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ls2000 nexo

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Category: Plans
Forum Name: Plan Requests
Forum Description: All plan requests here
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12018
Printed Date: 12 April 2021 at 10:46pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: ls2000 nexo
Posted By: stevo
Subject: ls2000 nexo
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 9:22pm
hi anyone got plans for these?



Replies:
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 23 December 2007 at 9:58pm
will be able to do some soon - im getting 4 in january!


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 10:10am
hi thanks that would be good ,regards


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 10:14am
4 0f them , where are you based ? about 5 years ago the company i worked for sold 4 of them , as i wasnt set up then ,didnt have a chance to do it my self


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 5:37pm
im based in luton, but im buying them from france. who did you work for?


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 24 December 2007 at 6:19pm
oh right  , i worked for a company called chasestereo promotions used to do a lot of indoor and outdoor events and concerts , used to use ls2000 under ev t251+s, they have got a lot of kick i think in my eyes one of the best subs i have ever used , i know the company sold them in this country i think they did end up near your area , must admit you will build muscles lifting them in and out
regards


Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 27 December 2007 at 8:31pm
any thing new on this sub? 


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 27 December 2007 at 9:09pm
i havent picked mine up yet, but have paid the deposit so i know they are not going anyware else. ill be happy to open them up and have a measure up once ive got them as they look like a very clever design - push pull 6th order bandpass. its an old design so im sure nexo wont mind.
interesting to see that by nexos own mesurements and specs the ls2000 outperforms the current alpha s2 sub in every way - lower, louder etc! i guess they had to make the s2 the same format as the rest of the rig...


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 9:07am
lets say 4 of them kick a lot of butt ! if you had more of them just rip you to bits they defantly go right low and loud, we use to use them on qsc amps  , csg whats your intended use for these ?


Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 1:57pm
This was copied off one in a club we worked at. Fixed the 18" because they ran the controller without wiring the sese-drive. I tink it sclose enough, I did the measuring in the dark.

img255/938/nexols1200jd4.jpg


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 5:11pm
good plan, but thats the ls1200, not the ls2000 which is a twin 18 and very different beast. the ls1200 is an interesting unit though, how did they work without the controller?
 
im intending on using my ls2000 with 4 stacks of nexo si2000 to fill in the 25 - 50hz band. from 50 up the si2000 bins are great, but they just miss that bottom octave. the rig doesent get used a great deal, but i do have a few jobs for it over the summer.
once ive got the whole rig sorted properly i might be offering a free hire or two so i can get everything tuned up right before the summer. Amp wise, ill be using an amp which is identical to a camco tecton 32.4 (yes, identical, ive carried out a detailed comparison), as i use these amps on the rest of the rig. they output 1600w / ch to 4 ohms, so i will be offering each sub 3200w ( the controller will restrict this, but i hate running amps hard)
 
will keep you posted
chris


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 28 December 2007 at 5:49pm

we used a berry ultracurve instead of controller work very well , the amps sound good any chance of giving us the brand

regards



Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 29 December 2007 at 2:08am
where do u load the drivers?


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 02 January 2008 at 10:29pm
the amps i use come from a dutch car audio company called us blaster ( yes, i know...) who seem to be moving into " pro audio"
do a google for it - the amp code is usb 7140
 
its a stunningly good amp for the money
 
on the ls2000, the drivers are mounted on a diagonal baffle within the cab - one driver facing each way. each side of the baffle vents ot the front of the cab via the 3 ports, some of which are ducted. thats all i know at the moment, but i should have mine in a couple of weeks


Posted By: simo69
Date Posted: 05 January 2008 at 5:18pm

How much was the USB amp ??

Where can you get them from?


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http://sims-audio.co.uk/


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 06 January 2008 at 11:13pm
i can get them for you - price is approx £575 + vat. pm me for further info if you are interested
i can usually get a good deal from the uk distributer as ive bought over 20 in the last year


Posted By: simo69
Date Posted: 08 January 2008 at 7:43pm

Hi

can you get them anytime?

My email is:  mailto:shaun.symmonds@btinternet.com - shaun.symmonds@btinternet.com


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http://sims-audio.co.uk/


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 08 January 2008 at 8:00pm
yep - price fluctuates a bit, but shoudnt move too much


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 12 January 2008 at 12:51pm

.



Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 12 January 2008 at 12:51pm



Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 12 January 2008 at 12:53pm
any news on your ls2000?
just a matter of intrest how much did your ompus go in the end ?
my computer just had a mad one
 regards


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 13 January 2008 at 7:18pm
im going to france on the 28th to collect the ls2000's, been too busy with work.
 
the opus went for £1300, could have been better, but i got my money back on them, so thats good enough. got collected yesterday


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 9:05pm
hi ya any news on your ls2000's?


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 31 January 2008 at 12:58am
hello, just back from france, anf yes i do have the ls2000 at last !
 
sound very mean hooked up in the back of the van! havent had time to fire them up properly, will do that at the weekend.
for all those wanting plans, i will be haqving a close look at them next week, and will take some detailed photos. I am hopeless with cad, but will do some hand drawings with dimentions etc when i have the chance
they certainly look like they will move a lot of air!


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 05 February 2008 at 9:48pm
hows your new babies?? did you have to travel far into france to collect ? regards


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 05 February 2008 at 10:47pm
ony a 700mile round trip.
 
well, these are unique subs - i sent them out with a 5k club hire last weekend as a freebie extra, so i could fire them up properly. when you first turn them on, you think whats the fuss about? - there not doing much. then you listen, and realise they are adding such a deep but dry foundation to the music, you cant hear the transition from the bass to the sub.
 
the nexo controller brings them in at 28hz, and out at 55 or 75 hz, depending on the rig you are using above them, and they integrate seemlessly. they dont sound that loud on their own, but 28 to 55 or 75hz never will. they just sound completely different and natural. quite a supprise. very different and much cleaner sounding than the newer alpha s2 sub.
 
im going to be taking a look inside over the next couple of days, and will take some pics then. not long i promise!
i think a lot of the dryness is due to the controller. the full range signal goes in the ls2000 controller, and that controler has a filtered main system output to feed into the td controller for the main rig ( in my case si2000 or msi-v). This will have a lot to do with the feeling of integration. after all, it was designed to work together.
 
I think these will make a very interesting diy project - these i think will work much better then most nexo speakers without the controller. a good setting on a good lms unit will sort that out.
 
will be back soon with pics


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 09 February 2008 at 8:07pm
so which part of the uk are you from ? what kind of thing do you do, pa hire ? regards


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 09 February 2008 at 9:10pm
i saw Chris's ls2000 today...its alot smaller then i thought it would be.
 
some should design some sort of horn for it to try and make it abit more directional/louder
 
img231/2680/82572822av6.jpg
 
 
as the port is in the middle of the cab it would be quite easy to knock something up
 
 


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 09 February 2008 at 11:19pm
im based in luton, but travel around a fair bit. i do a bit of pa hire, but its only really a serious hobby, as im a concert lighting rigger by trade.
 
good to meet you Heathrow, and put a face to a name. since im so useless at CAD, it would be great if you could model the ls2000 and also the matching si2000 bass bin at some point, i can lend you one of each for a week or so at some point.
 
To all those interested in the l sub, the si2000 bass section will be well worth looking at. its efficiency matched, power matched and is designed to work with the ls2000. it runs from 55 to 250hz when used with the ls2000. and interestingly, as its a hot topic at the mo, it is a horn using a reflex tuned rear chamber. i can testifty that pairs of these used together are brutal in a very rare way!
 
since these subs are designed to do a similar job to the f1 infrasub, it would make a very interesting project to have a look at some flares to improve directivity and throw when used outside. Might need some more experienced horn brains than mine though.
 
So, Stevo, and all others interested, soon we should have some good plans to work from.
 
On the diy front, i have also fired these up now without the nexo td controller to see how they performed on a standard controller. the good news is that they seem to operate without the proprietry controller well, but obviously you loose the protection that the controller gives, so need to be more carefull when using high powers ( and nexo recommend 1200w rms per driver, 2400w per bin for full output).
i have also identified the driver as being the rcf l18-p200-4, so copies could be made using the correct driver. this will be critical as this design needs drivers with very low response and resonance as it runs to 28hz! good news is that these drivers are available, and not stupid money ( 180 quid)
Heathrow - one  speaker modeling oportunity might be late feb, early march when im quiet. let me know if you might have enough time around then
 
ps those hd215's look great, im looking forward to putting those rcf l15 p200ak's in and having a listen.


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 10 February 2008 at 12:28am
im from suffolk framlingham , been doing dj 'ing and pa hire for a company for 10 years decided to go solo a year ago as i didnt like the the way they worked ! its my life addicted to music , if i recall that company had upgraded the drivers to RCF 18P300's


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 10 February 2008 at 9:02am
whether thats an upgrade is debatable - with the nexo controllers changing drivers has the efect of removing the protection the controller gives, as the controller no longer had the right model of the driver buit in. the l18-300 is a great driver, but also does not drop as low as the 200.
i have been toying with the idea of trying some of the neo 18's from b&c , and having a listen, but the more i think about it, the more i think that they should be left as nexo designed them.
of courese, i might be wrong, and the bin might run better with rcf  300's inside!


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 10 February 2008 at 1:47pm
i cant find any info on th ls2000 or si2000 [in english anyway]
 
anyone got any datasheets they could share?


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 10 February 2008 at 2:40pm
if you go to the nexo site and do a search for ls2000 or  si2 it should bring up pdfs of the original spec sheets / service manuals. you may need to register on the site though, but that is simpe enough. they do have english pdfs for both systems. let me know if you are still stuck


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 13 February 2008 at 11:43pm
Heathrow_B_line, did you find data sheets ok ?


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 14 February 2008 at 12:57am
to be honest i have been abit busy/side tracked with other things so i havent got round to signing up with nexo etc.  i will try doing it when i have a spare moment


Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 14 February 2008 at 2:08pm
I've got all the SI docs saved locally so if they've gone missing from anywhere i can upload them somewhere.
 
Be interested in a LS2k plan if ones ever done as my friend who owns the SI2k rig has been looking for some DIY subs to go under them


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My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 14 February 2008 at 8:05pm

i have the data sheets now, many thanks to all. 

so the x1 is 100-101db/w and the ls2000 is 106db/w, does this mean one ls2000 cab would sound just as loud as 4 x1's or am i wrong?  also can someone post up or send me the si2000 data sheet as all i can find is the service manual for the controller.
 
lastly has anyone duplicated the nexo controller setting to a standard speaker management system, for example the ultradrive, and if so can they post them up
 
cheers


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 14 February 2008 at 8:43pm
i guess you could replicate the eq function of the controller using a spectrum analiser and analzing the rig with the processor in line , and then using a good parametric to simulate. all the other functions ( servo feedback functions etc) will be impossible to replicate as they are not functions covered by any management systems i am aware off.
HBL, sign in to the nexo site, and put si2 in the search box. this should being up the product brochure and spec sheets in english and french. If you are still having trouble i will see if i can copy and pdf it.
 
Norty, i have recently been playing with some Beyma neo units which may be good replacements for the audax mids - ive just put a pair into my nexo pc115w monitors which use the same mid drivers, and sound quality wise, they are spot on.
PAP are going to be talking to beyma to see if they can match the cone profile / dust cap of the audax driver so phase plug issues can be avoided, and apparently they can do small runs of oem variants of standard drivers, so that is looking promising. we would need to get some new back bowls made up in fibreglass, but that should be easy enough. so hopefully we will soon have a replacement solution for the mid driver


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 17 February 2008 at 11:08pm
what are the si2 like? never heard or seen them


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 18 February 2008 at 10:44pm
sodding loud with a great life to the sound. very quick bass with good transient response. a very very loud rig for its size.
 
HBL, if you just need to remove the side access panel and the drivers to mesure the l sub up, that is fine. i am happy to give you a hand with that one day. same goes for the si2000 bass section - we must get around to it soon!


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 19 February 2008 at 12:54am
if you think its possible Chris we can have a go, how simple is the layout?  any chance you can take the drivers out and t5ake a few pics so we have a rough idea what we are dealing with?
 
also can someone post up the si2000 info as i have had no luck finding them.  cheers


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 22 February 2008 at 7:26pm
did you find info si2000 ? would like to have a read


Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 22 February 2008 at 9:58pm
Hmm, looks as if Nexo have changed their site and stuff is in a different place now.  You need to have a login I believe, then go to Support, then Archived Documents.  All of the SI2 and LS docs are there.

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My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:26pm
any news on the ls2000?


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 29 February 2008 at 9:57pm
sorry to keep you waiting Stevo, im sure ill tie up with HBL soon to do a drawing. too busy with work at the moment.
got a pair of them going out tommorrow for a small club night - if i remember ill take the camera - im going to use them with my si2000 for the first time - should be interesting ( 12kw in a 8x10m room!)


Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 03 March 2008 at 10:40pm
I logged in,found some in french
It looks like the mid pinches in abit at 2khz.

Ah ha english with NICE measurements!
http://www.nexo-sa.com/user/data/tech_MiniIntegratedSystem_brochure_UK.pdf - http://www.nexo-sa.com/user/data/tech_MiniIntegratedSystem_brochure_UK.pdf
http://www.nexo-sa.com/asp/catalogue/catalogue.asp?p=1&m=n&linkid=773&prodcode=&q=&sortby=&perpage=&year=&catid=&subcatid=&subcatid2= - http://www.nexo-sa.com/asp/catalogue/catalogue.asp?p=1&m=n&linkid=773&prodcode=&q=&sortby=&perpage=&year=&catid=&subcatid=&subcatid2=


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 7:08am
how did the si get on with ls in the club?


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 8:44pm

very well - seemless integration between the ls and si bins - only a very small room, and totally over the top, but i did sound really sweet - pissed off the club as it sounded 10 times better than their main room!

Ive yet to use the ls subs in a big room - in my experience low subs need a bit pf space to breath to work properly and can sound a bit strangled in small rooms, so if they sound good in a small room, im keen to hear what they can do in a more open enviroment



Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 9:04pm
you need to try those horns. buy me some mdf and i will knock you some up for a laugh
 
ps i will try building the ls2000 with some pd1850 drivers... what do you think?  when i get the plan i will try and model it up in winsid


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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 9:31pm
ls2000 is a bp6 with 2x18" ??


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 9:35pm
yes

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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:35am
Originally posted by Heathrow_B_line Heathrow_B_line wrote:

yes
Howcome it sounds so good thenBig%20smile
Whats the magic? is it because the si2000 reaches to ~50hz well ?


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:37am
when i get my hands on some i will let you know
lol
 


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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 9:49pm

its a deal HBL, im interested to see if we can do a kind of infrahorn for these. im back from hols soon, so we can finally have a look at these subs

Mike - when using with the si2000, the ls2000 only run 28 - 55hz, and when used with the smaller msi system, they run from 28 - 75Hz. i think that both sides of the bandpass have been tuned quite close together to help overall sensitivity and output.



Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 10:26pm
Ah - A narrow bandwidth would help the BP6.I remember being silly with winisd years ago and making super peaky 40hz-50hz F3 Bp6 designs,wondering if they would have +15dB gain heh.
 
  http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=157 - http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=157
A few si2000s for SO many people! Page 157+ of show your sound system thread.
Whats the trickyness with the midbass folded horns??
 
 


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 7:19am

perhaps the power handling - using the td controller i safely put 1600w rms into each 15" driver ( modified rcf l15 p200ak 4 ohm), so am using 3.2k per bin. they are efficient as well - most people assume they are 4th order bandpass horns but they are longer horns with compression plates infront of the drivers, and a reflexed rear chamber which adds significant output to the lower area of frequency output. they are a very musical and articulate bin which when used in pairs go supprisingly low and are very punchy - excellent transient attack.

the only problem i have with this rig is it phisically looks too small for a lot of people - i frequently get comments asking where the rest of the rig is.......untill i turn it on!



Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 16 March 2008 at 4:40pm
hi  hows it getting on ?


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 20 March 2008 at 11:14pm

sorry to keep you all waiting for plans - im just too busy with work at the mo. i keep thinking that the next week will be quieter, but its not panning out.

I have decided that i want to build another 4 ls2000's so plans will definately have to be made.



Posted By: VlatkoT
Date Posted: 20 March 2008 at 11:36pm
waiting for it

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Why to live 7 days like a poor idiot When you can live 100 years like billioner


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 27 March 2008 at 6:24pm
no promises but i may be able to get afew of these made on a cnc depending on the timing

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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 27 March 2008 at 8:30pm

im away with work at the mo - should be back in 10 days, so hows about i run one over when i get back ? high time i got on with this....

picking up some lab 4000's tomorrow to run these, should be interesting!



Posted By: apprenti bidouille
Date Posted: 31 March 2008 at 4:32pm
Hello.
I'm French and i have a NEXO LS 2000 with a LS TDController. I only have a 2B55A card, which means the frequency cut-off is fixed to 55Hz...
As i use this with some PC115 speakers, i would like to increase the frequency cut-off to 75Hz...
So I would be really hardly interested if someone wants to sell a 2B75A card, or if someone is interested by exchanging a 2B55A with a 2B75A !


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 04 April 2008 at 10:24pm

really for pc line cabs you need a 99 card, but this was designed for the ls1500 only.

nice cabs the pc115's. ive got some pc115w floor monitors and there lovely. would love some more...



Posted By: apprenti bidouille
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 3:25pm
Just to know :

With your LS TDControllers, do you have both 2B75A and 2B55A cards ?

This is just to know if Nexo was delevering both cards when selling a LS 2000 or not... And to know if i have to search everywhere to see if i find a 2B75A in my garage :-D


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 7:15pm

i have 2 ls td controllers, one with a 55 card for use with si2000 or ts2400, and one with a 75 card for use with msi. I think you chose which card you requred when ordering.

as i have both si2000 and msi-v cabs i use both controllers.

you might like to contact Melpomen in Nantes who may just have come cards lurking around. Ask for Tierry Tranchant.

if you ever decide to sell your ls2000 or pc line cabs please let me know - i love the older Nexo kit, and enjoy traveling over to france as often as possible!

 



Posted By: apprenti bidouille
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 7:44pm
Thanks a lot for your message !
I have sent an email to Melpomen, but i suppose he won't have this type of stuff. We will see !


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 8:41pm

it might be worth a go - i purchased quite a lot of nexo kit from Melpomen a couple of months ago, including some ls2000 units. good luck!

ps - how do you find the ls2000 - i find it a very unusual subwoofer. very accurate, sounds strange when you are used to other units which are warm and fuzzy in comparison to the ls2000.

ive only owned mine a short while so am keen to hear other users opinions.



Posted By: apprenti bidouille
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 8:56pm
Well in fact i cannot easily compare, my situation is really unusual :
All this stuff was previously used in a sound & light show owned by my father. I recovered it recently and as i am studying engeneering and have to sit exams from now to July, i don't have a lot of time to use this stuff...This also means i don't have a lot of experience with other subwoofers so i really can't compare with other ones...
I just find it really impressive but this is a newbie appreciation since i'm not used to hearing other subwoofers so powerfull than this one.

Sory for my English, i hope you can understand !


Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:28am
Hello Chris,
here there are some measurement I did on my SI 2000, if may be of interest to the SI2K user community.





Later on I'll post the impedance curve of the LS2000  sub.

Ciao

Marcello


Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 3:20am
...and thi is my usual rig.







Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:13pm

thanks for that Marcello, the bottom diagram is how i stack mine.

the drivers in the ls2000 look like rcf l18p 200 units, 4 ohm coil. do you know if that is correct - this will be usefull if roecones are required in the future.

ive now got enough Lab gruppens to power the rig properly - im going to be using : 

Lab 2000c for si2000 mid / high ( 1 channel per 2 bins, 2 0hms load)

Lab 2000c for si2000 bass ( 1 channel per bin, 2 ohms load)

Lab 4000 for ls2000 sub ( 1 channel per bin, 2 ohms load)

i think this will work well, all the power being delivered to the cabs will be in like with what nexo recommend.

i already use Lab 1600 amps to drive my msi-v cabs and they sound great, and are just reaching 0dB when the nexo td controller limiters are comming in on excursion, so i think they are a good match.



Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by dadaumpa dadaumpa wrote:

...and thi is my usual rig.





 
can i ask what kind of events you use that rig for mate?  also how large is the crowd you play too?  I am thinking of putting a copycat rig together but with porn horns for the top end and am curious as to the output/crowd coverage
 
also can you fit that in rig into a transit sized van?  i normal one, not a long wheel base one.  lastly have you ever tried any cardiod setups for the ls2000 subs?
 
 


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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 3:14pm
Hello Chris,
well, reagarding the LS2000, for what I know, the woofer used should be the RCF L18P200AK, but maybe NEXO ha a special version of a kind of which I may be unaware.

For what is concerning the 15" woofer used in the SIB 2000, it is not the L15P200AK but a version for NEXO of the RCF L15L600, more horn loaded friendly. RCF will not tell nothing about it, I tried to achieve the information but unsuccesfully. Only hope NEXO will not stop the availability of spare parts as happened with the AUDAX midrange, however I never broke anything in my system.

The rig with 2 LS 2000 + 2 SI 2000 per side stack is a moderately large sized stack that can work very well for up to 5000 people also with heavy program material, if properly placed and driven. I measured up to 126 SPL C peak at 30 m from the stage, this is hear damaging level, before limiting from the controllers. I observed good sound consistency up to about 60 m from the stage with reduced level but still pleasant to my ears.

Maybe helped with some kind of front fill, I use Outline SPECTRA II or EAW LA 212, depending on different situation. Maybe I would like to use an additional pair of LS 2000 subs placed in the middle between the two side stack as in this picture here, to reduce cancellation effects of side subs for certain listening position, that happen with any system.



I dont need anything larger, and I dont think that even doubling the enclosures and amplifiers one may double the audience, it will not work because comb filter effect will become relevant, with sound degrading effects. At this point, if really needed, one may switch to a large and suspended line array system but, the typical sound aesthetics of a ground stacked system beloved by many people will be lost.

Imho, of course

Ciao

Marcello






Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 3:39pm
For Heathrow_B_Line

Hello,
large parts of my gigs are with live music, all genre from rock, jazz, rhythm & blues, reggae, world music an so on. On some occasion I work with DJ's and sometimes with a mixture of entertainment with both live and DJ sets.

You can see some pictures here:

http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=157

One thing I always experienced is that this system is hi-fidelity like few others if any, and never puts its sound on program material if properly aligned and equalized, so, mixing on it is always exciting and relaxing.
I spent hours to align it with TEF 12 analyzers, despite the strange trimming action on the controllers, and always recorded the performance with exact corrispondence with the sound I was looking for, this is enough for me.

Ciao

Marcello


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 4:47pm

I agree on the sound quality Marcello, i was tempted to buy a newer Alpha system last year, but after comparison with the si2000, i stuck with the si2000 - maybe the 2x1 inch top section is sweeter then the 3 inch of the alpha.

that is interesting regarding the 15 inch woofer in the si2000. mine are all original, but one has been reconed with a l15-200ak kit, which looks the same other than the lack of doping on the cone.

i am thinking about reconing the drivers in my ls2000 - the are all working, but they are feeling very loose and i think this may be due to having been driven hard in the past. In my experience this happens with age. i am very experienced in doing re-cones, so the expence should be modest.
i will look into getting some original rec one kits for the si2000 bins.


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 7:50pm
hows it going? any pics/plans coming soon  , so how easy is it to recone a driver ? never done it ,would like to know how, come in handy in future


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 8:10pm

reconing depends on the kit - most single suspention drivers ( single spider) are easy enough providing that you are paitent and gentle, and have lots of acetone available for removing the old kit, and the correct range of glues ( i use evostik impact glue and slow set 2 part epoxy)

twin spider kits and certain others come with either the coil seperate, or the cone seperate to the coil / spider assembly. these are naturally more tricky, and take a bit more time and skill.

ive been talking to HBL and am hoping to get a ls2000 and si2000 bin down to him this week and plans shall flow shortly !



Posted By: apprenti bidouille
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 9:58pm
Just in case of, could you post here the reference of the recone kit for LS2000s, and where to find such kits ? :-)


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 10:00pm
you can order the recone kit for the rcf l18-p200 ak driver from thomann, remember it is 4 ohm. unless you have reconed before, i recommend you get it done profesionally


Posted By: apprenti bidouille
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 10:40pm
I cannot find anything for p200 ak...

All i have is for p200N : http://www.thomann.de/gb/rcf_r18_p200n_4_reconingkit.htm

or is it the same ?

I've never reconed before, so if i have any problem i'll have it done profesionally as you say :-)

Thanks a lot for your help ! :-)


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 06 April 2008 at 11:19pm
thats the one, my mistake


Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 07 April 2008 at 4:04pm
For Heathrow_B_line

HEllo, I forgot to answer.

Ford Transit (old model), allows for trucking the complete rig including my three 16U flight cases EXCEPT TWO LS 2000.

No, I never tried to use the subs in a cardioid fashion, sooner or later I will try.
Instead I tried to use the subs feeded with an aux from the mixing console, but my system is aligned to perfom at best with this wiring diagram, so passing through the sub controller with frequency card at 75 Hz. Never tried the 55 Hz card.
One quite complicated matter is to set the delay of the subs to match well with the bass SIB2000.




Posted By: apprenti bidouille
Date Posted: 07 April 2008 at 7:28pm
I see you are all using the Remote Sense with "Amp direct" input.

It is said in the TDController manual :

Quote It is strongly advised to protect the amplifiers from short-circuits in the sense lines. It is recommended that
a 1 kOhm resistor with a power rating of at least three watts be inserted as close as possible to the output
terminals of the amps.


Do you use such a resistor in your installation ? How to do this properly without having an ugly resistor welded between the cable and the amplifier


Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 07 April 2008 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by apprenti bidouille apprenti bidouille wrote:

I see you are all using the Remote Sense with "Amp direct" input.

It is said in the TDController manual :

Quote It is strongly advised to protect the amplifiers from short-circuits in the sense lines. It is recommended that
a 1 kOhm resistor with a power rating of at least three watts be inserted as close as possible to the output
terminals of the amps.


Do you use such a resistor in your installation ? How to do this properly without having an ugly resistor welded between the cable and the amplifier


No, actually I do not have any resistor, the systems always performed well.
I do not know where this short circuit may happen.

If may happen on the loudpeaker lines, the amplifier will protect itself and the sound will cease, but I never seen a single short circuit on the loudspeaker lines in 30 years of professional work in audio.

The other place where may happen is in the controller, but I dont think this will be case.

In the need to strictly follow this instruction, that is quite unclear, I believe that the only way to place this resistor is fixing it on the back panel of the amplifier. There are other experence out there regarding this matter?

Ciao

Marcello


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 07 April 2008 at 10:38pm
i too wire the sence lines direct without a resistor, and have never had any trouble. good quality cable and good soldering technique should safeguard against short circuits


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 11 April 2008 at 10:02pm



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 11 April 2008 at 10:03pm



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 11 April 2008 at 10:14pm



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 11 April 2008 at 10:15pm



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 11 April 2008 at 10:16pm



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 11 April 2008 at 10:22pm

so, some internal pics of the ls2000. the first pic is a si2000 bin with the side off. work has started on making some plans for these with the aim of getting some additional cabs made by cnc.

Marcello - on one note that may interest you, i have had some concern that the drivers in my subs have seen better days - all the coils and cones are fine, no scrapes / rips etc, but the suspention feels too loose.

this afternoon i reconed one of the drivers with an rcf l18 p200-4 recone kit and the new cone feels much better and stiffer as you would expect from a pa driver.

it might be worth checking your drivers to see if they are gettong loose. mine were last reconed 9 years ago, with original parts. i should imagine the re-coned drivers will sound much better.



Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:05pm

Good session Chris... really learnt alot!  thanks for your time.

One thing is for sure that this is NOT a simple 6th order band pass... more like 8.5 order!!!
 
harder then i first thought it would be.


-------------
Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: stevo
Date Posted: 12 April 2008 at 7:17am
nice pics , the drivers in the ls2000 is the drivers one facing down into the port in box and one facing into chamber ? push and pull system not both pushing


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 12 April 2008 at 9:35am
do we still want to use 15mm, 18mm, and 24mm or shall we standise to 18mm?
 
it will work ou ALOT cheaper to build is we stick to 18mm


-------------
Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 12 April 2008 at 9:48am

the drivers on the ls2000 do face different directions, but one is wired out of phase so both cones go in the same direction at the same time. i would imagine this is done to reduce distortion.

im going to order the rest of the recone kits on monday ( another 7) - expensive, but the difference is remarkable. even though the td controller prevents over excursion and temperature damage to the drivers i think this enclosure is quite demanding on the drivers, so 9 or 10 years is goung to make them fairly tired.

HBL - its going to be interesting to try these with 1850's, but im still not convinced. we will also need to check that the driver which sits with its magnet into the rear chamber fits here as there is not a lot of available depth and the rcf is quite a shallow driver.

2 weeks to go, and ive got the whole system going out together - 4 si2000 mid high packs, 4 si2000 bass bins, 4 ls2000 subs amd 4 nexo msi-v full range infills, all powered from lab gruppen. im looking forward to hearing that!



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 12 April 2008 at 9:56am

on the wood thickness - i think it will be very difficult to build exact replicas of these if we start altering pannel thickness. we will end up with the choice of having different external dims or different internal volumes

the change of internal volumes may not be of much consequence if you are not planning to use rcf l18-p200's, but im definately sticking to the rcfs

by the way, ive got a si2000 rig going out on hire in luton this afternoon - probably approx 4.30 - fancy hearing it properly this afternoon ? ill have soundweb and a pc there as well, so you can have a play with that. i think you will be very supprised what you can do with this rig without the subs... 



Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 13 April 2008 at 12:23am
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

so, some internal pics of the ls2000. the first pic is a si2000 bin with the side off. work has started on making some plans for these with the aim of getting some additional cabs made by cnc.

Marcello - on one note that may interest you, i have had some concern that the drivers in my subs have seen better days - all the coils and cones are fine, no scrapes / rips etc, but the suspention feels too loose.

this afternoon i reconed one of the drivers with an rcf l18 p200-4 recone kit and the new cone feels much better and stiffer as you would expect from a pa driver.

it might be worth checking your drivers to see if they are gettong loose. mine were last reconed 9 years ago, with original parts. i should imagine the re-coned drivers will sound much better.


Hello Chris, thanks for the pics and the advice.

It is some time I do not open the enclosure of my LS2000, I checked the woofer two years ago and they were quite stiff, but recently I measured all of them with Techron Tef 12 and found them to be the same. However, is always good to keep the system in perfect shape.

I recommend to secure the wires directly to the frame close to the push terminal to avoid to loose electrical connection, it happened to me on one occasion on one woofer.

Here follows the impedance curve I measured on the LS2000 through about 20 m. of 4 x 2.5 cable, if may be of any interest



Here follows a picture of one of the very first measurement session.




Ciao

Marcello



Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 13 April 2008 at 1:05am
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

on the wood thickness - i think it will be very difficult to build exact replicas of these if we start altering pannel thickness. we will end up with the choice of having different external dims or different internal volumes

the change of internal volumes may not be of much consequence if you are not planning to use rcf l18-p200's, but im definately sticking to the rcfs

by the way, ive got a si2000 rig going out on hire in luton this afternoon - probably approx 4.30 - fancy hearing it properly this afternoon ? ill have soundweb and a pc there as well, so you can have a play with that. i think you will be very supprised what you can do with this rig without the subs... 



Hello Chris,
I used the double SI 2000 without subs many times also with techno music, and, in my opinion it works well. The LF extension is at least 45 Hz.

Marcello


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 13 April 2008 at 9:05am

thanks for those plots Marcello, any info on this system is interesting.

The si2000 does run well without subs- the subs are nice to have, but as you say for techno etc it is fine without. after all, the si system was designed to run on its own, the ls2000 was introduced later to suppliment the si2000 but mostly the ts2400 system.

have you ever seen or heard a ts2400 system - i have seen some internal photos and to me it looks like the very last evolution of the si system, using a similar bass horn, the same mid horn and the same treble horn but with a 2 inch rather than 2 off 1 inch drivers, all in the same cab. i would be interested to hear this someday, but i think i prefer the format of having 2 cabs.

it was good to have a couple of forum members come over yesterday to hear the system when it was being set up. I think it supprised them what such a small system was capable off. even with just 1 stack a side ( 1 bass, 1 mid high) the bass was remarkably deep. 



Posted By: dadaumpa
Date Posted: 13 April 2008 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

thanks for those plots Marcello, any info on this system is interesting.

The si2000 does run well without subs- the subs are nice to have, but as you say for techno etc it is fine without. after all, the si system was designed to run on its own, the ls2000 was introduced later to suppliment the si2000 but mostly the ts2400 system.

have you ever seen or heard a ts2400 system - i have seen some internal photos and to me it looks like the very last evolution of the si system, using a similar bass horn, the same mid horn and the same treble horn but with a 2 inch rather than 2 off 1 inch drivers, all in the same cab. i would be interested to hear this someday, but i think i prefer the format of having 2 cabs.

it was good to have a couple of forum members come over yesterday to hear the system when it was being set up. I think it supprised them what such a small system was capable off. even with just 1 stack a side ( 1 bass, 1 mid high) the bass was remarkably deep. 



Hello Chris,
I agree with you, the SI 2000 was designed to run on its own.
I saw the TS 2400 at exhibition in the late eighties or early nineties, but never heard or used it. Yes I know the LS2000 was designed for the TS 2400.

I also prefer the two 1" compression driver instead the one 2", and the split box system is also better to me.

Never used the single SI2000 (1 bass bin,1 mid high).

Ciao

Marcello

 







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