Anyways... I'm near Bath (Frome) if anyone has an Xtro in the area... 

 

The other thing is... we did the plots @ 1m... now, thinking about it, for a horn loaded mid top this is a stupid way to measure, we should have done the plots at 2m / 4m / 8m.. would have given a far more repesentitve plot (you can design a box to perform perfectly at 1m but what does it plot like at greater distances!?!?!)

 

Anyways.. lemme know.

 

I'm not saying the porn will be bad plot wise (listening wise it's beautiful).. but I bet it was designed to give a flat response at 1m for marketing purposes.

 

i would trust Rog to do what he says hes doing

 

try giving them a proper listen, you will find they give a flat response at 1m or 10m....

 

I said they sound beautiful.. and they do, at whatever distance... all I'm saying is if Rog (or any speaker designer) had any brain they would design the cab to plot perfectly at 1m as that's what all the manufacturers specs use... It's like 0-60 times on cars and the long 2nd gear most cars now have (so you can get to 60 with only one gear change, hence giving a more impressive figure)... it's a marketing trick that anyone would employ.

 

Digidrive.. has presets for the porn which have probably had hours and hours tweaking  / measuring / tweaking time... you think Rog didn't use them??? Seriously? They day turned into a porn sales demo really.. be honest.

 

I got far better plots out of the MA912s on a later measuing session with much more tweaking / playing with delays / eq.

 

if Rog really wanted to mess about with the results he could have done so anytime because he was doing the measuring and had the plots.  this is going down a path i dont want to be involved in so i shall leave you guys to it.

 

ps.  with all the tweaking / playing with delays / eq.. do the bokes sound decent now?

.

next time use your own gear and laptop, see what happens

 

wasn't there some magic tricks done at the show with the new bass bins?

Exactly... the ALL need delay / EQ to sound right... PORN INCLUDED MYKEY

 

I just said that we should plot Xtros from greater distances as it would be a better reprisentation of the real use.. and that most manufacturers have probably designed there cabs to plot well at 1m... with less regard to larger distances.. or perhaps tweaked EQ + delay settings to plot well at 1m.

 

But me, like Tom Danley thinks this is the wrong way of doing it (nobody in there right mind stands 1m infront of a horn loaded mid / top at full chat).

 

Maybe I should't have used Rog as an example.. my bad.. anyway.. it's fun to promote lively debate on here.

 

Mikey, you need to read a few posts up mate, because adam just said that after I left he played around with the settings with his own gear and got a much better response.

 

So either he's better at tricks than me or I didn't play any. This is why shootouts are a waste of time. You're much better of getting a load of people around kit they know how to set up well and putting on some good tunes whilst having a beer and a chat about it. Then compare one system or bit of kit to another. Its so unlikely that a few people at the event will understand how to get the best out of all the kit at the shootout and that can mean that some really misunderstood bit of kit might get rejected because no one either knows or can be bothered to get the best from it. That makes the whole reasoning behind a shootout pointless.

 

And if you could kindly explane what tricks I played with the Stasys X at PLASA that would be nice.

 

I wasn't having a dig, i'm impressed, thats whay i said don't bother with a controller

 

why bother with a flat line like that

 

 

I never said you used any tricks!!!

 

All I said was you mut have used the preset for the porn, which would have had a bit of time spent on it.. more than we spent on the other cabs atleast, which may have made the test slightly unfair.

 

Over all tho, even taking this into account the porn walked it.

 

Then I said I managed to get a better plot out of the cabs I have with more playing around (a couple of hours tweaking delays / eq etc)... still nothing special compared to the porn I might add.

 

The only reason the porn horn has a better plot than the rest in the same time is that it starts off with a very flat frequency response. As you have found even if you spend 3 days trying to get a flat response from the bokes you will not.

 

This is how it works. The DIY sector or Chinese company that just looks at another design from a picture and then builds something that losely looks like it, will and can never have the control over parts that I can. I have a complete say in how the glue is made and where it is applied when designing the woofers and compression drivers. I even have control of where and from what materials the capacitors are made from in the crossovers and how the copper or alu is made for coils and inductors. I have control of the cabinet shape and a full time team of 6 men and CNC just to build prototypes. If some who has all this at there disposal can't come up with a design that has a pretty flat response then they should not be designing at all.

 

As a DIYer you are at the mercy of what ever you can find. I'm so surprised that anyone can take a compression driver from one company and mate it with a horn from somewhere else and then connect that to a premade crossover and use a woofer from another company and put it into a box that has had only 10 mins spent on its design by someone with little knowledge. Its a million to 1 chance that all those parts will combine to make anything useable, let alone have a flat response. Only when you have control of ever part of the speaker and its design can you hope to get good results. Some Chinese companys do have control over all the materials and parts that make up a speaker system, but the problems is that they don't know where or what to control to make anything worth having. Industy is too new for China and there are a people who need to be led. So finding anyone with any clue of how to design anything is remote.

 

So, if it was easy to get a flat plot in a short time for the porn horn its just down to the fact that all its parts work together and were designed to provide a good response with the mimimum of effort. I thought it took a long time to get a good plot from the porn horn and if the beyma HF driver was used I think anyone could have made a flat response in under 5 mins.  

 

Anyways... maybe I did put that a bit badly... I do apologise by the way.

 

What I ment was... the freq plot of ANY multi driver setup WILL change over distance.. be it porn, stasys, turbo, FK1.. MA912.. whatever... the different componants of the system WILL have differences in dispertion... hence the plot WILL change... (maybe danleys unity might be an exeption to this).

 

If I were to design a mid top.. I would probably design it with a goal of having as flat a response as possible (with no EQ)... to do this I would have to choose a distance at which to measure the response.. and seeing as everyone uses 1w / 1m.. I would probably use the same (maybe I shouldn't have called this a marketing trick).

 

However.. all I was saying was.. for high power - horn loaded mid tops.. this isn't really the best distance to design for.. or measure from... it should be far further.. closer to the actual crowd distance when in use (lets discount moshers in Norfolk at 1mm listening distance).

 

I know for a single cab you can plot at a high power and at greater distance, then work out the 1w /1m.. BUT with multiple sources.. does it still plot the same at 10m s it does at 1m (I say no).

 

That's the point I was trying to make.

 

I was not in any way critisizing the porn... it's the best DIY mid available in my view... just sadly out of my budget :(

 

I also have to say I think shootouts are very valuable, a learning experience for everyone involved and for the readers of the results.. and jolly good fun.

 

didnt it have a metal plug? i must be confused, any chance of a linky to the pic of the mk1 pls??

 

do you have te designs???

 

 

cheers

 

They are DIY cabs using Porn Mk1 12" section with Limmer 042 mid/hi section over them.  From what you've posted elsewhere, you can't afford them, or would be better off buying a name brand like turbo or Void as you're in the same ballpark cost wise.

 

http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=203 - http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=203