InfraHorn for X1?
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: X1
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the X1 sub
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11032
Printed Date: 19 April 2024 at 8:54am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: InfraHorn for X1?
Posted By: adambomb
Subject: InfraHorn for X1?
Date Posted: 26 July 2007 at 3:08pm
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Hi All,
just wondering, in theory, could I create an "infrahorn" type device to attach to my X1s? or maybe a pair of X1s..
I know the FK1 design has a port int he middle nd the horn is started fromt here, but maybe I could do something simlier, kinda like large W for the X1?
An interesting experiment maybe? or a complete waste of time?
Cheers,
Adam.
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Replies:
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 08 August 2007 at 12:23am
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I've had that very same thought ,should be easy enough to find out.got a few sheets of ply lying around(handy working on building sites!criminal what they throw away)any ideas on plans/stacking?I use a block of four,so maybe a double W Bin! ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:28pm
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Revival of an old thread.. prompted by the infrabass plan request...
I'm think I might give this a go..
I stack / need to stack with 2 each side... but this could be made stackable so it's no problem as long as you have 2...
Heres my first idea...
 ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:28pm
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first thing that comes to mind is transportation is going to be a right pain in the arse
------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:30pm
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I would have thought this is going to need some kind of locking / bolting system to attach to the X1s.. to keep it from rattling etc.
Thinking about it, not too bad to transport.. just take up allota room... wonder if this could be made callapsable? ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:43pm
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you could try it but i dont think its worth it... you may as well just build some more x1's [and load them with some proper drivers] ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:47pm
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hmmm...
I know I know.. may have to update the drivers in mine at some point.. need to try them properly first... however I am wondering if it's worth it for a db or 2.
Problem with more X1s is that they wouldnt stack well.. with infrhorns I could go al Fk1 like.. and maybe get another 6db (12 I doubt very much).
------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:55pm
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:58pm
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share em out then... lets see em!!!
I like the flare rate idea, could very port to port.. I wonder is hornresp could be used to do this... I guess its almost like the horn on the HD15..
Don't you think the above would benfit from a larger mouth?
------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 12 November 2007 at 11:59pm
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its that old iron law [or something] that i keep hitting...
either the box is huge, or you need lots of amp power to get low. at the mo i have opted to try the power route but even that is getting silly as i will need one proline3000 size amp to run one cabinet AND the driver cost a bomb ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 12:00am
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hmmmm... don't get me started again.. I blame you for the last building session.... but your right.. a pile of 8 / 9 X1s sounds rather good... ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 12:07am
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dont build any more subs yet or buy any new drivers... i have been playing around with a design in winisd that looks good. let me save some cash to buy the drivers then i will build it.... takes alot of juice though 3000w rms at 2 ohms. i think it will go low, exactly how low i dont know ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 12:11am
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Hmmm.. sounds interesting!
Kepp me posted  ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 12:23am
3 drivers, ports around 450mm, plays down to 28hz... all theory though ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 12:26am
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wouldnt you start getting port noise if you put an infra style horn on the x1? ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 1:16am
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which driver are you planning on using hbl??? ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 5:52pm
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Hi Adam, Im very interested in building a prototype or two,I think if you can get 2-3 db more out of them it's worth a couple of hours building time.Plus the x1's get a little lost looking under my Martins which stick out over the top of them.Would make my rig look sweet!Got plenty of ply, although it aint the best ply, it's free (which is the best ply when your skint!)Are you ever in Exeter? ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 6:20pm
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not been to exeter for a long time... but that doesn't mean to say I couldn't... its not that far from me...
I think it's worth a pop.... looking at the FK1 horn extension there is a throat / mouth to the horn (if you see what I mean).. so I think it might need a bit more design work than just sticking a big triangle on the front... BUT I reckon just trying it with a three bits of ply (stacked like cards).. might give us a clue as to wether its worth bothering...
@HBL.. can't see how a horn extension would effect port velocity?
Thoughts? ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: JaKe
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 7:02pm
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I think the horn is going to dampen the resonance of the port/chamber combination and therefore it may be worth making a slightly underdamped design - also make it easy to change the tunings for the prototype to see how well the concept works for you. Would using a series tuned setup work? or looking at HBL drawing, maybe port the rear chamber just in front of drivers 1+3? JaKe |
Posted By: gazman
Date Posted: 13 November 2007 at 9:00pm
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Heathrow that last design you posted is almost identical to a D&B B2...which seems to work well enough! |
Posted By: josh
Date Posted: 16 April 2008 at 4:06pm
| how on earth would i go about modeling it though, well i suppose thats a silly question is an akabak job isnt it. |
Posted By: jonminns
Date Posted: 22 April 2008 at 7:09pm
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Any progress with this folks? Never designed horns before so not sure where to start? - but i'm taken with the idea! Jon |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 22 April 2008 at 7:40pm
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Im not too sure how to go about it, you could model one half of the x1 with a flair at a time and see what works....? Or get some chip board and try it out! (brace well!)
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Posted By: jonminns
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 10:48pm
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Without sounding thick i really don't have a clue where to start, building yes ok i can do that, designing hmmmm.... maybe not? Anyone fancy giving me some pointers? or coming up with a design?
Thanks
Jon
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Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 11:10pm
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An easy experiment might be...
Get 2 boards of chipboard / MDF the same hieght as an X1, approx 1.5m long.
Get another board approx 1m x 3m.
Stack the above forming a horn sides with the smaller bits and a lid with the other bit.... and do some plots... from there we can get a rough idea how much of an effect it has on the response.. and if it's worth pursueing.
I reckon it is worth trying... I might have a go if the weather holds out for a few days. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: jonminns
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 11:21pm
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If i had some x1s to test with i'd be happy to, however i don't currently, they're on the build list. Got a club interested in the idea for a refit in august, 2 x dance stack soundalikes... Per side: 1 off 2x1 with horn, 2 off hd215, 2 off mid top of some description?
Jon
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Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 01 September 2008 at 8:29am
| could the x1 be redesigned so both ports are together?, then a very similar design to the f1 horn could be used. personally id design a horn that can slide over two x1's during transport. like a russian doll. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 01 September 2008 at 11:08am
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not possible to redesign to get the ports together...
I'm openign this book again... experiments will follow... ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 01 September 2008 at 12:03pm
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Adam, I have stacks of rough ply that needs to be used for something.I think an infrahorn would be the best use of it!
I thought of making one that bolts together so it can be flatpacked when in storage/transit. Do you reckon a simple barn door style extension would do it or does it need to be more complex so that both ports have there own horn section? I would also like to try out barn doors for the 215s as that can be easily achieved. I think a building day is in order followed by testing! ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 01 September 2008 at 12:11pm
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I thought about having some kinda tringle thing to go on the front face to effectively form 2 ports... would need to be shaped correctly to get the right flare rate (I guess).
Build / test day is defo in order. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: WhiteElephantSounds
Date Posted: 01 September 2008 at 3:17pm
| Also very intrested in this, we talking for original shape or letterboxes? Might be easier to fit a decent sized flair between the ports on a letterbox x1. |
Posted By: minns25
Date Posted: 01 September 2008 at 4:04pm
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Yep also very interested in this as i was from the start, i now have a void loaded x1 (soon to be 2) so am willing to help/contribute in any way i can
Thanks
Jon
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Posted By: Steak'n'ale
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:18am
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Been reading this thread and thinking (yeah, dangerous I know). The purpose of this seems to be to make a massive bandpass horn that could do a similar job to the F1 Infrabass. Am I missing something here as the F1 is a 4th order bandpass where the 1 and only port fires into the horn wheras the X1 is a 6th order and the two ports will roughly have opposite phase. Surely the resulting 6th order BPH would have similar phase cancellation issues to something like a tapped horn or scoop and sound completely different to an Infrabass? |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 12:47pm
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Tapped horn doesn't have phase cancellation issues or anything like that, if you read the theory again, it uses the rear loaded design to actually increase it's output (think 1/4 wave horn + 1/2 wave horn incorporating mouth reflection and you'll see what I mean). Now, with that out of the way... Consider the Tasco Harwell design. If both horns on the sides of the bin were identically tuned, the design would actually achieve full cancellation. However, they are different horns. Behold the similarity to the X1, each chamber on the side of the 18 is tuned differently. If the X1 had opposite phase with the same frequencies coming out of either port, the design would not work at all, even without the horn flare. Now, consider each chamber as a horn in itself tuned to the frequency the chamber is tuned to, incorporating the chamber as front chamber volume and the port as a simple manifold...that can be modeled in hornresp. So, we're just amplifying the output from either port when designing this, but not changing the tuning... I can picture a big asymmetrical horn flare on two X1s, how about you? ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 4:55pm
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Hmmm... can anyone give me any hints on modelng this..
Deadbeat... I / We want to design this for 2 X1s stacked next to each other... I can sort of picture what you mean.. but could you do us a simple paint sketch to get a clearer picture???
------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 5:24pm
I was thinking it would be better with two/three X1s stacked on top of each other?Now I'm more fuzzy than normal!!Or are you thinking of a block of four?sh*t we got to prototype to find out i reckon...unless anyone can simulate it...anyone?  ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: WhiteElephantSounds
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 7:31pm
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Rough idea to see if were all on the same page. Think it should be made to fit two x1s on top of each other.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/2681636330103582781bGccQy">
 |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 7:43pm
Thats along the lines I had been thinking,maybe a bit bigger though!also shouldn't the lower freq port have a larger portion of the horn?(sounds a bit pot noodle!)  ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: minns25
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 9:44pm
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Im still confused on the way an x1 should be stacked, should the driver not face upwards with the longer (low freq) port on the ground to extend it?
I also think that the horn needs to work for 2 x X1 stacked side by side
Jon
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Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 03 September 2008 at 12:00am
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I always go with both ports to the floor, with the longer port together when in pairs, but others go with the low tuned port to the floor... might be worth experimenting but from memory I think Rogs reccomendation was both to the floor. Stacking 2 high is great for mid-top hieght, but a bit high for putting kick bins, then mid-highs on... bit too high.I think the above is close.. but I think the horn would need to be longer and they would also need to be asseymetrical... hmmm...
I think there are more sketches on here somwhere.. HBL did one with assimetrical horns I seam to remember.
We can also make this "bolt together" quite easily with T-Nuts and bolts (like the FK1 cab). ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 03 September 2008 at 12:18am
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If you have a port resting on the floor it will act as if it is slightly longer (I think you add half its width to the overall length) lowering the tuning. As Rog designed it for both to be on the ground i'd leave it like that.
This reminds me of some deep thinking i have been doing recently regarding ports.... mmmmmmm pooooorrrrttttssss......
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Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:18pm
My idea was the same, except with two X1s joined together, and the 'nose' bent to accommodate a larger horn for the lower tuned chamber, and the two lower tuned ones together for a bigger mouth. The entire thing would be radiused and look a bit like the world's largest Martin 215 from above...only it would be a 218 wouldn't it? I think that since we're hornloading the ports the end correction from the floor won't matter as much, but a redesign of this could be facilitated. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
WhiteElephantSounds wrote:Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:25pm
could the x1 be redesigned into two parts and re arranged so the space between the two flares is used as the internal volume?
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Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:28pm
like this?
 or like this:
 ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:40pm
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A combination between the two, like the first one but with extended 'noses' into the flare done like the second. I have an idea of redoing it to be vertical, but it would require a hell of a lot more bracing due to the 'nose thing' being suspended. @rich at that size, I would think doing a double sided horn from scratch would be the best bet, I believe this is like the barndoor - just to squeeze every last amount from those two drivers in existing boxes. Making that chamber bigger would lower the tuning on the lower chamber in an ordinary BP format and decrease the cutoff of any horn attached to it... ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:46pm
Would this work if the x1 was made with both ports next to eachother?
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Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:48pm
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Interesting idea Rich.. if your building from scratch...
I want to design / build this hornextension to work with normal X1s tho. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:52pm
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i think i got carried away:) i want to build a single x1 style cab and will prob use a 15" driver. might build it with the ports next to eachother to allow an add on extension.
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Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:53pm
Reminds me of one of BFM's designs. If you look on FSP's 'MAGICBOX' thread, you'll see lengthy discussion on the merits of that approach. Also talk to Jake (not Fielder) on this forum, he's got experience of porting into the throat of a horn. Though that's the first one I've seen like that. Most likely it would have a sharper lower cutoff. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 3:58pm
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sounds like it might work then:)
cant find magicbox on the search function.. got a link?
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Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 4:01pm
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One of our pet projects over there, my 215 is still under progress (as well as the FSP-Array top, you get what I mean) http://freespeakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=454&PN=1 - http://freespeakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=454&PN=1 ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 8:51am
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Adam, you mentioned some tips from Tony Andrews on X1 infrahorn design, care to share?
------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 9:48am
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yea...
He said it will work, but we will need to experiment with the expansion rate (took him ages with the infra).. It needs to be a fairly low impedence horn, fairly rapid expansion rate... I think we need a combination of HBLs first pic in this thread and mine with the diagonal walls on the outside... Will also need to play with the "triangle" bits to get the flare rate right... Can anyone give me any pointers on how to model this in hornresp? I'm think it will probably be 2 models, 1 for each port. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 10:39am
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best be done in akabak for the experienced guys unlike me. It's not very widely known that hornresp does BP (and can do loads of really weird alignments). I'd make two models as you said, one with the rear chamber the lower tuned port and one with the higher tuned port. Ideally, hornresp would be able to model a double horn, but it doesn't. So with the front flare, we have a massive front chamber (the chamber in front of the driver), with the first section of the horn being a straight pipe (the port), then the expansion (the horn). ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 3:13pm
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'Best done in Akabak'
Did a quick model -
Here are my inputs: Front chamber tuned lower:
S1=684
S2=684
con=43.50
vrc=62
lrc=50.40
ap=684
lpt=26
vtc=189000
atc=2520
Front chamber higher tuned:
S1=684
S2=684
con=26
lrc=50.40
ap=684
lpt=43.50
vtc=62000
atc=2520
I have had good results with other bandpass and hybrid alignements.
*Well, if you find any changes I have inadverdently made, please let me know ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 3:32pm
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I take back all that I said and add some.
Yet another strikethrough. Latest version of hornresp (download it NOW) doesnot have any problem with straight pipes
 PS- Feel free to experiment with longer port lengths to compensate for end correction (and a port being flush to the floor etc), currently both models look very nice, except for the cutoff at around 40hz. the X1 goes lower. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 7:44pm
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Adam, have you had a go? I find adjusting port length does make the response a whole lot more realistic, bit of a trial and error thing with Rog's charts at hand though. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 8:25pm
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will now... THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: David McBean
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:36am
Hi Deadbeat,
Are you using the latest release, Product Number 1940-080908?
Kind regards,
David
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Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 2:30pm
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Haven't checked the product number on the version I was using, will try (staggered and straight port models) with the latest and post what I experience. Thanks omar PS David, have you ever considered putting in a function for dual horns? Just wondering...either a backwards section form or maybe an option to join two models pipe dreams... ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 5:56pm
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Product number was 1940-080-724 Downloaded the latest version, and...it's working perfectly with straight ports!
Thanks alot David!
Will update the models on this page to match ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 6:06pm
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UPDATE 2:
Just got backon the workstation, things are looking great!
Increasing theport length a bit does get the graph looking like Rog's as I have said it is a bit of trial and error. Haven't finalised the numbers for it, should be up in a bit.
Have been enperimenting mainly with the LF port, (not) surprisingly, the two models give different results, which is what we are looking at.
I am not sure how hornresp models multiples of this cab, I may have to make up another model for two X1s sharing a single extension. David, how does it work?
Quite a bit of neat extension can be easily achieved... ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 8:10pm
This is getting interesting...Omar if you can figure this out on paper. I would love to be the first to build one,as it would be great for the Castle party i'm doing  (see unmoderated section) .Hmmm... can i build two in time...------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 8:23pm
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19th september... I'll see what I can do. Will put aside the pipe dream bin for a bit . Hope other people are active on this front (not the magicbox, but this little project). X1 owners who don't mind a bit of hornresping ahoy!How many X1s are you taking out for a bit of a spin? Omar ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 8:28pm
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6 I believe... ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 8:30pm
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Deadbeat.. any chance you could post a screen grab of your hornresp input screen? and details of anything else I need to get it working.
I'm a complete dunce with hornresp.. but I know I could learn it if I had something to start with.
Cheer..A. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 8:44pm
Download the latest program (VERY IMPORTANT), I'll attempt to post my input screen in a bit (hornresp can't run on the com I'm posting on). Hornresp has a steep initial learning curve...the X1 probably isn't the best one to learn it with, not exactly being a horn (yet), but we'll start from here  omar ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:04pm
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I have the latest version but I cant seam to find everywere I need to enter your data :( I know it's probably not the easiest thing to start with.. but it is something that captures my interest long enough to learn it (the problem I have had before is getting nowhere with a design I'm only looking at to learn the prog... and thus loosing interest... if you see what I mean). Thanks for your help so far! ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:22pm
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Here's my inputs. Remember when you click calculate, it will look crazy, so once you are on 'SPL Response', go on 'Tools' - 'Combined response', then, leaving the value at 0, click calculate on the popup.
LPT is the rear port length, Con is front port length. Which chamber it is depends on the model.
Here's the mediafire link, my image hosting is not working
 . http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=88bd8eb62b9c74b3d2db6fb9a8902bda - http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=88bd8eb62b9c74b3d2db6fb9a8902bda
------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:26pm
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Your a gent! Many Thanks. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:38pm
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See.. this is what I get everytime...
I can't press the calculate button as apparently : ERROR: S2 = 0.00
 Other than that my screen look identical to yours.. I have the latest download. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: WhiteElephantSounds
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:39pm
| I have absolutally no clue when it comes to hornresp or anyother simulation programs for that matter but is there any indication yet as to what sort of possible gain these 'infra'horns could create and over what frequency? Tom |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:39pm
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Could you post a pic of your predicament?
------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:42pm
Bit of modeling shows that doing one for the lower ports actually turns it into a ported horn sort of thing only the other way round - surprisingly the cab's extension is lowered. I suspect that making horns for both sides would both increase overall efficiency but actually also lower the cutoff significantly. Extension to 20-25hz anyone  .Edit: this is evident already in the Infrahorn for the Infrabass actually. Look at the given ratings - lower extension, more efficiency. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:43pm
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Sorry I'm a dunce... don it..
peaky init! around the 40hz mark... BIIIG lump..
ah.. stupid again.. this is just the response from the lower port... combine that with the other.. sorry dummy. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:45pm
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is the SPL response correct at 1w? (2.83v)... how does this compare to the standard X1? How much gain are we getting? ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:48pm
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If you look at the schematic window, you can see it's just a plain jane X1. You might also want to make the ports a bit longer to get the bare response of the X1 down to 31hz. Now, put on a 1m long horn on it... ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:50pm
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are these models with no horn atall? Should I be adding horn segments? Eit : thank you, you replied..
This is cool... for the first time hornresp is becoming exciting (for me). ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 9:56pm
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heheh... mad... driver is still within usuable excursion soo low now... 25hz in sight... LOVE THIS... thank you deadbeat!!! ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:10pm
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If you notice, I have put the voltage up as I like to simulate at 1000W for diaphragm displacement reasons (the thing that says 89.something) . 2.83 as you know will give 1W. Select Directivity under tools for 1W/1M on axis. Edit: Too quick for me ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:16pm
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As Adam says there will now be will now six X1s in attendace(cheers Adam for bringing two of yours) )
sh*t that means three horns...unless we model it for three X1s stacked vertically!What do you reckon? Not sure If I'll be able to do this in time, as I'm really busy at the mo ,but it would make the Castle night for me! I can picture it know... Left arch loaded with the JBL TCB 218 on sub,Novasound 215s x3 above,then the 2 phillis and 2 tops...same in the right arch...Dj's in the middle arch...then two to three stacks of X1 Infrahorn madness between the two cannons at the front!!!! Adam do you fancy building one or two?? ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:23pm
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If I can get the design right... the hard part is caused by the 2 ports being at either end of the cab... its going to end up pretty damn wide...
Playing with the initial expansion rate at the mo, sticking to 1m length.
I have been naughty and used the mouth area and length on the single FK1 infrahorn for my model...
I know the real thing has a gradual expansion, horn does not go straight diagonaly from mouth.. so seeing how it works...
With 1000w displacement is cool down sub 30hz... and peak SPL for 1 cab is reaching for 135db at 32ish hz.
Schweeet.
I'll Keep playing..  ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:25pm
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AAAGGGHHH!!! I forgot something important! Adam, quick, change your model to 2 cabs in parallel! It should be available under the multiple speakers option. Quick band aid solution...we need David to tell us what's under the hood regarding multiples. alternatively, we could model a massive one for a stack of X1s 3 high and two wide... I am going to revise the model so it will be more accurate for a pair, hopefully. Or even six... Enough bass for you and yer knights of the round table .------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:25pm
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I wish hornresp had a "live" excursion and spl window while editing params.. dream on... ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:26pm
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adam, can you post schematic diagrams? i'm getting right confused...
------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:28pm
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haha... now we are reaching for 140db @ 30hz ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:32pm
 ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:33pm
Personally I think a window where 4 hornresp windows could be displayed in would be great, with buttons to make windows up to date... What have we spawned? I think it deserves a cooler name .------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:37pm
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ahhhh. Adam, is there a reason why the rear chamber is sealed instead of ported? Have you accidentally forgotten to click it from Fr and Tal to become ported horn values? Look at my screencaps again and see the exact labels... And also try modeling multiples...when you've fixed the model. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:38pm
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XXX Horn?
Über Horn? ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:39pm
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I was thinking the the length would be determined by the width of a sheet of ply... so 1.2m then hopefully we ca squeeze the width out of 2.4m...what do you think?
Cooler names...Horn of plenty... Foghorn ..leghorn?! ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:44pm
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now it models flatter... but not so stupid on SPL...
More playing... but learnt alot.. didnt now you could click on things even.. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:45pm
Nice. We have to work with existing ply sizes...but it has to depend on stacking. How are you going to do it (cabs x cabs) Cool names...shoehorn  ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:50pm
brilliant. Now if you use both models, you may be able to regain a bit of efficiency by whacking horns on both ports - this is how I'd do it: 1. Load model 1 with horn extension on one port 2. Get SPL response 3. Ctrl-C to capture 4. Load model 2 with horn extension on the other port 5. Get SPL response 6. Now look on 'tools' and you will see 'compare captured' 7. Click on that 8. Now you have both plots overlayed Make sure that both horns are compatible with each other length and width ways when we eventually draw it out. Arbitrarily use the multiple cabs function for experimentation. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:07pm
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This is good stuff!
I think it has to be based around 2 next to each other, lower ports together. Simply stack 2 or more for even more low end.
If its going to be almost a full sheet of ply we are going to have to put effort into bracing and some way of attaching it to the X1s...
FK1 uses bolts.. HBL suggested slots and ratchet straps.. sounds good to me! ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:15pm
[/QUOTE]
The stacking will be determined by the ply size I'd say,unless we start to use more sheets on the top and bottom of the horn ...gets a bit more complicated that way...  ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:20pm
Can you sim both..vertically stacked and horizontally and find out which has the best output?..unless as you suggest Adam we go for broke and stack six together two wide three high? ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:26pm
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3 high 2 wide would be the best option...
2 horizontal would also be the best option for 2 bins alone (I believe, more floor contact area).
Would have to build 3 horns tho.. bracing is already going to be a challenge.
Should just about do it on one sheet...
Gunna take a good 3 sheets to build one.
------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:28pm
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This is going to look MEAN with martin / novasound 215s on top.
Just realised my model has another hole... the X1 is taller, so the mouth area is not big enough... playing again. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:36pm
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f**k yeah!
Who's the Daddy now! Maybe i'll ditch the JBLs and go with ...whatever we are calling it underneath... ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |