Tuba 30 plan is probably what set BGavin off.
 
Anyone could have drawn up a plan for a cab resembling the Omnitop2x12 by hand and posted it around several forums and it would have probably taken weeks before anyone realised it was a copy of someone elses plan. 
 
To that end I pose a question, how close does it need to be to something else before its a copy?
Could you change 1 dimension 1mm and its a completely different design? If you just post the dimensions of the box drawn up in a different way to the original without any details of how to build it is that still a breach of copyright?
 
All of these seem to fall into a grey area, has anyone here got enough legal expertise to explain this?
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 08 August 2007 at 8:06am

The copyrite is broken if in court where they would give it the laymans test. An outsider would be asked if one box looks the same in essence as the other. One box could be twice as large as the other, but it would make no difference. The most dangerous one to be caught up in is passing off, where you are deliberately misleading by saying what you have copied is the genuine artical or calling it the same.

The grey area for me is whether people technically have copyrite. The drawing must exist before the artical is produced. This doesn't have to be a technical drawing, it can be the original sketch. If the cab (for instance) is produced before the drawing then copyrite can't apply.

Very few real designers would ever draw planes for production unless they have made the cabs and know that they work. Because of this situation I would guess there can't be too much protection out in the field for most of the cabs that exist today.

I have been in the high court with this so I am talking from past experience.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 08 August 2007 at 12:53pm

So in essence even if a bass horn for example had an identical response to another but was a different shape or design due to a slightly different fold it wouldnt be the same horn? Not that thats likely to happen in the real world but just hypothetical. But say for example I went and refolded the 1850 Horn to put it in a different shaped box, would it then be a different horn?

Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 08 August 2007 at 1:03pm
performance doesn't come into it. It's only what it looks like. If someone made a roller with a mini engine in it, they would get done.

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Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 08 August 2007 at 3:17pm

So technically you might be able to sue bill for copying your M212?

Crazy stuff!
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 08 August 2007 at 4:33pm

or somebody elses 2x12. Drawings have to be dated and backed up otherwise we could all doodle and put 5th March 1763. on it. although the biro would give it away I suppose.

-------------
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Posted By: pooju
Date Posted: 08 August 2007 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by Disco Stu Disco Stu wrote:

To that end I pose a question, how close does it need to be to something else before its a copy?


Obviously Tony's name speaks for his experience, he'll know more than me and most, but i think in the u.k. there has to be 7 'significant differences' to a design - that is that the copier/defence has to prove.

anyone remember asda getting in trouble from ripping off other clothing designs, in the papers and i think there was even a tv documentary on it? Asda got to close to the wire and had to burn a lot of stuff ...  they still pay people to go and snoop designs, fashion shows etc, loads of companies do it and have been for donkeys years.

but i think from reading up on  it some time ago i seem to remember that, like the 'person of competence' required for pat testing, exactly what constitutes a 'significant difference' was a bit vague and essentially a judgment call.

for a layman and the likes of Rog and Tony ... and any speaker nonce, the concepts of significant differences are going to be world apart. But this is internet info, still .gov sites, but not speaking to anyone direct.  Whe're the lawyer come speaker perverts?

-


Posted By: DAVID_L_PERRY
Date Posted: 15 August 2007 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

.......Does paying for it really not make you want to share it. Thats a perfect business.


I have purchased the full set of plans from Bill
I would not share them purely on the grounds that it's his request not to do so and his business loss if I did so. 

The reality is that the plans cost very little to an individual, and are way more than simple drawings, and have masses of construction photos.

When you are posting on Bills forum, the man himself will answer generally within a few hours of the post being made....they are genuinely worth every penny in my view.

The plans are constantly being updated and anybody who has purchased a set of plans can obtain the latest version free of charge as long as they can confirm the original purchase date and email...

Dave





Posted By: pooju
Date Posted: 15 August 2007 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by DAVID_L_PERRY DAVID_L_PERRY wrote:

Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

.......Does paying for it really not make you want to share it. Thats a perfect business.


I have purchased the full set of plans from Bill
I would not share them purely on the grounds that it's his request not to do so and his business loss if I did so. 

The reality is that the plans cost very little to an individual, and are way more than simple drawings, and have masses of construction photos.

When you are posting on Bills forum, the man himself will answer generally within a few hours of the post being made....they are genuinely worth every penny in my view.

The plans are constantly being updated and anybody who has purchased a set of plans can obtain the latest version free of charge as long as they can confirm the original purchase date and email...

Dave





btw i wasn't suggesting its ok to distribute the plans, 100% agree with David L Perry.

I wonder how much that level of advice/aftercare would cost from a utility company or a major brand ... technics enigneers want £75 a hour labour ... not that their expertise isn't hard earned mind, just not essentially free is it ...especially considering how well bill must know his product.




Posted By: AlfieDring
Date Posted: 21 August 2007 at 12:52am
Any more pics of these omni's? How heavy do they end up?  If i built them with the bottom section out of 18mm ply would it be safe to put a tophat in and pole mount them or are they too big / heavy?

Alf


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 27 August 2007 at 10:50am
You wont need to build them with 18mm ply the 12mm is strong enough but if you feel a need to reinforce just put a double thickness of ply where the top hat should go.
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: JazzyRick
Date Posted: 27 August 2007 at 1:16pm
Ridiculous. The copyright isn't just in regards to the layout and look of a cabinet. Bills plans are 20-30 pages of instructions with pictures and diagrams. This isn't a 2 page CAD drawing with some measurements on it. Even if it was it's Bills right to sell them and profit from the sales of the plans. Some people give away plans that only work well with certain drivers that can't be gotten anywhere but through the cabinet designer to make money. Some choose to just charge a nominal fee for the plans.

$15 USD for a set of speaker plans, when you are probably going to spend upwards of $300 USD for the speakers is nothing. There is certainly enough information over there on Bills site that you can surmise whether the design is a good one for you before you buy them.


-------------
-Richard Rajchel

The Cool Waters Band
http://www.coolwatersband.com - http://www.coolwatersband.com
http://www.vectorcds.com - CD Duplication by Vector CDs


Posted By: pooju
Date Posted: 27 August 2007 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by JazzyRick JazzyRick wrote:


$15 USD for a set of speaker plans, when you are probably going to spend upwards of $300 USD for the speakers is nothing. There is certainly enough information over there on Bills site that you can surmise whether the design is a good one for you before you buy them.


not being difficult Rick, but doesn't this forum do that and more? its just up to the consumer not the designer to make a judgment on what to trust and compile?

- but you're dead right that his plans/guide does give you a lot more reassurance than plain schematics if your experience isn't equal to Bills. 


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 27 August 2007 at 8:37pm
Jazzy Rick has raised an interesting point in my mind, because what bill sells are merely plans, if an occasion came about where someone built one of these plans and then someone thought it looked like a preexisting product... who would be liable? The designer for the design or the builder for building the design?
 
Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches



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