cerwin vega afterburners
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Other plans
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about all the other plans
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15066
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 11:31pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: cerwin vega afterburners
Posted By: justamadman
Subject: cerwin vega afterburners
Date Posted: 02 March 2008 at 4:35pm
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anyone used them? are they worth the money? ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Replies:
Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 1:33am
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According to posts Ive seen around here,they seem to have a reputation for 60hz kick,perhaps useful for house djs. Youl notice that here people prefer wsx,labhorns, and the like.Or even CV horns with upgraded drivers. You also see posts around,where theyve used a Budget 350w 4mm Xmax driver. Depends how much you have to pay for them. Listen to it first with familiar music |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 12:08pm
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i have done,,,,,, my mates have 12 of the f**kers............... and i think they sound awful. wondering what everyone else thinks.
700 quid seems steep when you think about what you can get from some diy builds ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 12:59pm
Must be originals with original drivers. I would think real soon, ply copies will be worth more than originals. We really need to bench test ply copy loaded with V18-1000/PD186. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
justamadman wrote:Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 6:16pm
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yeah i though about the that, wouldn't there be some issue with the fact that the access panel aids cooling
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 9:33pm
if the original driver is only ~350w RMS and you install a v18 1000 You wont need that so much  I think the distorted sound is a continuation of home hifi chipboard boom? |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:12pm
 Heres one I drew up, with slight mods.. moved the access panel round to the top as I never liked the idea of removable front flare sections. I doubled up the top panel and access panel to brace it up as I can't put bracing between baffle and top panel. This makes the entire thing about a cm deeper and 2 longer, negligible but might get you an extra 0.5 Hz in a stack of 8...hehe I'm thinking of building a couple for an install that doesn't need a lot of low end to see how they go, simple enough build and have noted that the various boxes with this kind of layout all seem to do the job nicely.. the Selenium, Some of the ASS designs etc. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 04 March 2008 at 10:52pm
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looks interesting....... might have to build a couple.
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: heinrich
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:33am
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but.........if i am not wrong there is a rectangular slot just like the WSX in front of the driver... well,........the CAD really looks tasty!........... @jeth, can you share a copy of your CAD drawings........?  ------------- .....power is nothing without control.... |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:40am
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That is a superb drawing. The front chamber looks nice and large, and I'm sure that cab has 6ft horn. So get the throat right, and that baby should do approx 45hz with V18-1000/186. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 12:04pm
the original driver is 750w ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:30pm
RMS?What driver is it? |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 2:27pm
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yep 750w rms. thats why i thought there might be issues with a beefier driver..... if it needs a heat sink for the original I'd imagine it would get pretty hot in there with a void or an 1850. the earthquakes are 500w, not sure where you got 350 from??? ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 4:43pm
| Though the chamber is not notably smaller than other horns in which such drivers are used to good effect. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 8:09pm
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point taken...... need to build some
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 8:43pm
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Give me a little while and I'll try to work out how to put everything together in a downloadable file, I already have all the panels drawn up with dimensions and will do a side profile with dimensions for panel placement also. I didn't include the slot throat as I haven't seen definitive dimensions, just speculations. I will actually be using the bin without the slot throat, as they will be loaded with selenium drivers...if you look at the selenium bin (the big 2x18") it is basically this layout but with the full driver area loading straight into the first flare section so should work ok with these drivers which are recommended in that design. Not going to be such an efficient box, but doesn't need to be for the application in question. |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 8:56pm
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The 1850Horn has a pissy small chamber. Haven't heard about problems there.... ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 1:57am
Me either. Just a number in brain. I dont think it 'needs' a heatsink - it just helps abusers from blowing it. |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 2:01am
| And it's a nice gimmick...aluminium panelled bassbins to match your aluminum styled domestic electronics... |
Posted By: rottbull
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 4:09pm
| have you got the plan |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 4:35pm
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well up for building some...... off you hop mr rocker.......... get the pencils out ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 6:14pm
| Got some free time this w/e ...though plans are here on the forum already if you can't wait that long, they're in one of threebees posts, my plan has a few mods. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 10:29pm
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safe m8, im after your plans..... are plans an adaption of the afterburner or the earthquakes????
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 10:44pm
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Afterburner I think..though I'm never too sure which is which what with similar model numbers etc.. It's based on the big one, thats 900mm+ deep. Might even get a bit of it done this afternoon... |
Posted By: heinrich
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 1:02am
 ....------------- .....power is nothing without control.... |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 1:18am
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Ok, here's most of it... All panels individually drawn out with dimensions, and an overall plan of panel placement.. Forgot I need to draw up a key so you know which is panel A, B etc... The dimensions are what sketchup gave me as I drew it out, so I advise anyone using them to draw it up on a side panel before making the rest of the cuts. Just that sketchup isn't really a proper cad program so I'm a bit dubious of the accuracy. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/V181Dimensions.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/AccessPanelOuterDim.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/BaffleAVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/BaffleBVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/BottomCornerAngle.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/BottomTriangleSupport.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/BraceHorizontal.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/BraceVertical.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/PanelAVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/PanelBVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/PanelCVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/PanelDVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/PanelEVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/RearBrace.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/SidePanelVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/TopInnerPanelVA181.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/TopOuterA.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/TopOuterB.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/TopPanelOuterA.jpg">  http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jethdub/TriangleSupportVA181.jpg">  I previously forgot to mention that I drew this box with the 500mm internal width that I will use, simple enough to cut all your panels with the extra 100mm if you want it full width. You would then also need to change the top panels, the outer layer is two sections on mine with the access panel between, if making box wider you would need to make one large peice with the access panel cut out. I think the back panel is missing from the drawings, but you can work that out... |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 3:26pm
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noice ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 11:31pm
| The Aluminium "heatsink" does not work as a heatsink its only there for cosmetic and marketing reasons(in other words--bullsh-t) its not even close to the drivers magnet which is not very large at all and the cone is really light and flimsy---in fact the driver looks like it could be a real cheap B+C OEM unit or even a cheap Chinese B+C clone--on top of all this the performance is terrible--one of Tonys ASS BS 600 will comfortably blow one of the Vegas away and even a Turbosound TSE118 with a 300 watt driver will outperform it and is less than half the size of the Afterburner-----Having said all that, I would still like to hear this cabinet with a hefty driver like a PD 1850 or a Void inside it as I reckon that it could be pretty good, but really, you might just as well build an 1850 or 186 cabinet that you already know works well--cheers--John. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 11:48pm
If designers thought like that, it would have all stopped at reflex cabs, and 8" woofers. The Vega has larger chamber, longer horn, and I'm sure it has larger horn mouth. This means 45hz with right driver, and maybe lower, with High Xmax driver like Turbomax. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 1:21am
hah - its not even connected to the driver.The problem is the heat transfer from the VC to the air - Having a metal plate to sink heat from the air inside the box...I wouldnt expect much:P Its like removing the spare tyre from your HUMMER to save on fuel consumption. see waynes lab12 heatsink. http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpeakers/messages/17786.html - http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpeakers/messages/17786.html
id expect an 1850 to have similar sort of response and cutoff.The 90* corners are better for the upper cutoff - but whos counting/measuring. |
Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 4:23pm
Yes the Vega has a bigger chamber but the horn length on an 1850 is longer and the horn mouth is the same size---hence my statement about building an 1850 instead of the Vega as it should also outperform the Vega if both boxes are loaded with the same driver
|
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 5:08pm
The horn length of the 1850 is 5.5ft approx, 1.67M. The horn length of the AB-36/SL36 is 6ft. If I am correct, Martin WSX = 7 ft Horn = 40hz cutoff CV AB36/SL36 = 6ft Horn = 45hz cutoff 1850 Horn = 5.5ft Horn = 50hz cutoff Have a look at the FAQ to confirm Rogs Short Horn lengths. The 1850 will have louder kick, but CV bin play much lower, due to larger chamber, like 186Horn, but better. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 6:43pm
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There has got to be a mistake somewhere with these horn lengths---if you put a cross section of both cabinets side by side then it is quite obvious that the path length of the 1850 is longer than the Afterburner and it also has a much better expansion rate than the Vega--in the 1850 design the driver chasis is also positioned right back against the top rear corner of the cabinet--in the Vega design the driver is positioned nearly halfway along the top of the cabinet as the magnet clears the quite acute angle of the "heatsink" by a considerable distance---as regards larger chamber improving performance then all you have to do is leave out the seperating piece on the 1850 thus bringing the sealed void part of the cabinet into play and thereby increasing the chamber size.
I am not saying that the Vega is a crap design as I stated earlier--I would like to listen to both cabinets loaded with the same High quality driver(PD1850 or Void) as the two designs are very similar in a lot of ways but I still think that the 1850 would have the edge on the Afterburner---And an Afterburner with its original factory fitted driver would not give you anywhere near what a PD loaded 1850 will.
Just in case there are any Afterburner owners watching this--a little tip is to periodically check that the eight tiny nuts that hold the driver in place are tight (use loctite or locking washers) as these vibrate loose in use and are very often not tightened enough on supply from the factory as well--we have finished up with one driver being held in place by only two nuts as you do not realise that they have fallen off the studs as they stick to the magnet--hence no rattles inside the cabinet to tell you what is happening.
|
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 6:57pm
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=hug&m=40882 - http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=hug&m=40882 High Efficiency Speaker AsylumRe: On apparent discrepancies between mouth size and reported response of bass horns213.1.200.139
In Reply to: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/40822.html - On apparent discrepancies between mouth size and reported response of bass horns posted by pk on January 11, 2003 at 03:04:56:
Well, I don’t know about the respected bit, but I’ll try and explain where I’m coming from with my horn designs. If you look at the 1850 horn on the speakerplans site you will see that the response does drop off like a rock below its cutoff point. The horn length is 1.59 meters or 62.59 inches. This equates to a full wavelength frequency of 216.77 Hz. So divide by 4 to get the quarter wavelength figure of 54.19 Hz. Again if you look at the plot you will see it fall sharply below 54 Hz, I also quote the cutoff frequency and state that the design is good down to 54 Hz. I also assume that at least 2 horns will be used in a stack and preferably 4. So I can’t see the problem or see why you could have a problem with this. If I quote that 2 horns have a cutoff of 30 Hz then I would be lying, but I don’t do this. Concerning the HD 15 horn, I do quote that the design will operate down to 52 Hz which for one cabinet would be impossible, but it does state that it must be used in a stack of at least 6 cabinets. When used as such the combined horn mouth and extra horn length that can be achieved by combining horns will give a new cutoff of 52 Hz. Also note that I still say you should use a reflex or bandpass type cabinet below these horns to get a fully extended bass response below 50 Hz. The 186 horn is meant to be used singly and with higher Qts drivers than a horn normally requires. This and an over sized rear chamber can give you a shallower rolloff below cutoff. This is depicted in the response, but you will also see that the cutoff has been raised in frequency from what the horn length dictates it should be. This is again due to the rear chamber being too large, a smaller rear chamber with a lower Qts driver will have a lower cutoff (or a cutoff that behaves predictably and is true to the 4/WL rule) and an over sized rear chamber will tend to shift the cutoff up in frequency and give a shallower rolloff, especially with drivers with a higher than recommended Qts and low BL. While not ideal I do prefer listening to horns with drivers with a higher than required Qts, good for the lounge but not good if you need a quick transient response and loads of SPL like at a concert. So I hope that has explained the figures behind the designs. I always assume that my designs will be used in multiples. This is large scale PA for big venues and no one is going to use just one small 15” horn in there PA system, well I hope not. So my mouth areas are calculated assuming that a minimum of 2 1850 horns will be used together and 6 of the HD 15 horns will be used in one stack. After liasing with David McBean, his wonderful Horn Response program (ver 5.60 and above) now lets you calculate the response for multiple horns. While not usable for everyone it’s really helpful in the PA world where multiples are the norm. each. Best wishes and happy resonating, Rog Mogale.------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 7:25pm
| Cerwin Vega Claim Frequency response down to 30hz on the Afterburner which is an absolute joke, so I certainly would not take any notice of their horn length claims. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 7:38pm
I think you need to do your homework mate. Cerwin Vega are the guy's who first produced 'C' type folded horn subs for the consumer market", and then everyone else copied them. So maybe you should take notice of their "horn lengths". "I think" The Vega website does say you need 6x cabs stacked to get 30hz. However, 1x AB36/SL36 ply copy, with decent driver, will easily get down to low 40's. Large chamber+High Xmax/High BL driver will assure this. There are numerous copies of the plan on this site, and suprise, suprise, the horn length works out to 6ft.  PM Three-Bee, He is the onsite Cerwin Vega guru, and will tell you everything else you need to know. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 09 March 2008 at 5:10am
------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 09 March 2008 at 7:00am
CV is just like any company where the marketing department have taken over - giving you a number '30hz' for the newbie spec hunters,with 'must use 6 or 8 bins' in small print. 30hz is a little optimistic even with 8 I would think.If the target market is who I think it is,I dont think people will be buying 8 at once to use in a cluster. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 09 March 2008 at 8:46am
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stick one of these in it and run, this driver is closest to the original CV drivers from days gone bye, it has the thick rubber surround like the original CV driver too
I heard this in a folded horn at a show and thought someone had turned on a wind turbine
http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare%201800sw-1.htm - http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare%201800sw-1.htm ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 March 2008 at 12:00pm
With the standard driver, 6x would probably get you 30hz, but not at usefull SPL. However, rebuild the cab using material other than the original kitchen towels, brace it up Tony A.S.S stylee, and put in manly driver, you'll easily get 40hz with 2x cabs per stack. Or maybe we should just "bore it out" to 6.5ft horn, increase horn mouth. and tune throat chamber to PD1850/V18-1000.  As this cab is so much easier to build than WSX. Could someone measure/indicate the indicate "actual" horn segments from plan? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 2:13am
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I don't know where you guys are getting 5.5ft from, I just did a rough calc of the 1850 horn and I make it close to 4.8ft it maybe less ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 2:18am
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=hug&m=40882 - http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=hug&m=40882 High Efficiency Speaker AsylumRe: On apparent discrepancies between mouth size and reported response of bass horns
In Reply to: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/40822.html - On apparent discrepancies between mouth size and reported response of bass horns posted by pk on January 11, 2003 at 03:04:56:
Well, I don’t know about the respected bit, but I’ll try and explain where I’m coming from with my horn designs. If you look at the 1850 horn on the speakerplans site you will see that the response does drop off like a rock below its cutoff point. The horn length is 1.59 meters or 62.59 inches. This equates to a full wavelength frequency of 216.77 Hz. So divide by 4 to get the quarter wavelength figure of 54.19 Hz. Again if you look at the plot you will see it fall sharply below 54 Hz, I also quote the cutoff frequency and state that the design is good down to 54 Hz. I also assume that at least 2 horns will be used in a stack and preferably 4. So I can’t see the problem or see why you could have a problem with this. If I quote that 2 horns have a cutoff of 30 Hz then I would be lying, but I don’t do this. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 4:34pm
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o.k guys enough banter, I'm going to have a have a crack later this week with 3 mates, I'll get the ply cut 1st and then do one each. going to borrow 4 1850s out of a mates scoops and run all 4 bins of 2 RMX 2450s bridged. just an experiment really, wanna see if moded ones will beat my mates originals, if they're any good we'll probably put them too use. pics and reports to follow ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 4:52pm
| Nice...don't forget to double check those measurements before you cut your ply...don't want to be held responsible if sketchup is a bit off. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 5:02pm
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will do, not much of a problem though. ahhhhh the perks of having friends at lumber companies
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 7:03pm
I would very strongly recommend you dont do that. RMX2450 does not like 4ohm bridge when dealing with prolonged sub heavy material. Will thermal eventually. If you just want to test them, bridge a couple of ep2500/RMX2450 and run 1x cab on each amp. (8 ohm bridge). That should provide DSB. (Dirty Stinking Bass) If you want to test all 4x, I would recommend a "Pro" big man amp, that can do "min", 1.6kwpc @ 4ohms. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 10:03pm
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how about an infi8 2 per channel???
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: tom smith
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 11:48pm
errrrrr, hope your paying for all this yourself because i'm not in a any position to contribute. as for the 1850s they've got rid and put in voids............ why don't you ask Mr. lockdown if you can use his infinite 8??? |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 10 March 2008 at 11:57pm
Assuming it is Inf8 mk2, Yes, 1220W+ per cab might just do it. Just seems more obscene, having an AB-36 driven by Behringer, delivering gut wrenching sub... ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 11 March 2008 at 12:20am
------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 11 March 2008 at 12:25am
ermmmm, SL36's lol and beefed up one at that ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: Big-G
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 3:08pm
Hi, i got some original ply sl36-pe's loaded with pd 186's and running off matrix str2400's (1 cab per channel) and they sound excellent, in a stack of 4 running test tones (old car audio cd  ) i can feel 40Hz from the other end of my garden witch is 30 meters away (my neighbours hate me). I think they are an awesome cabinet especially with a bit of drum and bass ------------- They know what is what but they don't know what is what they just strut what the  .
|
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 3:29pm
For all the unbelievers. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 3:41pm
| Big-G.. I know you have the SL rather than AB, but could you measure the throat slot for us?? |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 4:47pm
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hmmmmmmmm can see a new little speakerplans re-build project coming along."the Bastard horn" can't see the name catching on
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 6:03pm
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Any progress your end madman?? when you going to have something for us.. I might beat you to it at this rate... just waiting for my new saw. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 14 March 2008 at 1:19am
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not going to start until nxt week, didnt realise that my only carpentry capable friends flew to Amsterdam this morning so i'll be on my own with no transport...................... if you get there first rocker let us know how it goes
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: Big-G
Date Posted: 14 March 2008 at 2:25pm
Hi, there isnt a slot at all its just a hole the same size as the cone, hth, paul ------------- They know what is what but they don't know what is what they just strut what the .
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Posted By: login4
Date Posted: 14 March 2008 at 7:30pm
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i think the earthquake sounds good, i hope this "Bastard Bin" does happen, exciting stuff guys, keep us updated on progress ------------- CELTIC SUBSONIC SOUND SYSTEMS |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 14 March 2008 at 9:55pm
mmm.. what you saying to this Lev? Is it that the AB has a slot throat but the SL doesn't?? |
Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 3:22am
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sorry guys i cant explain it very well on english and i want to ask jethrocker something
hey jet en las medidas de el plan que pusiste en la parte de abajo el cajon mide 948 mm pero en la parte de arriba sumando,
121 +508+315=944 yo no entiendo donde estan los otros 4mm me puedes explicar porque esa diferencia de abajo con la de arriba yo supongo que debe ser la misma
o donde yo estoy equivocado?
------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 4:19am
From the CV website http://www.cerwinvega.com/vegabass.php - http://www.cerwinvega.com/vegabass.php  Looks like no slot to me... I guess this makes the throat area = driver Sd. Compression = 1:1, so will go low, but not as much SPL as some. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 8:17am
|
yep, and should suit slightly "mushier" drivers with higher VAS/lower BL than the true monster horn drivers.. It had been suggested that there was a slot throat but having modelled the drivers I want to use in these it seemed a better plan to go without. What is that on the top panel above the driver on that drawing? Looks like a port? Looking again I'm still not sure.. the blue cross hatched piece above the driver is presumably a central brace.. would seem odd if the bottom of it was overhanging across the driver opening not fixed to anything... I wonder if there is a slot throat as ThreeBee suggests that sits between that brace and the small vertical piece above left of driver that appears to go right across the cab. |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 8:24am
| Aperrado.. sorry, forgot to answer you in my last post. The 4 mm is actually the gap I left either side of the access panel. I didn't note it on the dimensions, sorry for the confusion. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 10:47am
top hat ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 12:52pm
Jethrocker, what's the actual size of the chamber? Did you move the access panel to the top ? Chamber looks kinda large, so even though looser mid BL drivers will sound really warm and flat, I reckon they'll eat up all their Xmax, way before 500W. For driver versatility, Would a slot throat with area of around 1100sq cm ( (45cm*25cm), do the trick? I personally prefer drivers with 10mm+ Xmax. I would still go with V18-1000, PD1850. However PD186, 18LW1400 should still sound good, just wont take as much power. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 1:08pm
even if it didn't, the sd would be larger I rekon than the first bend in the horn
all CV cabs have a partition type panel over the driver face to compensate for stress on the near closest cone edge to lid
if you look at the baffle hole it will look like a open smiling mouth shape, if this area is smaller than the area on your first bend of the horn, thats ya throat ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 1:13pm
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 1:28pm
http://imageshack.us"> ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 1:36pm
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OK. Where'd you get that from Mykey? Pic would be nice as well. I like the slot idea, so that you can use different drivers, and not worry so much about different driver circumferences. Would be nice if access panel is on top, and driver is front mounted, i.e dropped into the hole, then slot panel screwed on top. That way, easy to chnage drivers. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 1:58pm
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Tony (ASS) used to dfo this on some of his cabs as well
if you don't do this! and take the drivers out of the cab after a few months work, you can physicaly see one side of the cone lower than its oppsosite side, its too much stress for the nearest cone to lid/back edge ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 6:47pm
I had considered the idea of a "throat baffle" mounted over the driver..would be an easy way to experiment with different throat dimensions. Mykey.. so the smiley face would me mounted so the opening is towards the back of the cab with the "lip" protecting the edge of the cone that's towards the front? I did check, and at full width the horn profile at the first bend in the CV is not smaller oin area than Sd, though this is the case in the similar Selenium bins. As mentioned above, in my narrower version of CV this is also the case. Think that's everything.. |
Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 8:56pm
lol no problem ty for answer
------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: aperrado
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 9:05pm
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and i want to say it is a very good idea to put acces panel on top of cv box ------------- Im hard to learn but still asking |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 15 March 2008 at 10:35pm
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looks like this idea is getting slighlty removed from the afterburner, I'm liking it........... think we should carry on with this idea of contribution and see where it leads.......... i got some ply today at cost from jewsons so when everything is decided I'll crack on. I've spoken 2 various different friends and come up with an array of driver to test, these are 1) void V18-1000 2) Precision devices PD1850 3) * * * 186 4) P-audio SD18 5) Fane Colossus 18Xb 6) Eminence Kilomax got a Void Infinite 8 V.2 that we can borrow to run them 2 per channel as we'll be building 4. not sure about the kilomax though as i'd like a bit of headroom so if anyone has crown xti4000 or similar and would like to get involved with therest when theyre done,,,, gimme a shout ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 16 March 2008 at 12:47am
you could just do a straight pannel across, say about 1/3rd of the way, but cv's way makes more sense but a lot more working out
if your baffle is quite steep (not near to the lid) then you dont have to put so much area across the cone, so less than a 1/3rd in this case ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: heinrich
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:34am
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I'm on this bus...let's keep going....... let's go on jeth....keep going on..... more insights mykey.......... ------------- .....power is nothing without control.... |
Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 10:37am
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I need a drawing of
"so the smiley face would me mounted so the opening is towards the back of the cab with the "lip" protecting the edge of the cone that's towards the front?" ------------- djk |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 1:55pm
 havnt had a chance to read mykeys reasonings but i'd imagine its due to the fact the part of the driver at the front of the cab is under higher pressure due to rearward slope of the baffle???? Black is the "lip" white is open space sorry for the crude pic btw ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:20pm
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So, if your intended use is always in group of 4, can this plan be modified in order to have a smaller mouth (i.e 3600cm2) and longer horn (i.e 2,4m) and achieve nice results down to 40Hz without being too large?
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:26pm
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surley the cab would have to be deeper so the size difference is negligible seeing as how the modded design is only 50cm wide???
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:27pm
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nice to see this thread has got a bit of a following by the way ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:31pm
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Marjan.. with the horn starting at a slot throat rather than at the first bend the horn length a little over 2metres, and my version is narrowed to reduce the mouth, though 3600cm2 would be very small and would change the layout completely. I can't really see how the slot/smiley mouth throat reduces uneveness of loading as the cone would still see more pressure one side than the other, in fact the "throat baffle" will be closer to the driver than the top of the box would have been.. is it just better that the effective chamber wall opposite the driver is parallel with driver face rather than angles as it would be with the driver firing straight at the top panel..? (hope I explained that one ok) |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:32pm
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Idea was not to became bigger or smaller but to keep the overall volume of the cab while having longer horn. This way it will load the driver a few Hz lower and will have less displacement problems for the driver.
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:37pm
But doesn't the 186Horn already do this in groups of 4x? I'm sure this new "AB-36X" , will be very close in performance to the WSX, but due to slightly horter horn, less low end extension but higher SPL.I would expect very close to 40hz from just 2x cabs (with big man driver), which is entirely desirable. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:39pm
Yeah..just good to see that some folks are still wanting to talk about speakers... |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:42pm
My own meagre playing with hornresp, shows extending horn length does lower extension, but at the expense of increased excursion. Another possible side effect of increased horn length, might be reduced cab usability in smaller venues? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:01pm
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For smaller venues I have 12 single BR 18's :-) As the horn goes longer displacement increases but also goes lower. If it hits 8mm at 50Hz with 1.8m with 2,4m will hit 8mm at 40Hz. That is what HR is showing to me :-) ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:02pm
rocker which original plans are we working with????? did you mod the earthquakes (ab-36) or the afterburner (sl-36)? i'm not entirely sure whether the cabs are different or just the drivers. ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:04pm
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Don't think there is a huge difference..the afterburner (AB??) is deeper I believe, and it's those plans I started with.. the ones threebee posted. This thread is great, everytime I read a post and close it someone has updated... |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:07pm
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We are chatting here :-)
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:20pm
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yep...weather nice where you are?? ;-) |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:26pm
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no not really :-(
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:43pm
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lol, longest thread i've started, it's like having a child anyways, seeing as how this isn't going to be an expensive build , well at least not cash wise i'm up for playing with the slot throat idea. from what mykey is saying i believe now that the Alu access panel is on the front for a reason. as the brace in the throat and the "smiley" covers part of the driver then the only way to load it would be punisher style, from the underside of the baffle. if between us we come up with some ideas for the slot throat, we can maybe come up with designs for a "drop in" that could be bolted over the driver?????? ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 6:52pm
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just looked over your plans jeth, and seeing as how the baffle is doubled up, could rebate a significantly-larger-than-driver hole in top part of the baffle set up and then a hole with a rebated rim to accommodate the lip of the driver in the lower part that way the "drop in will be flush with baffle...... i'll draw it up in a bit ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 7:09pm
| yes...i get you.. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 7:14pm
 crude but hopefully explains. if the hole for the driver is cut so there is a lip around the edge as deep as the edge of the driver it will sit flush with the bottom baffle. if you do the same with the top driver but start the lip on the outside edge of the lower one rebate say 9mm deep and 10mm wide and cut the "drop in" to fit............ allen bolts can be placed in this 10mm rebate and sandwiched between baffle layers...... if i build it this way.... we can experiment with different slot throats ------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 7:58pm
| Should be fine..that or something similar.. |
Posted By: justamadman
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:16pm
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if it comes to it and a slot throat is decided upon and the correct one is found. how about putting the brace back in like the original and moving the access panels to the sides????? seems to me that if a 186 needs the amount of bracing that it does for the recommended drivers then this is goin to need fair bit to handle say a V18-1000......
------------- in front of the bass bins baby |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 10:02pm
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Well, for me it was a toss up between side access and top access... as these bins won't be taking a beefy driver or really being caned in my application I plumped for top access ats it's just the one panel. I doubled up the top/access panels to stiffen up that top end in the absence of bracing. For beefier drivers I think you're right, bracing in front of the cone and side access. |