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Stasys 3 MK2 VS Porn Horn V2

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Po rn Horns
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the Po rn Horns
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13903
Printed Date: 19 April 2024 at 1:11am
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Topic: Stasys 3 MK2 VS Porn Horn V2
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Subject: Stasys 3 MK2 VS Porn Horn V2
Date Posted: 16 January 2008 at 5:02am
You guys think the same geezer made them both? Thumbs%20Up



img182/7977/12345ym7.jpg


I don't think you can go wrong then?



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www.aggressiveaudio.co.za



Replies:
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 16 January 2008 at 8:40am
I know! they're rediculously good plots! whats in the stasys's? they're alot bigger arnt they?


Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 16 January 2008 at 1:50pm
Dot Know. Has to be > Manual Geek

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www.aggressiveaudio.co.za


Posted By: suiluj
Date Posted: 16 January 2008 at 4:58pm
really nice plots from an outsanding designer.

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Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 16 January 2008 at 6:14pm
I Want a couple a GREY ONE'SBig%20smile. Will have to import thoughDead. Don't have d bucks for the RED ONE'sCry.


img225/893/1234545564564ym5.jpg




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www.aggressiveaudio.co.za


Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 17 January 2008 at 2:20pm
I still plan to have 2 mk 2 porns one of these days... When I have a proper job :)


Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 17 January 2008 at 11:25pm
img86/8281/1234545564564wz5.jpg

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www.aggressiveaudio.co.za


Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 6:06pm
Any chance of getting an X-TRO plot also into the same graph?


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 6:13pm
lol, still no xtro plots even made afaik.....

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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 6:35pm
Get us a plot then we can do it

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www.aggressiveaudio.co.za


Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 7:20pm
Still no? damn. The thing I'd really be interested in is X-TRO with Mykeys 8" horn. :)
Would be really interesting to see how it'd compare to Rog's designs, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, but unfortunately I don't have any X-TRO's or measuring gear...


Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 24 January 2008 at 4:47am
Originally posted by pfly pfly wrote:

Still no? damn. The thing I'd really be interested in is X-TRO with Mykeys 8" horn. :)
Would be really interesting to see how it'd compare to Rog's designs, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, but unfortunately I don't have any X-TRO's or measuring gear...

The XTRO owners seem to be measurement shy too!Ouch


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 4:12pm
soon someone is planning on measuring thers Im under the impression they are trying to get the gear together to do the measureing....

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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 6:00pm
if there are any in my area I'm happy to do plots... have all the gear... leave it till the weather warms up tho ay!

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Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:52pm
adam in the xtro section there was a guy with a pair wanting to do some measurements, maybey you two should chat about it. between the two of you youd have everything needed.

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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 9:20am
we made measurements, but sadly, they were loaded with different drivers

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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by adambomb adambomb wrote:

if there are any in my area I'm happy to do plots... have all the gear... leave it till the weather warms up tho ay!


Where abouts are you? I know a man with a pair...


Posted By: soundsystemdan
Date Posted: 26 January 2008 at 3:52pm
those plots look like they might be with eqing, well the porn horn at least.

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Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 27 January 2008 at 2:39am
Originally posted by soundsystemdan soundsystemdan wrote:

those plots look like they might be with eqing, well the porn horn at least.


Exactly.Everything needs context. 1/24th octave resolution,sampling frequency,averaging, measurement conditions.

Take a look at the turbosound aspect measurements,heaps of wiggles,makes me think of less averaging.

HARMAN(jbl)measure their consumer speakers in basically every direction and average the results to get the speaker response,removing measurement artifacts. go to their site,whitepapers.


Posted By: Jhodas
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 7:59am
http://www.proaudioparts.co.uk/pdf/phornplot1.pdf

The porn plot has EQ on it. Dunno about the stasys.


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Until the Lions have their own historians, tales of hunting will always glorify the hunter.


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 28 January 2008 at 9:18am
Hmm... funny how the porn got almost the same plot at the mid / top clash with apparently no EQ... should never have used Rog's Digi drive.. too open to messing... still a good plot tho even with EQ.
 
Anyways... I'm near Bath (Frome) if anyone has an Xtro in the area... 
 
The other thing is... we did the plots @ 1m... now, thinking about it, for a horn loaded mid top this is a stupid way to measure, we should have done the plots at 2m / 4m / 8m.. would have given a far more repesentitve plot (you can design a box to perform perfectly at 1m but what does it plot like at greater distances!?!?!)
 
Anyways.. lemme know.


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Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 2:03am
Originally posted by adambomb adambomb wrote:

Hmm... funny how the porn got almost the same plot at the mid / top clash with apparently no EQ... should never have used Rog's Digi drive.. too open to messing... still a good plot tho even with EQ.
 
Anyways... I'm near Bath (Frome) if anyone has an Xtro in the area... 
 
The other thing is... we did the plots @ 1m... now, thinking about it, for a horn loaded mid top this is a stupid way to measure, we should have done the plots at 2m / 4m / 8m.. would have given a far more repesentitve plot (you can design a box to perform perfectly at 1m but what does it plot like at greater distances!?!?!)
 
Anyways.. lemme know.

Tom danley measures his basshorns at 10metres with ~100w input. This will give you some real world distortion levels rather than dainty 2.83volts etc.

The plot will change everytime you move 2cms in the HF.Think of how large the wavelengths are,and the interferences that can occur between drivers.Hopefully they are cohesive.

There are many links online about how to measure properly.


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 10:58am
exactly... great distances  / higher power are far better / closer to true performance.
 
I'm not saying the porn will be bad plot wise (listening wise it's beautiful).. but I bet it was designed to give a flat response at 1m for marketing purposes.


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Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:02am
Originally posted by adambomb adambomb wrote:

Hmm... funny how the porn got almost the same plot at the mid / top clash with apparently no EQ... should never have used Rog's Digi drive.. too open to messing... still a good plot tho even with EQ.
 
 
i would trust Rog to do what he says hes doing


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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:03am
Originally posted by adambomb adambomb wrote:

exactly... great distances  / higher power are far better / closer to true performance.
 
I'm not saying the porn will be bad plot wise (listening wise it's beautiful).. but I bet it was designed to give a flat response at 1m for marketing purposes.
 
try giving them a proper listen, you will find they give a flat response at 1m or 10m....


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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:11am
Have you measured that then? Bet they don't!
 
I said they sound beautiful.. and they do, at whatever distance... all I'm saying is if Rog (or any speaker designer) had any brain they would design the cab to plot perfectly at 1m as that's what all the manufacturers specs use... It's like 0-60 times on cars and the long 2nd gear most cars now have (so you can get to 60 with only one gear change, hence giving a more impressive figure)... it's a marketing trick that anyone would employ.
 
Digidrive.. has presets for the porn which have probably had hours and hours tweaking  / measuring / tweaking time... you think Rog didn't use them??? Seriously? They day turned into a porn sales demo really.. be honest.
 
I got far better plots out of the MA912s on a later measuing session with much more tweaking / playing with delays / eq.


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Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:17am
Originally posted by adambomb adambomb wrote:

Have you measured that then? Bet they don't!
 
I said they sound beautiful.. and they do, at whatever distance... all I'm saying is if Rog (or any speaker designer) had any brain they would design the cab to plot perfectly at 1m as that's what all the manufacturers specs use... It's like 0-60 times on cars and the long 2nd gear most cars now have (so you can get to 60 with only one gear change, hence giving a more impressive figure)... it's a marketing trick that anyone would employ.
 
Digidrive.. has presets for the porn which have probably had hours and hours tweaking  / measuring / tweaking time... you think Rog didn't use them??? Seriously? They day turned into a porn sales demo really.. be honest.
 
I got far better plots out of the MA912s on a later measuing session with much more tweaking / playing with delays / eq.
 
if Rog really wanted to mess about with the results he could have done so anytime because he was doing the measuring and had the plots.  this is going down a path i dont want to be involved in so i shall leave you guys to it.
 
ps.  with all the tweaking / playing with delays / eq.. do the bokes sound decent now?


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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:33am
.


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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:36am
Originally posted by Heathrow_B_line Heathrow_B_line wrote:

Originally posted by adambomb adambomb wrote:

Hmm... funny how the porn got almost the same plot at the mid / top clash with apparently no EQ... should never have used Rog's Digi drive.. too open to messing... still a good plot tho even with EQ.
 
 
i would trust Rog to do what he says hes doing
theres magic trick done by the big boys
next time use your own gear and laptop, see what happens
 
wasn't there some magic tricks done at the show with the new bass bins?


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:46am
What are you guys shouting about? He gives you all th settings for your controller anyways!!

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www.aggressiveaudio.co.za


Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:49am
Cant see any pro cab ever being perfect in FQ response at 1m or 30m's without some f**king around with controllers.

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www.aggressiveaudio.co.za


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:56am
Don't waste your money on a controller, just buy the porn horn and chuck it straight on an amp

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:56am
Exactly... the ALL need delay / EQ to sound right... PORN INCLUDED MYKEY
 
I just said that we should plot Xtros from greater distances as it would be a better reprisentation of the real use.. and that most manufacturers have probably designed there cabs to plot well at 1m... with less regard to larger distances.. or perhaps tweaked EQ + delay settings to plot well at 1m.
 
But me, like Tom Danley thinks this is the wrong way of doing it (nobody in there right mind stands 1m infront of a horn loaded mid / top at full chat).
 
Maybe I should't have used Rog as an example.. my bad.. anyway.. it's fun to promote lively debate on here.


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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 12:12pm
gay porn? I'll get me coat

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 30 January 2008 at 10:47pm
LOL

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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 10 February 2008 at 11:37am
Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

Originally posted by Heathrow_B_line Heathrow_B_line wrote:

Originally posted by adambomb adambomb wrote:

Hmm... funny how the porn got almost the same plot at the mid / top clash with apparently no EQ... should never have used Rog's Digi drive.. too open to messing... still a good plot tho even with EQ.
 
 
i would trust Rog to do what he says hes doing
theres magic trick done by the big boys
next time use your own gear and laptop, see what happens
 
wasn't there some magic tricks done at the show with the new bass bins?
 
Mikey, you need to read a few posts up mate, because adam just said that after I left he played around with the settings with his own gear and got a much better response.
 
So either he's better at tricks than me or I didn't play any. This is why shootouts are a waste of time. You're much better of getting a load of people around kit they know how to set up well and putting on some good tunes whilst having a beer and a chat about it. Then compare one system or bit of kit to another. Its so unlikely that a few people at the event will understand how to get the best out of all the kit at the shootout and that can mean that some really misunderstood bit of kit might get rejected because no one either knows or can be bothered to get the best from it. That makes the whole reasoning behind a shootout pointless.
 
And if you could kindly explane what tricks I played with the Stasys X at PLASA that would be nice.


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 10 February 2008 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:


And if you could kindly explane what tricks I played with the Stasys X at PLASA that would be nice.


I know you rigged the walls with a massive 8th order bandpass with 52 18"ers

In all seriousness I see two schools of design afoot,

1) The old skool - which consisted of primarily getting the speaker right as much as possible so that no corrective EQ was required for a good sound - partially due to the fact that corrective EQ used to be prohibitively expensive. A lot of the old EV designs were spot on in this way, but things have moved on.

2) The newer skool - which seems to consist of partially designed/copied/badly designed cabs with hordes of corrective EQ to compensate for the lack of time and effort put in at the design stage

While I believe Rog uses EQ to perfect the system you can tell by his designs and his component choices that his systems are designed with the older skool method firmly in mind

The fact that you all commented on how loud and clear the Porn horn V2 was at that shootout just confirms this. Dont forget that all of the other mid tops at that shootout were not phase plugged so if nothing else, if there was not a significant amount of R&D in the Porn then it would have exhibited the same mid range droop which is almost impossible to correct with EQ as all the others.

Also dont forget that with every band of EQ you use it also causes phase shift in other bands. This explains the near perfect waterfall/impulse/GD/phase plots of the Porn.

Unfortunately the people who design via skool 2) appear to either not realise or do not care to notice this but its also part of the reason why (and you all commented on this) that the Porn blew away everything else at the shootout.

Stu

-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 10 February 2008 at 1:22pm
I hope this is not what your on about Rog????
 
I wasn't having a dig, i'm impressed, thats whay i said don't bother with a controller
 
why bother with a flat line like that
 


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 11 February 2008 at 3:45pm
Rog.. just found this.. you have taken this the wrong way.
 
I never said you used any tricks!!!
 
All I said was you mut have used the preset for the porn, which would have had a bit of time spent on it.. more than we spent on the other cabs atleast, which may have made the test slightly unfair.
 
Over all tho, even taking this into account the porn walked it.
 
Then I said I managed to get a better plot out of the cabs I have with more playing around (a couple of hours tweaking delays / eq etc)... still nothing special compared to the porn I might add.


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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 11 February 2008 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

And if you could kindly explane what tricks I played with the Stasys X at PLASA that would be nice.


It seems you managed to unscrew the lightbulbs without touching them, that's a pretty good trick if I ever saw one LOL


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:10am
Adam, here we go again.
 
The only reason the porn horn has a better plot than the rest in the same time is that it starts off with a very flat frequency response. As you have found even if you spend 3 days trying to get a flat response from the bokes you will not.
 
This is how it works. The DIY sector or Chinese company that just looks at another design from a picture and then builds something that losely looks like it, will and can never have the control over parts that I can. I have a complete say in how the glue is made and where it is applied when designing the woofers and compression drivers. I even have control of where and from what materials the capacitors are made from in the crossovers and how the copper or alu is made for coils and inductors. I have control of the cabinet shape and a full time team of 6 men and CNC just to build prototypes. If some who has all this at there disposal can't come up with a design that has a pretty flat response then they should not be designing at all.
 
As a DIYer you are at the mercy of what ever you can find. I'm so surprised that anyone can take a compression driver from one company and mate it with a horn from somewhere else and then connect that to a premade crossover and use a woofer from another company and put it into a box that has had only 10 mins spent on its design by someone with little knowledge. Its a million to 1 chance that all those parts will combine to make anything useable, let alone have a flat response. Only when you have control of ever part of the speaker and its design can you hope to get good results. Some Chinese companys do have control over all the materials and parts that make up a speaker system, but the problems is that they don't know where or what to control to make anything worth having. Industy is too new for China and there are a people who need to be led. So finding anyone with any clue of how to design anything is remote.
 
So, if it was easy to get a flat plot in a short time for the porn horn its just down to the fact that all its parts work together and were designed to provide a good response with the mimimum of effort. I thought it took a long time to get a good plot from the porn horn and if the beyma HF driver was used I think anyone could have made a flat response in under 5 mins.  


Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 12 February 2008 at 6:49am
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

 As a DIYer you are at the mercy of what ever you can find....... Only when you have control of ever part of the speaker and its design can you hope to get good results.


sh*t, best we all give up then....:(


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 13 February 2008 at 12:24am
I think the one thing Rog may miss is that he sees the industry from inside the industry, an increasing number of bands and DJs are wising up to the DIY option and for them it offers a huge potential to destroy a lot of the mass produced reflex drivers in boxes that Rog is talking about in the post above.

I think with Rog releasing the plans on the speakerplans website and people like Bill Fitzmaurice, Walt and Staiper coming up with their own offerings there is a lot of choice out there for people who want to build and an increasing number of people are doing just that.

If you want to spend a bit more but have an easier option I think the Porn sits nicely in the midband price range between a good branded product and a good DIY option and offers a lot of performance at that price.

In terms of designing it takes a huge amount of effort to achieve sonic perfection but with more and more people listening to mp3s and wma quality files which are ultra compressed, IMO people have lost a love for listening to music, its just there in their lives, they dont care about the intricate details of it anymore its just noise for a modern world.

I am the complete opposite to this if I listen to digital its gotta be the highest quality you can find, and id rather listen to analogue where possible. I do wonder though, how much the population is able to discern music from sound, and talent from crap.

I blame simon cowell, under 1% of the population have the "X factor" in any field and it doesnt appear to be any of those that receive the airtime, mostly because they are tired and bitter of the whole industry... sound familiar?

Stu


-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 26 March 2008 at 8:59pm
give up??      never

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Im hard to learn but still asking


Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 27 March 2008 at 7:06pm
Anybody got a pic of the mk1 porn horn with the metal plug???

-------------
PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM.

Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music.

Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day.


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 27 March 2008 at 8:31pm
did it have a metal plug? Didn't know that.

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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 27 March 2008 at 10:17pm
Don't think it did, check dom's pics in 'Show off...', they're MK1's and they're abs/plastic afaik

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Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 27 March 2008 at 10:34pm
I just read thru Rog's comments again (above). (you there Rog?)...
 
Anyways... maybe I did put that a bit badly... I do apologise by the way.
 
What I ment was... the freq plot of ANY multi driver setup WILL change over distance.. be it porn, stasys, turbo, FK1.. MA912.. whatever... the different componants of the system WILL have differences in dispertion... hence the plot WILL change... (maybe danleys unity might be an exeption to this).
 
If I were to design a mid top.. I would probably design it with a goal of having as flat a response as possible (with no EQ)... to do this I would have to choose a distance at which to measure the response.. and seeing as everyone uses 1w / 1m.. I would probably use the same (maybe I shouldn't have called this a marketing trickEmbarrassed).
 
However.. all I was saying was.. for high power - horn loaded mid tops.. this isn't really the best distance to design for.. or measure from... it should be far further.. closer to the actual crowd distance when in use (lets discount moshers in Norfolk at 1mm listening distance).
 
I know for a single cab you can plot at a high power and at greater distance, then work out the 1w /1m.. BUT with multiple sources.. does it still plot the same at 10m s it does at 1m (I say no).
 
That's the point I was trying to make.
 
I was not in any way critisizing the porn... it's the best DIY mid available in my view... just sadly out of my budget :(
 
I also have to say I think shootouts are very valuable, a learning experience for everyone involved and for the readers of the results.. and jolly good fun.


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Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 27 March 2008 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by norty303 norty303 wrote:

Don't think it did, check dom's pics in 'Show off...', they're MK1's and they're abs/plastic afaik
 
didnt it have a metal plug? i must be confused, any chance of a linky to the pic of the mk1 pls??Smile


-------------
PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM.

Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music.

Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day.


Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 28 March 2008 at 12:36pm
?????

-------------
PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM.

Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music.

Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day.


Posted By: Dom
Date Posted: 03 April 2008 at 9:01am
No metal plugs here... Sorry to disappoint...

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"It sounded like a million fire engines chasing ten million ambulances through a war zone and it was played at a volume that made the empty chair beside me bleed."


Posted By: frenzy
Date Posted: 03 April 2008 at 10:02am
hey  do you have ne close up pictures of your tops???
 
do you have te designs???
 
 
cheers


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bass bass bass


Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 04 April 2008 at 4:41am
lolo


Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 05 April 2008 at 4:35pm
Quote hey  do you have ne close up pictures of your tops???
 
do you have te designs???
 
They are DIY cabs using Porn Mk1 12" section with Limmer 042 mid/hi section over them.  From what you've posted elsewhere, you can't afford them, or would be better off buying a name brand like turbo or Void as you're in the same ballpark cost wise.
 
http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=203 - http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=203
 


-------------
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