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Rubic Horn

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Category: General
Forum Name: General Forum
Forum Description: Open Discussion / Questions
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14904
Printed Date: 30 June 2022 at 1:37am
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Topic: Rubic Horn
Posted By: Rog
Subject: Rubic Horn
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 8:46am
Rubic Modular Horn
 
 
 
 
Plots and pics of the seperate modules tomorrow.



Replies:
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 8:50am
Awesome,the next level!


Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 8:52am
wow.

cheer up rog, thats awesome.


Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 9:01am
There should be a pic of you cracking a bottle of champers over them"God Bless the Rubic Horn and all who sail in her!"


Posted By: The Fair One
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 9:04am
I think he is trying to maintain a bad boy look just to show how rude these bad boys would be. All hooded up Clap.


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 11:08am

And a wow from me!

are you sure that isn't going to rattle with those brackets Rog?



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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: biotec
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 11:18am
I pity the people that have to stack those! they do look utterly awesome though.
 
I think if you went to a soundclash with a stack of those the other sound would repack their van and drive home without playing a tune.


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 11:19am
WOWZER!
 
Any chance you could give us plots compared to say 4 or 8 super scoops?
 
Interesting stuff Rog! Inovating again!


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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 11:24am
the bottom pic of ROG reminds me of Griff Rhys Jones

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 11:41am
LOL I love the top Rog is wearing, this guy has a mean sense of humour... no not humor stupid american website spell checker!

You forgot the rasta hat with inbuilt dreds!

Stu

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All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: boab
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 11:55am
Monster...


Posted By: mikey bear
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 11:55am
is rog making weapons now?lol


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 12:07pm
mmm.... no handles..

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general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 12:24pm
What size driver is that? looks like a 21inch?

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Be seeing you.


Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 1:33pm
Guy kinda looks like a D bag.

Speakers are cool though.


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 1:44pm
I'd take that back if I were you!

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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 1:52pm

I must be getting old, whats a D bag?

The Guy is Rog, who has a great sense of humour

like the trainers ROG, next time you're over, wink! wink!
 


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: Richard Hart
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by wafflesomd wafflesomd wrote:

Guy kinda looks like a D bag.
 
What's a "D bag"? Is it complimentary?


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 1:53pm
JBL, if I know Rog they will be the v18 1200's

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 1:56pm
LOL waffles, want a spade mate?
 
Design looks interesting, I've been thinking that modular designs are the way forward for someone who wants a high specd sub that ticks all the boxes. What sort of horn length are you getting there?
 
Mykey's question seems odd (no offence meant mykey, you're prob asking the same question i am below but in a lot less words hehe), cos obviously stopping any rattling between modules would be one of the main concerns, so I'd guess you've already thought of that! Did you have to spend quite a lot of time designing the clasps that fix the modules together without vibrations, or did you use an existing idea? Do some sort of rubber seals make it airtight, and if so how durable are the seals between modules? I imagine it'd be quite difficult to make the seals hardwearing if they'll be put up and taken down regularly.
 
edit: D bag probably means douche bag, credits should go to Kelly Osbourne for that one hehe.


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:04pm
why does it seem odd?
 
we bulit some heavy duty horns with barn doors years ago and those silly clamps that go on cases wouldn't have done the job
 
so I modified some lorry (truck) flat bed clamps, they did the trick alright,no vibrating at all
 
we used a heavy duty foam in between joins as well
 
it took full strength to close one of these buggers, not a thumb and finger twist like those amp rack catch's
 
so my question isn't odd, because i'm thinking this Rubic bin will creat some diorrhoea moving frequencys


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:06pm
you changed what you said, cool

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:14pm
Full marks to Rog. But if big stacks, size and low frequency does it for you, just make bigger and heavier cabs, ( with a good design of course). Small light weight stuff won't cut it. And be prepared to spend money.

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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:17pm
........on a choiropracter

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:19pm
yeah sorry mate i realized that may have come across wrong so i changed it, realized we were both basically asking the same question!
 
"it took full strength to close one of these buggers, not a thumb and finger twist like those amp rack catch's
 
so my question isn't odd, because i'm thinking this Rubic bin will creat some diorrhoea moving frequencys"
 
im really interested to know how durable the catches and seals are. although i could understand if rog didn't want to go into too much detail, i don't expect them to do the R+D just so i can try and steal their knowledge lol. definitely food for thought though.


Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

........on a choiropracter
 
LOL!
 
Either that or add 'Big man' to your rider. You turn up with the system and instead of saying "right, who runs the night" you say "right, hand over your big man".


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:25pm
we used the large heavy duty handle clamps you find on trucks, the kind of trucks that have the flap down sides and back
 
super strong indeed
 
Rog would have to use something like that internally though what with them not being flush
still great for barn doors though (flare extenders) 


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

JBL, if I know Rog they will be the v18 1200's
 
 Its just they looked bigger than 18inch Mike,maybe my mince pies arnt as good anymore!


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:36pm
JBL man

Rog is photoshopped in that imageWink


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general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:38pm
That's Notting Hill sorted then LOL


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Full marks to Rog. But if big stacks, size and low frequency does it for you, just make bigger and heavier cabs, ( with a good design of course). Small light weight stuff won't cut it. And be prepared to spend money.
think about it Tony....you could take out 8 scoops being the same size, Rog? or take out these 4 scoops and 4 extensionsWink
 
the extensions will be less weight than loaded scoops and I'm sure these will be allot more FUN than taking 8 scoops out Tongue 


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 3:22pm
was just thinking.....if Rog was wearing this same outfit in leytonstone high street or brixton! how long would it take before someone shouted  "OLD BILL"?? lol
 
 
http://imageshack.us">


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 3:23pm
3 SECONDS!! LOL

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: boycey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

was just thinking.....if Rog was wearing this same outfit in leytonstone high street or brixton! how long would it take before someone shouted  "OLD BILL"?? lol
 
 
http://imageshack.us">


does the top have "LON" on the back???


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the only thing more dangerous than a person who doesn't give a f**k is a person who gives a sh*t.


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 3:31pm
boycey!! you owe me a latte, i just spat it at the screen

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 4:08pm
haha! baby-lon or ice ice-baby?


Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 4:27pm
Mircea...seems it's only you and me thinking the same thing then..Wink


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 4:55pm
I have a trained eye for that kind of thingsWink

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general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: TRE4U2NV
Date Posted: 25 February 2008 at 8:34pm
Ive seen something similar mr dub [larry] and barrarcuda were working on a scoop extention idea about four years ago with channel one at an outdoor festival had some kind of problem with it never saw them again some of the dub ites on here might remember it it was at marsh lane festival 

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IM SO SECRETIVE BUT I CANT TELL YOU WHY


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:05am
Yeah,
 
But I ain't larry or barrarcuda. A quick look at another of my websites should clear that up Trev.
 
I did cut myself out in photoshop, but put me back exactly where I was in the original pic. I did this as I took the photo under fluorescent lights and it put a green cast on everything. If I corrected the colours for the bass cabs then I would have turned out orange. So by having me and the cabs as seperate layers I can get the correct colour balance on everything. For those that want to know I always set the white balance to 5500K and then adjust either the RAW file during conversion or in photoshop.
 
Here is a crop of the original pic before any post processing.
 
 
Also worth noting in the pic of the horns positioned horizontally is that each cab measures 2.4 meters wide x 1.2 meters deep x 600 mm high. So 3 cabs would be 1.8 meters high and guess what, I'm 1.81 meters tall, so you're good Mircea, but not that good, ha ha.
 
The driver in each cab is a modded version of the V18-1200 and the horn length is 5 meters. You need all 4 cabs to make up a horn with a big enough mouth to be able to make use of the 5 meter horn length. You can use 2 cabs, but there is a drop off below 35Hz then. The throat of the Rubics design places even loading over the entire cone, so its not like a normal scoop with a throat at one end of the front chamber. The throat is placed centrally and in the middle of the rear of the driver in this design.
 
This is a prototype Mircea, so no handles, but I know where they would go.
 
Yes the catches are strong enough Mykey. Each one can pull down with a force of 600Kg. The whole system is very quick to put together. It takes less that 2 mins to attach 2 sections together. The seal is rebated into the end and is a neopreane rubber like used for diving suits and studio sound proofing. If it can last 20 years next to a divers tackle, its good enough for me. The catches sit beneath the external of each cab, so 2 cabs can touch each other when stacked. And no, there are no rattles between sections.
 
Each section is 1200 x 1200 x 600, so a little bigger than a normal scoop, but you can't really compare 4, 8 or even 16 scoops against the Rubic, as no matter how many normal scoops you have you will never start hitting to below 35Hz. It takes a really long horn with big enough mouth to hit 35hz and below, let alone 25Hz.
 
 
 


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:21am
Rog.. I'm assuming this design is for pure sub - bass (i.e 80hz and down).. so in use you would need kicks and of course mid tops above.
 
How would you go about stacking that? it's bloody large init!!? (very tall)


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Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:24am
fair play rog, good to see something different, bit of a niche market, but thats a good thing.
its the only way to go if you have a "no compromise especialy size" attitude towards a particular design........ if your willing to spend the dosh on the right drivers + materials, and spend the time designing it properly, and are willing to accept that loud and low usualy means big cab, and you are designing a box for a large venue then this has to be the way forward? [discounting things like robbos ravehorn etc....]
nice looking boxes, how low do they drop???
nice!!!!!!!


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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:25am
http://www.cracked.com/article_15822_5-douchebag-behaviors-explained-by-science.html - http://www.cracked.com/article_15822_5-douchebag-behaviors-explained-by-science.html
 
Nice to see some of you got the joke.
 
@wafflesomd,
 
f**k off you c**t.
 
Please note that all the people in the above link about douchbags look american. Now that is funny.


Posted By: Dunk
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:31am
You've got to bring those to Notting Hill, people will wet themselves when they see how big they are!


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:35am
Adam,
 
I'm not finding the need to use kick bins with the Rubic. Of course it will never have the speed of a horn loaded 15" designed just for 80Hz +, but I'm so surpised at how quick it is. It was the first thing that grabbed me. Yes it plays low, to around 25Hz, but it was the speed and amount of kick that blew me away. I've tried mid tops with 12" horns crossing over at 130Hz and I don't feel there's anything missing.
 
It is big but that whole stack of 4 horns took less that 8 mins to put up. You lay down 2 sections on there backs and do up 4 of the catches, then tilt it forwards a bit and do up the final 2 catches at the rear. Then if you want to do them vertically just lift up one end and push it untill its upright. What you have to remember is that its not too heavy. The bottom section without driver is around 45Kgs, and the top section is only a bit more than a normal scoop.
 


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:41am
another q : What made you choose a rear loaded horn rather than and enclosed / front loaded.. simply the best design for getting the depth of response? or wanting to keep the kick from the direct radiating prt (the old argument for scoop bins)??
 
Or was the goal the ultimate scoop bin.. as they do seam to be coming back into fashion now??
 
Just wondered.


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Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:01am
adam..it's obvious..the only folks foolish enough to want boxes that size are the same kind of people that love big stacks of scoops....


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:03am
i wouldnt say foolish, id like some boxes that sort of size if i had transport etc, the efficiency would be amazing compared to any other design capable of playing that frequency range.....
imagine doing something like that [maybey less tall and more wide to allow kicks and mid his] but with a front loaded horn, 25hz<80hz watt for watt it must be untouchable ???


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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:17am
I'd be joining you in line if I had transport, money etc... I count myself among the foolish, in fact, I think I'm a bad case....
Was just saying scoopy folks are ba~~ard big box folks...


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:20am
aha yes now i get what you mean, in that case i am the fool on the hill, 5 metre horn? yes please!!!

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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:32am
Originally posted by darkmatter darkmatter wrote:

LOL waffles, want a spade mate?
 


A shovel?




Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:39am
Don't really know why it turned out to be a rear loaded design. A part of me loves the what scoops do to some kinds of music and I just wanted to see how far you could take it.
 
Here's the plot for one horn, which is 4 scoops or 8 sections.
 
 
The average sensitivity is 109.5dB and the f3 is 25Hz. Because of the steep rolloff its's flat from 27Hz. Overall response is 25Hz to 121Hz +/- 3dB.
 
I'm getting 4.7dB gain with 4 horns over a single horn, which is good. 6dB is the theoretical gain when jumping from 1 to 4 cabinets, but as djk rightly points out, cabs made from wood will never exhibit a true 6dB gain. 4.7dB is around as good as it gets and it's a sign that the constrution and bracing are working well.
 
In band max continuous output is 145dB with peaks of 151dB at 1 meter. Output readings measured with 6000 watts input, which is 1500 watts to each driver.
 
 


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:42am
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15822_5-douchebag-behaviors-explained-by-science.html - http://www.cracked.com/article_15822_5-douchebag-behaviors-explained-by-science.html
 
Nice to see some of you got the joke.
 
@wafflesomd,
 
f**k off you c**t.
 
Please note that all the people in the above link about douchbags look american. Now that is funny.
1 Scotsman, 1 Ausi, and the rest are septic tanks....... Yanks!!
 
the word Douchbag comes from America I believe
 
we just use the word TWAT! which is a far better word LOL 


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:44am
Nice Rog, I want to hear this
 
may have to come see you soon


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:56am
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15822_5-douchebag-behaviors-explained-by-science.html - http://www.cracked.com/article_15822_5-douchebag-behaviors-explained-by-science.html
 
Nice to see some of you got the joke.
 
@wafflesomd,
 
f**k off you c**t.
 
Please note that all the people in the above link about douchbags look american. Now that is funny.


"Look" American, are you serious?  What do them looking American have to do with me calling you a douche bag?  +5 for attacking a countries people with ignorant views, and not the actual person who insulted you.

You had to source Cracked for something....




Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 4:30am
Rog!!!!! damn!!!!!! Thats sick to look at!!!
Show us a quick sketch how it looks like inside please.

Haha, Sorry waffleguy, should have thought twice before commenting on the king.


Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 4:51am
Originally posted by djstefanos djstefanos wrote:

Rog!!!!! damn!!!!!! Thats sick to look at!!!
Show us a quick sketch how it looks like inside please.

Haha, Sorry waffleguy, should have thought twice before commenting on the king.


I should have?  Ok...

About the cabinets.

Are these really practical, at all?


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 4:52am
"You had to source Cracked for something...."
 
Hey, you been somkin that acid again mate.
 
Anyway,
 
Back to the world where we can all put coherent sentences together............
 
Just took a reading from the center on the Rubic horn. Test mic distance was 1 meter.
Weighting is linear (4Hz to 50KHz) and response was peak, 50ms rise time constant. Playing some Irration style tunes with some Infinite amps driving the stack.
 
 
Its ok standing within 3 meters untill a frequency above 60Hz comes in, then it hurts. It feels like when you accidentally hit your head on something really hard and it kind of phases you out for about 3 seconds. But its like that happening all the time so you just have to move away, or should I say stagger away as its like being in a fight with Tyson when those upper bass notes start playing. Other than being attacked above 60Hz, below 60 is very comfortable. Tracks with 25 to 30Hz just move you back and fourth in time with the oscillations.
 
Quick sketches of the inside can only happen in another life. Ha ha.
 


Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 4:53am
well, they are. easy to assemble.


please post more pics!!


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 4:55am
Originally posted by wafflesomd wafflesomd wrote:

Originally posted by djstefanos djstefanos wrote:

Rog!!!!! damn!!!!!! Thats sick to look at!!!
Show us a quick sketch how it looks like inside please.

Haha, Sorry waffleguy, should have thought twice before commenting on the king.


I should have?  Ok...

About the cabinets.

Are these really practical, at all.  Considering the 1850 isn't far from one of them, according to the specs on the plans.
 
You're right, there's not really much point in the Rubic horn when you can get a sensitivity of 109dB at 25Hz from 4 x 1850 horns.


Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 4:57am
so what are you going to use them for now?

btw, you can get more sensitivity with a billfitzmaurice Tuba 36


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 6:03am
Don't know what I'll do with them Stef. Might just keep a set for myself and come out to play once in a while. I've built some matching amps for the Rubic horns too. The Infinite 10's do 5000 watts per side into 4 ohms, meaning each driver gets 2500 watts. A compleate stack of 2 horns would then get 20,000 watts.
 
Here's how one horn looks when it's not joined up.
 
 
Think thats enough info and pics about Rubic now.
 


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 9:47am
I like your SPL meter.
 
I tried metering a pair of my X1s at the weekend.. just for fun - as you do... but my realistic / tandy meter just maxes out straight away (129dbc)... even a few meters back... boring :(


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Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 10:30am
Too bad we can't always count on a concrete corner being handy. I was fooling around in Hornresp with the 15" version of the Growler woofer and came up with this for a pair in 0.5Pi (corner) loading. Note that the mouth on each cabinet is only about 22.5" square!
 


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djk


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 10:34am
Hi Rog, All good stuff, especially the response. For me, One question arises. If you are going to carry 8 cabs, My own leanings would be to have a speaker in each. I know this means that you would have 8 speakers with shorter horns rather than 4 with long ones. So forgetting about weight and cost. How would you see the difference in performance. In other words, how would you best sell the idea to customers.

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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 10:37am

Not sure you'd like the price tag of the meter Adam, you could buy quite a nice car and have change with what that costs. It does logging as well so you can use it for EH measurements. In fact its one better than that as it a Lab spec machine and can be used to calibrate the meters used by the EH and other scientific institutes. You have type 2 which is pro level but cannot be used for noise nuisance readings, then type 1 which can be used for all noise related probelms and has accountablity. Then lab spec which is a refrance type meter used for very accurate measurements or for calibrating type 1 calibrators. So what calibrator do I have to calibrate the calibrator that calibrates the calibraters. I'm confused now.

Yeah, the words Tandy and professional measurements don't really sit too comfortable do they.


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 10:57am
Yep, corners are you're best friend when it comes to bass. Thought you had some portable corners djk. But have you found that corner loading only seems to extenuate the response/level when you are in other corners or within a 1/4 wavelength of a boundary, i.e. a wall. To me corner loading works if you have the sofa against one wall or in another corner. When you move into the middle of the room all the bass seems to disapear when compared to having your bass cabs playing 1/4 space half way along one wall. It can be a real problem on dance floors convining everyone that they need to dance in one corner ha ha.
 
Tony, you can never convince people that more isn't better. But more length is better than the physical amount of drivers you have. There's not way of getting away from it. You could do the same size stack with very low resonance woofers and tune them really low in ported cabs, but even this would give the same output or less than a proper horn with long enough horn and big enough mouth. I'm getting 54% efficiency around 30Hz, compare that with around 3 to 4% for a really good reflex design. Yeah you can have lots more of them in the same space, but it still will never be 54% as a direct radiating system lacks any kind of impeadance matching with the air. You also can't use lots of smaller and shorter horns. If the horn length is less than my 5 meters then you will not be hitting 25Hz. You can think you are by having loads of shorter horns and using the sealed box properties that occur under the low cutoff of the horn, but you are still back to sealed box efficiency which is low.
 
You want a horn to make it loud and you must have a long one to make it low. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone as I don't need too, but if I was then yes it would be hard to convince anyone of why they should want it. i would get round that by standing them infront of one horn and playing it. I think most would be converted then.
 


Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:02am
Well.. it was £20 on ebay.. I wasn't expecting massive acuracy... more of a toy than a tool.
 
Overall tho, because the Tandy meters are sooo wide spread you would be suprised how much support they have.. and that includes calibration maps for good plotting software.
 
I'm just gutted I can't take cool photos with massive SPL readings on the screen, I know I can measure further back and work out the SPL @ 1m but it doesn't make such a good photo does it :(


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Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:06am
Rog... I was just wondering on the subject of corner loading / walls etc...
 
At some point does a wall of speakers start acting as a... umm.. wall??
 
Take my stack for example... 4 X1s, 12 HDs... pretty large and wall like.. does the sheer size of the stack play a part in the expected freq plot, or is this taken into account by the +3db / +6db rule?
 
At a guess.. if the wall was longer than the lowest wavelength in passband then it would right?


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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:10am
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

Yep, corners are you're best friend when it comes to bass. Thought you had some portable corners djk.
LOLLOLLOL

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:35am
Well rog, at the end of the day, it's the end result that counts and for me it doesn't matter how you get there. At least if you can demonstrate and prove your point, that should be convincing enough.

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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:36am
At the end of the day...it gets dark

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:45am
And I better get off this infernal machine and do some work before darkness descends.

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Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:59am

Ha ha,

You might laugh but he has. Get him to post up some pics of some of his stuff, its radical.
 
Yes Adam, a wall like a floor will reinforce the output as you now have the speaker and another virtual speaker or mirror of the speakers output adding to it. This is providing the speaker is close enough to couple in wavelength terms to the adjacent floor or wall. So a horn that requires a mouth of 5000 sq cm to have a certain low cutoff can have this figure halved if its in contact with the floor or quatered if its on the floor and against one wall. Hence half space, quater space and so on. So at what point does a stack of speakers all combining in phase change from one operating condidtion to another. Well, if the stack is on the floor then its in half space, but I'm not convinced the more cabs you add the more it operates like it was in quater space. It will happen to a certain extent but I think you still have a new larger speaker with a longer horn in half space. I never automatically change from half space to quater space or eighth space if I model moe than one speaker. For me its just a larger speaker with a longer horn and bigger mough if its a horn. Its still in half space. Likewise I alwyas model mid tops in free space even if there are 8 of them. Its still a speaker, all be it a large one thats in free space. Its a difficult question to answer and I have a couple of times on here before, but a stack of speakers operating condidtions don't change as much as you think unless you go very big. The bigger the speaker and the larger its radiating surface is the less it starts to obey the inverse square law. Why, well you are more likely to be in the near field of a sound source if it is marginally larger than you are. Its like you are physically nearer and will also visually look like this as the stack grows.
 
Its a dabte that still continues. I think you still have a larger speaker with increased coupling to the floor, a longer horn path and bigger mouth if using horns and the increase in efficiency that brings, but still working in the same space. You can also add any effects brought about via any decrease on the inverse square law if the stack is large enough. But one thing thats doesn't happen is that you automatically add 6dB everytime you double the amount of speakers. You will get 3dB from double the amp power as a result of the lower impeadance and only if the amp delivers twice the output into the new lower load, but you can never get 3dB from a doubling of sensitivity. So be careful when knowing the output of one cab and then addding 6dB everytime you double the amout to work out the new combined output. It will never be as much as you expect due to cabinet losses which destructively combine to reduce the sensitivity and the fact that most amps don't double there output into half the impedance.
 


Posted By: J Nine Bar
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 12:04pm

Rog, seriously mental bass stack, love it.



Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

but you can't really compare 4, 8 or even 16 scoops against the Rubic, as no matter how many normal scoops you have you will never start hitting to below 35Hz. It takes a really long horn with big enough mouth to hit 35hz and below, let alone 25Hz.


Still think I would prefer 8x V1200/Turbomax loaded scoops, driven with 8k though Rog.

Each stack of 4x would definetly give the illusion of hitting 35hz, if crossed into kick bins right.Wink




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"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: xlogic
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

The Infinite 10's do 5000 watts per side into 4 ohms, 
 

Did someone mention infinite 10Shocked


Posted By: xlogic
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 12:47pm
btw Rog you look a bit like Tim Westwood in that pic YEAH BABY!


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by J Nine Bar J Nine Bar wrote:

Rog, seriously mental bass stack, love it.

 
Thanks Jeff,
 
It means a lot coming from someone with a seriously mental bass stack, ha ha.
 
I know what you mean Lev, 8 normal scoops pushed hard might have it above 40Hz, but if that 25Hz to 35Hz range is ya thing then normal scoops don't cut it. Its also really refreshing listening to 35Hz from a stack that can do 25Hz. Its fun to do 100 mph in a mini that is only surpposed tp do 90 mpm, in fact some would clam that its the only way to do 100 mph. But you don't know what you're missing when you do a 100 mph in a car like a Lamborghini that can do 200 mph. The thought of going any speed you want at any place is very addictive, its why I have a 180 BHP bike and weigh less than 55Kg. Nothing is ever going to touch me and it means I can relax and take time out from the game to see whats really happeing in the world.
 


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by xlogic xlogic wrote:

btw Rog you look a bit like Tim Westwood in that pic YEAH BABY!
 
Yeah,
 
I thought more like a douche bagged version of Ali G........


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:34pm
You should talk to your PR department. Although I guess that will be a conversation with yourself. Any way enough of that. Are you going to produce a section to go above. an appropriate one that is. Reason for asking is that under my new structure. I am an equipment specifier. So starting to take notice of other stuff for installs that I'm doing.

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Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 1:44pm
Do you use your void cnc machines to build them?


Posted By: Jochen
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:18pm
very impressive, i definitely would like to hear that stack in action.
For mid-top a sh*t load of stasys 3 mkII i suppose?


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I like my sugar with coffee and cream


Posted By: Contour
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:36pm
This Rubic design is an impressive horn!
 
A few years ago we designed a similar concept (M-horn, see http://www.speakerstore.nl - www.speakerstore.nl ) but this was a folded frontloaded horn instead of rearloaded. For people who have little money but enough time this is an excellent solution to get much bass for little money. We also chose to cut the 18" horn in two modules for easy of transportation.
 
As far as I know only two people did build our M-horn (they were impressed with the loud deep bass) the main problem is no one was able to find the perfect solution on how to couple both parts of the horn. And how to prevent air leaks and rattles when the modules are on top of each other.
 
Best regards,
 
Walt


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 2:45pm
Has anyone looked at the flight case extrusion for lids etc but with rubber/foam gasket built in?  Combined with some heavy duty butterfly catches I would have thought they'd make a pretty solid seal.


Posted By: biotec
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 3:06pm

I think this is the kind of catch mykey was going on about. Stedall is a company I get a lot of trailer/truck body harware from. For tough hinges and handles they are perfect.

Here is a recessed catch for dropside bodies on trucks, it is about 33cm long so far bigger than a standard catch. it is 22mm deep so would need some modifications if 18mm ply was used:

 
product 10:
http://217.72.186.4/~steda12954/acatalog/1.10.pdf - http://217.72.186.4/~steda12954/acatalog/1.10.pdf


Posted By: Tenacious lee
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 7:59pm
A power to weight ratio of 3,373bhp !


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The lottery is for people who can't do maths.


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 8:07pm
We will now discover that loads of people have made clip on horns, but nothing seems to have broken through commercially. However I did a 3 x 18 cab with bolt on horn. The butterflys did hold it together ok. But any kind of seal on the edges was hard to protect. Being large cabs, you couldn't help bashing them about a bit.

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Posted By: Stumbler
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 10:32pm
clip on horns... what about the Funktion one infrahorn?  never heard it, sure would like to ! 

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not as straight forward as i first imagined..


Posted By: Tumble
Date Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:04pm
so are the designs going to be available for DIYers? or is the a new void product?

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Retox


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 4:51am
Originally posted by biotec biotec wrote:

I think this is the kind of catch mykey was going on about. Stedall is a company I get a lot of trailer/truck body harware from. For tough hinges and handles they are perfect.

Here is a recessed catch for dropside bodies on trucks, it is about 33cm long so far bigger than a standard catch. it is 22mm deep so would need some modifications if 18mm ply was used:

 
product 10:
http://217.72.186.4/~steda12954/acatalog/1.10.pdf - http://217.72.186.4/~steda12954/acatalog/1.10.pdf
thats the 0ne Biotec, spot onWink

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 9:57am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

You should talk to your PR department. Although I guess that will be a conversation with yourself. Any way enough of that. Are you going to produce a section to go above. an appropriate one that is. Reason for asking is that under my new structure. I am an equipment specifier. So starting to take notice of other stuff for installs that I'm doing.
 
PR Tony. What ever makes you think that.
 
More like ADD, attention deficit disorder, ha ha.
 
"Do you use your void cnc machines to build them?"
 
No, I'm not based where Void cabs are made. I have a team of carpenters to help me with prototypes and we built them at the R&D lab.
 
Walt, you're M Horn does look good, can't believe more people have not built it. Whats the horn length, I'm guessing around 3.4 meters.
 
Yep thats a nice catch Nick, but would have problems because of the depth. Could build the cab from 25 mm ply, but the idea was to keep weight down.
 
"A power to weight ratio of 3,373bhp !"
 
Did you take the bikes weight into concideration when you did the calculation. I've posted pics of me on my honda f1 before so won't bore you again. Not quit the low end power as the R1, but screams from 10K.
 
"so are the designs going to be available for DIYers? or is the a new void product? "
 
Don't know what it will be yet. I can't see much call for it in the professional arena apart from maybe those 4d cinemas or theme parks rides. But theres no point in having a transportable horn for those applications. I can't think of an application for a 25Hz portable horn. It plays far to low for live band work, so maybe it's only suitable for small wedding DJ's.

 


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:28am
"Originally posted by Rog Mogale

Yep, corners are you're best friend when it comes to bass. Thought you had some portable corners djk."
 
Yes, but braced 5/8" ply only adds above 50hz or so.
 
Your boxes must be really solid if you're getting 4.7dB instead of the predicted 6dB of gain.
 
Nothing exceeds like excess (what do you do for the encore now Rog?)!


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djk


Posted By: Stumbler
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:40am
why cant i see the picture with Rog in it? has it been taken down.  Not that i'm interested in his trainers or owt... Smile

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not as straight forward as i first imagined..


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Stumbler Stumbler wrote:

why cant i see the picture with Rog in it? has it been taken down.  Not that i'm interested in his trainers or owt... Smile


They still work for me, hosted here on the speakerplans site so should work as long as you can access the forums.


Posted By: Strange Daze
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 12:46pm
looking good Rog :)


Posted By: rezsbc
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

It plays far to low for live band work, so maybe it's only suitable for small wedding DJ's.
 
 
Jaysus.... if I ever make an honest woman of my girlfriend I will definitely be giving you a call re: PA hire Mr. Mogale!!!
 
Looks wicked big up.


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Rog Mogale Rog Mogale wrote:

Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

You should talk to your PR department. Although I guess that will be a conversation with yourself. Any way enough of that. Are you going to produce a section to go above. an appropriate one that is. Reason for asking is that under my new structure. I am an equipment specifier. So starting to take notice of other stuff for installs that I'm doing.

 

PR Tony. What ever makes you think that.

 

More like ADD, attention deficit disorder, ha ha.

 

"Do you use your void cnc machines to build them?"

 

No, I'm not based where Void cabs are made. I have a team of carpenters to help me with prototypes and we built them at the R&D lab.

 

Walt, you're M Horn does look good, can't believe more people have not built it. Whats the horn length, I'm guessing around 3.4 meters.

 

Yep thats a nice catch Nick, but would have problems because of the depth. Could build the cab from 25 mm ply, but the idea was to keep weight down.

 

"A power to weight ratio of 3,373bhp !"

 

Did you take the bikes weight into concideration when you did the calculation. I've posted pics of me on my honda f1 before so won't bore you again. Not quit the low end power as the R1, but screams from 10K.

 

"so are the designs going to be available for DIYers? or is the a new void product? "

 

Don't know what it will be yet. I can't see much call for it in the professional arena apart from maybe those 4d cinemas or theme parks rides. But theres no point in having a transportable horn for those applications. I can't think of an application for a 25Hz portable horn. It plays far to low for live band work, so maybe it's only suitable for small wedding DJ's.

 


I say do a folded horn version called the Rubix horn and make it like a giant rubics cube

Or do the exact opposite - as you say not a lot of people would have cause to use something that big for anything but an outdoor mobile theatre.

So what about something void doesnt have on its books yet - something really useable and compact

Like an alternative to the Mackie SRM450s but ya know.... something thats actually good.

Stu

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All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches


Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by Disco Stu Disco Stu wrote:




I say do a folded horn version called the Rubix horn and make it like a giant rubics cube


Stu


For most of us just modelling and designing a multi module cab would be strenuous enough, without having to design it so you could move all the parts aroound to make each side a specific colour....


Posted By: Disco Stu
Date Posted: 27 February 2008 at 7:16pm
If Rog is crazy enough to do the Rubic... anything is possible.

-------------
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches



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