Martin Audio Line Array
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Forum Description: How Your Projects Perform
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=16938
Printed Date: 24 April 2024 at 11:18am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Martin Audio Line Array
Posted By: MattyTheRig
Subject: Martin Audio Line Array
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 11:37pm
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Right, i know its not one of my projects, but i have to say... Hats of to THE AUSTRALIAN PINK FLOYD SHOW....
Saw thier recent show at the nia, and the sound was second to none.... they used half the arena (which i think did the sound some MASSIVE favours) and i think the production was by Wigwam.
they were using martin line array, i think it was the w8lc... looked bigger than the w8lm... and they used d&b b2 subs and the sound was exceptional. far far better than many other shows i've seen at the nia (jeff wayne's war of the worlds, with a massively expensive system being a notably bad one).
Had a great night, good sound, in an arena! ------------- Sounds Good... |
Replies:
Posted By: CLsystems
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 2:19pm
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from my experience of wigwam they know what they are doing. |
Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 8:43am
| Longbow's probably the best sounding array out there. |
Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 9:41am
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Only time I've ever heard Longbow was about 16 boxes/side and it was awful.... However I'm willing to believe it was the people running it causing the issues! |
Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 3:12pm
| we have 16 Martin Audio W8L, 8 per side. Far better sounding cabinet than anything we have heard |
Posted By: Bespoke
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 3:35pm
THE AUSTRALIAN PINK FLOYD SHOW USE A LOT OF D&B LINE ARRAY WITH 6X B2 SUBS ALWAYS IN CENTER OF THE STAGE  ------------- Gone |
Posted By: spudmiester
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 6:40pm
| Heard Martin line array with Take That at Newcastle metro arena. Cant say I was that impressed. It was ok. |
Posted By: cnics
Date Posted: 02 September 2008 at 7:08pm
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I've heard longbow sound less than impressive, but then i've heard it sound second to none. The same applies to alot of systems, those we come to know as being fantastic, don't always sound good, this might be the room, the source material, or the operator, or a mixture of that and other things. It probably is my favourite array out there, whilst i'm not a line array fan, in situations where it IS the best option then it would be my first choice (when dealing with large arrays not mini stuff). The smaller the martin arrays get the less impressed i've been, the W8LC is a nice system but i just don't think it has the edge like the longbow. The W8LM i haven't been impressed with at all but i've not used it in many environments so can't really say too much about it. Rob ------------- Rob Beech - Technical Director - Cnics Audio |
Posted By: roborg
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 8:30am
Imagine how much better it'd sound if the sound engineers had speaker systems emulating point sources  Line arrays are great if u want good speech intelligibility everywhere but crap for music.------------- What I cannot create, I do not understand |
Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 2:03pm
Its crap for dance music. Play a live rock band on it, those tom toms and snares penetrate your face. |
roborg wrote:Posted By: cnics
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 6:31pm
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There's much much MUCH more to it than that. Line array has its place for speech, for music, for everything, but it's NOT the ideal system for more than i'd say a 1/10 of the jobs its used for. Laziness and not really knowing the right system to use and how to use it is why the other 9/10 of its uses. Additionally. Most of most arrays is acting like point source anyway. Just incredibly un-flexible point source. With only the top sections of the larger arrays really starting to act like a line array. That all said, the top sections of many point source arrays with 0 degree vertical splays use the same properties as the line arrays anyway. Effectively apart from the very top of the array, you get a point source array, without the benefits of a real point source array (true arrayability with flexibility in position in both the vertical AND horizontal planes). I can penetrate faces with any array :P ------------- Rob Beech - Technical Director - Cnics Audio |
Posted By: arxxx
Date Posted: 21 October 2008 at 1:28pm
| Planning to go for W8LC are they good or should i go for DAS AERO 38 |
Posted By: Strange Daze
Date Posted: 22 October 2008 at 8:39am
Id fully agree with 99% of that.....
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Posted By: Bodong
Date Posted: 20 December 2008 at 11:41pm
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Hi all, I made audio rental for weekend pay some bill not a big system but it grow lately I found a "non line array" system like Dynacord XA series, HK countour, KV2 VHD series really made me impress compare to many line array system, I am not sure about what made this happend is the operator or the system for example I heard XA series from 2 rental company the first one consistently sound better than the last one. if my budget allow I think KV2 VHD series will in my first list in for my investment the XA series second sorry line array will in my seventh. |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 1:18pm
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I need to do some tuning of w9lm boxes in a club, they sound awful with highs making the audience deaf, just wanted to hear if anyone has any suggestions / tricks for this particular box? Obviously i need to turn down the highs & do some eqing for room resonances. They have only 2 per side, but its ok I think as they have a low concrete ceiling and a concrete floor! Sounds awful until audience arrives. below this they have 6 wsx boxes per side! ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 1:26pm
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Do you mean a W8lm? the mini line array? If so, I too hired in a W8lm system for a small festival this year, we were astonished at the amount of EQ we had to apply to the system to get it sounding half decent. Incredibly harsh top end I thought. 10K was just plain dangerous!! Wasn't what I expected anyway. ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 1:43pm
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They are not designed to work as two per side, so no wonder the HF is bright. More boxes you add more low end boost you get, so it smooths out. There are dsp settings on the martin site. That can help i hope. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 1:47pm
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4 a side minimum I'd say, better with six.. ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 2:07pm
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six is about the minimum to get them work as line array anyway. small boxes. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 6:30pm
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Ah, the problem is that they don't couple low enough in pairs? manual says minimum 3 cs per side. I didn't put them, but I think they've thought it was the perfect splay, anyway they're really harsh! I'm afraid I'd have to add a lot of eq too:-( ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: GorillaAudio
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 6:49pm
if you only have 2 per side, I'd try and find a pair of Martin W8VDQ's. They are basically a W8LM and W8LMD glued together and designed just for this sort of '2 box a side' use and they sound amazing. From what you say though in regards to the space, id also try and find some drape or material to cover the back wall or something. |
Posted By: ruelectrical
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 7:17pm
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I firmly believe if you buy a rig with a Division A badge, designed by enginneers with years and pedigree of experience, if you set it up as manufacturers want it to be heard you aint going to go far wrong with any of the current line array systems, sound bloody great. Start to change things for the sake of it , your ears get confused and you forget how it should sound, Classic case at Pro this year, the smallest rig in the big room , Martin Audio ( yes I am potentially bias as I own a bit), sounded the sweetest, no eq just a nice clean audio source and system doing as designed
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Posted By: Shaun
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 7:18pm
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I saw Aussie pink floyd last year in Cardiff and the line array was their own, it was an Admson rig, quadraphonic and ssl desk, their sound engineer is the original pink floyd one, can't remember his name now but spent some time talking with him, very nice chap, and will have to say the sound was excellent ------------- No, it is not a line array it is some well stacked boxes............... |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 7:49pm
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ok, so basically you say he'd need 1 more per side or a W8DVQ to get a proper response, I'll check the dsp setiings, it should be manufacturer settings, but no doubt they sound harsh when pushed. My system sounded nice in there last weekend just as it came with my personal "factory settings", but I improved it, I always do as much as I can with the crossover, often I do eq and move the results to the xover if possible. ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 12:26am
Those boxes have DSP and EQ built into them... |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 12:43am
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LOL I was just wondering about compression drivers & distortion, 2" drivers in particular, how much more hearing damage do you get from this distrtion? I trust my feelings and it hurts, so it must be some. In my own system my 1" drivers doesn't reach full power until above 5 khz, it's the bms 4540nd with polyester diaphragm, they sound awesome. I always thought it was aluminium or something, but the secret appears to be polyester and of course tiny diaphragm & high sensivity. I just found this comment about the subject elsewhere on this forum:
Sadly the vast majority of speakers on the market are sonic weapons,
the manufacturers know they cause hearing damage but most don't care and
it shows in their R&D. Anything that's using a compression driver
below 5kHz will do it and sadly that means 9 out of 10 of the 2 way
systems in existence as soon as you push them up to an SPL which you
need for a disco/live type event they sound absolutely god awful. ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 8:58am
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Every system needs tuning to the space it's in. Manufacturer presets are only a stating point to achieve a flat response in an open space. May well sound ok in a big open field, but put the same rig with same settings in a concrete box.... It'll sound totally different. Almost every box ever designed has some sort of eq applied to it.. ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 9:44am
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Of course, and then again no:-) F1 aim to sound perfect (outside) with no eq. My system was far better from "factory" than the martin tops which should supposedly be factory set. To avoid the use of a lot eq inside the dispersion and damping have to be thought thru, this is number 1 way to avoid eq. ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: wires
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 11:21am
12 subs to 4 small tops? sounds just about right for balance... But all joking aside i don't know the room so if it works. imo definitely need at least 4 tops per side to start working as spec, the more the better. They seemed to sound quite disconnected with only a few boxes with harsh highs as described. One thing i noticed on the w8lm was the lack of, using the term lightly, 'throw'. Question is; Does the club actually need a line array with WSX? or was it put in just because? Again not knowing the room, but I would have thought a concrete building with low ceiling would benefit from point source boxes and a different choice of sub.
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Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 11:48am
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suggestions are welcome:-) I think the older point source 12/6.5/1 floodlight iike tops from martin would do better. But they probably need a quite high crossover, which again might lead to a more boomy sound from the subs. @WSX: do you think they have too much directivity or throw for the room? Would ported be better? I wouldn't mind putting other brand tops on top, I like mixed marriages, could be F1, xtro or something point source with a crossover no higher than 120hz ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 12:13pm
It 'throws' less because it's a wide dispersion box. With just two boxes a side you won't get coupling to compensate on the mid or low end, hence why the top end is still going strong and it sounds harsh. |
Posted By: wires
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 12:47pm
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oh don't get me wrong Toast, i mentioned exactly what you have just said when it was set up last time i heard some. It just struck me that it did drop off quite quickly compared to other similar cabs... not necessarily a bad thing as it helps keep the sound where you want it. I know the dispersion is one of the main attractions for this kind of box and it does it well, but in small rooms this can cause more problems. Especially on hard walls. @tv00; i don't know the layout so can't advise fully but sometimes less is definitely more. WSX are good cabs, but it does depend on the venue. All the energy can end up in the car park and not the dance floor.
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Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 1:19pm
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Still doesnt explain the 200hz honk that was there with three a side, can only imagine that gets worse as you add boxes! Just not a very flat response unfortunately. ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: wires
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 2:03pm
| Very true King. I can't remember the factory settings for these used but it did sound a bit off... still at least you got a result and some compliments out of it all :) |
Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 4:42pm
Yes the lighting did seem to go down well  ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 11:19pm
I think what the poster meant was to look at the settings for W8DVQ and use them on your two a side of W8LM. the DVQ is basically two LM a side, so if you use the settings for DVQ to set up your boxes it'll sound very close to martin's own settings for that size of array and i'm sure an awful lot better than the actual settings for W8LM when you only have two a side. k |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 11:47pm
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mistyped that, meant 1 more W8lm per side to get correct coupling ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |