what setup should i use?
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URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15865
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 11:31pm
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Topic: what setup should i use?
Posted By: robotnation
Subject: what setup should i use?
Date Posted: 01 April 2008 at 9:50pm
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I was curious what setup would get me a really large amount of crisp clear sound that doesnt honk, muffle, or distort randomly. My goal is to blast minimal techno and tech house and stuff in warehouses for like 300-500 people (weve only achieved that size party once on a farm with MANY sound systems combined poorly) and i wanted to build whatever would sound REALLY crisp and clean while while blaring at enormous SPLs. Crossing over is an issue too as midtops and subs are often weird as far as phasing and delay go. What is the best setup to use? i am stuck on x1 / hd15, 1850, or punishers but each seemed to have weird downsides i didnt understand. Does anyone know what is good for me to use? ------------- naw man |
Replies:
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 01 April 2008 at 11:26pm
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Perhaps your budget would be a good start :) Your music choice says to me that either of those systems could fit the bill, so it mostly comes down to cost in terms of amps, cabs, storage and transport. |
Posted By: tb_mike
Date Posted: 02 April 2008 at 1:10am
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$$$$?? Punisher + Xtro perhaps? (plus processing)Or DIY the parts seperately to physically align them. If your playing house/tekno you probably dont have much energy in the 30hz -50hz range,so the X1 isnt required. 1850s would need HD15s or similar above them,with MT122 perhaps? Almost as much work as an XTRO and no dedicated mid horn. |
Posted By: mylesound
Date Posted: 02 April 2008 at 4:11am
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why would 1850's need HD15's on top?
the MT can get down to 120 just fine or am i misstaken? |
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 02 April 2008 at 5:09am
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Yep it would appear from the plot I made of Mal X's MT 122 that 125Hz looks like the lower cutoff and a good place to cross over at. The upper end of the response would didctate a 900Hz crossover point from looking at the plot.
I think Mal's MT 122's used PD 123ER drivers but not sure. It wasn't a standard MT 122 layout though. He had the HF in a seperate cabinet, so it was just two 12" horns next to each other in a cabinet.
 I would EQ -3dB at 400Hz with a wide Q and -2.5dB at 185Hz with a narrow Q. It should make for a good plot and sound then. Intresting its nearly 90dB at 50Hz.
The plot was made at the first speakerplans shoot out in oct 2004.
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Posted By: josh
Date Posted: 02 April 2008 at 5:14am
| in theory what effect do you think having the two mid horns together as aposed to apart with the hf in the middle had on the response, good or bad? Perhaps the level at 50hz wouldnt have been as big with the speakers split apart? but what about in the usable area 125hz-900? |
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 02 April 2008 at 5:28am
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The upper end of the reponse will be louder if the horns are closer together because of coupling. Down at the low end a 20 to 30cm gap between horns isn't going to be very noticable as the wavelengths involved are biiger than the spacing.
I found a pic of the horns we measured. Its from Mal's system or should I say GHB hire's system.
 It make a really good noise that system. Those 4 X1's were lethal in that room.
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Posted By: AlfieDring
Date Posted: 02 April 2008 at 5:06pm
One way to keep your bottom end clean is to just use one type of bassbin. For the styles you have suggested a big pile of USB's or HD15's should work nicely. This is essentially the approach funktion1 have taken and they certainally seem to be succeeding at doing crisp loud dance music for the size of audience you suggested. What mid and top to use above that is a tricky one. The mt122 off this site is good but arguably could use something playing higher than the 2". You could look for a 3way mid-top like the xtro? (the xtro however is not a good choice for USB's or HD's as its low section is essentially doing the same job) What you want is sometihng like a 12" hornloaded then an 8" or 6" hornloaded and a 1" on a nice flare on top. As an example the stasys 3 is this kind of cab... http://www.voidaudio.com/product_detail.asp?id=17 Lastly to be pristine you need the following. 1) Loads of amplifier headroom on really good quality amplifiers 2) High quality processing eq etc 3) All cabling racking etc well thought out and excecuted 4) A good location to measure the rig, experiment with alignment, crossover points and EQ etc and lastly, DJ's that play good tunes, mix them well, and dont clip the mixer! Good luck :) Alf |
robotnation wrote:Posted By: robotnation
Date Posted: 04 April 2008 at 3:28pm
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i got high quality processesing, racks / cables, and VERY good djs, but amps and extremely large stacks of HDs are a bit expensive. I think i can afford one amp for subs, one amp for midtops, and about 4 bass bins (at this point in time HD sounds like my best bet). I also have a small amp for tweeters and two 2nd order passive crossovers built for 4k hz to crossover a 2" horn to a bullet tweeter or two (im not too worried about phasing i think ill be safe). My question is though: if i have two bullet tweeters and one 2" horn on the same passive crossover, do i run them at half the ohms, equal ohms, or double the ohms of the 2"? My other question is will 4 HDs get me enough low end for techno and house? I want to have a flat response down to about 50hz (something i dont have with my current setup sadly). Thanks for the help. ------------- naw man |
Posted By: robotnation
Date Posted: 04 April 2008 at 5:19pm
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is there a midtop that plays down to 80 hz for use with the X1? my ultimate goal is to have subs, mids, and little boxes with a 2" or so tweeter and a 1" tweeter (or two) together. What would i have to build to land myself response from 80 hz to about 600hz? I know most people start around 1k for 2" drivers which is why i asked (i have seen some 2" drivers on the web that go that low though so i think ill be safe). I would ------------- naw man |
Posted By: AlfieDring
Date Posted: 04 April 2008 at 6:03pm
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Well this is your problem: "REALLY crisp and clean while while blaring at enormous SPLs" + "for like 300-500 people" + "but amps and extremely large stacks of HDs are a bit expensive" You dont get excellent quality, extreme level AND low cost from anything in life. Im realising at the moment that boxes and drivers are relativly cheap and abundant compared to seriously proper amplifiers. I think your saying you want to build a system like this; 3 way active split into... 1 * bass amp into 4 bins (HD15 or similar) 1 * Mid amp into some standard mid-tops (is that right? dont you mean dedicated mids?) 1 * treble amp into tweeter boxes with 2" horn + bullets passivly crossed at 4khz? This isnt going to meet your stated design goal. 4HD's is simply not enough to deliver very large SPL to that size of audience and still be well within their operational range. They will hit power compression or excursion limits and distort the sound before your happy with the result, and this is assuming infinite amplifier headroom. Have a look at doms system: http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=domsystem Look at a group of 4HD's and imagine them in the warehouse infront of 500 people. You can SEE its wrong because it is! They might well give a good whack but when you say... "REALLY crisp and clean while while blaring at enormous SPLs" ... thats something else. Regarding low end extension of HD's im not sure how low a group of 4 drops. Dom says on the above link that 8 gets you down to 42 to id imagine 6 would do 50 by some margin. Im curious if this is just a gap in perceptions particularly when you say your current system dosent get down to 50Hz? What are you using now? And how do you want this new rig to compare to that? Alf |
Posted By: robotnation
Date Posted: 08 April 2008 at 10:20pm
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ill break the bank and invest in more equipment. Lets say i have unlimited budget and space and am only capable of building the x1 and hd15. How many of each of those two speakers will land me sound to play for 500+ people? Should i combine the two or just use a large stack of HD? The last thing is what should i run above an HD if i am incapable of constructing xtro / mt 102 /mt 122? The deciding factor is angles being at or under 45degrees. Thanks for the help. ------------- naw man |
Posted By: asaa00
Date Posted: 16 April 2009 at 10:35pm
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of your saw only does up to 45, cut with the wood along the other angle... then you can go up to 90.... if you need even biger just flip around and do the inverse... |
Posted By: Sibulus
Date Posted: 16 April 2009 at 10:58pm
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I would say, and im baised, Punisher and X-tro's, properly loaded, will hold a candle to any ''pro audio'' kit, and i've been told that by the people that run turbo/void/nca etc that i link with. it obviously aint gonna get you the rental value, but i run that with void amps, and i always feel confident. HOWEVER, and yes CAPITALS, if I had the cash to spend money on a rental only rig, I would probably get Turbo or FK1 second hand, or NCA (same price wise but not as big a name, imo) or Void new, as no matter how good your home build is, badge sells. Whats ya budget, aims, woodworking skills, and what kit do you already have. Also bare in mind, how many people do you have to help you out? * *I ask cos I've gone from 10+ crew to one man band in the space of a year, and its sh*t! good luck |
Posted By: Sounds_d_b
Date Posted: 16 April 2009 at 11:40pm
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I play tech house and minimal myself, and if you were going down the DIY route I would second the Punisher/X-Tro combo.
You dont really need the very low extension that X1's give, and 1850's dont provide the level of musicallity that the intricate bass/kick production in your chosen genres need. But the punisher will give you the fast kick and drop low enough in groups to capture that warm sub into driving kick combination For your top end, again you are looking for something that will offer clarity in the high mids and a very accurate top end, to take account of all that lovely bouncy knocking rythm, wet snare and those textured, reverbed hats - also, if it were me, I would also want to run stereo stacks to take full advantage of the depth of production. Both tech house and minimal are choc full of stereo panning and interplay between channels, so I would look for a box that is both bloody loud, and has good dispersion, in order to minimise the number of cabs you need each side to cover your audience. - Having heard the Xtro playing all sorts of techno at all sorts of levels, I would say they definately fit the bill. |
Posted By: minaximal
Date Posted: 17 April 2009 at 1:43am
if you guys are trying to help robotnation, you may notice the thread was started a year ago and he hasn't been on here in 2 and a half months .------------- Subs + Barges = :) http://www.metaacoustics.com" rel="nofollow - www.metaacoustics.com |
Posted By: asaa00
Date Posted: 17 April 2009 at 1:52am
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warehouse parties? do you live in los angeles? edit: -_-- |
Posted By: chilli
Date Posted: 17 April 2009 at 7:47am
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then again, theres the question, does the world need another soundsystem playing minimal and tech house..lol. bores the crap out of me for sure ------------- Money can't buy you happiness, but it can allow you to be miserable in comfort. |
Posted By: Sounds_d_b
Date Posted: 17 April 2009 at 9:57am
If we all listened to the same music, the world would be a grayer place.  Also, hadnt notced the date on the origional post  |